If Ultimate Doom had used D2's assets (megawad ideas emerging!)

[Noiser]

A long time ago I made a mod (only for myself) using the three episodes, but I decided to match the monsters thematically:

EP1: Only Chaingunners
EP2: Only Revenants and Mancubi (because they are mech\helish, like Deimos itself)
EP3: Only Arch-Viles and Pain Elementals

The Arachnotrons only appears in E3M8, to give a nice touch to the final battle.

[scifista42]

@Noiser: Out of curiosity, how did you implement it? As a modified IWAD? As a PWAD for Doom 1 with D2 resources and modified maps? As a PWAD for Doom 2 containing modified D1 maps and MAPINFO to emulate an episodic structure? Or a PWAD requiring to be loaded with both IWADs and containing only some script to dynamically place D2 monsters into predefined places in D1 maps?

[Noiser]

Modified D1 IWAD (with the monsters resources) and then using ZDoom to play. As long as I know, only Zdoom-family and 3DGE can handle this in a easy way. You only need to unblock the IWAD first, using the Notepad or the Notepad++.

[DooM_RO]

Maybe this should be a community project.

Doom 1 the way Doom 2 did.

[scifista42]

^ If maps made for the project had to be original (as opposed to be based on D1 stock maps, due to /idgames rules), it might be... Like making a normal Doom 2 megawad? Mappers of individual non-boss maps wouldn't feel a difference, except that there'd be a different stock texture set and you couldn't use SSG and Megasphere if the project targetted non-ZDoom ports.

[VGamingJunkie]

So basically the same as DTWID with using a Doom 1 level design philosophy with the key difference being that it would be on the Doom 2 engine with its additions. I wonder what the rules are concerning the use of Ultimate Doom textures, since Doom 2 is missing a lot of them. Worst case scenario, there's always FreeDoom's imitations to fill in the gap.

[Xfing]

I would actually play the shit out of such a WAD:

- Doom 2 format of 30 levels, secret and super-secret level accessed from map 15
- Three episodes 10 maps each with original Doom 1 skies: techbase on Phobos, hellishly corrupted techbase on Deimos and then an actually hellish Hell like Inferno (as opposed to "hell on Earth" which was comparatively not very hellish at all). Alternatively a Thy Flesh Consumed episode could be included (hellish fortress on Earth), but that would mean 4x7 + 2 leftover maps, so it would probably flesh out the themes more if it were 3x10
- Arena-like boss maps akin to the original game in slots 10, 20 and 30, that is to say quick maps with no buildup to the final fight like maps 8 of every episode of map 7 of D2
- Maps created in the styles of McGee, Romero and Petersen on the assumption of no time constraints, so the quality could be higher
- Little to no D2-exclusive textures used. Textures and flats absent from doom2.wad reintroduced from the original game's wad (a practice growing more and more popular recently, I hear)
- Monster types limited between episodes as per our discussion in this thread, also no Megaspheres until late in the game

What do you think, would any of you play something like this?

[Deleted_Account]

Episode 01: Chaingunners would have been added to the monster roster.

Episode 02: Same monster line-up, but I would add Hell Knight, followed by
cybernetically augmented monsters such as the Revenant, Arachnatron and the
Mancubus as a way to foreshadow the Cyberdemon. Also, seeing as the Deimos base is being fused with elements of hell, I think it's fits nicely with the 'unholy union of metal and flesh'. I'd also introduce the super shotgun as a way to deal with the newly introduced monsters.

Episode 03: The Archvile and Pain Elemental appear. Also the Megasphere can be found in e3, although it's rare so you must really look for those secrets.

Episode 04: I'm not sure how to tackle this, but it would be much harder with the Doom II monsters added into the mix. Maybe have the second Spider Mastermind appear midway through the episode and have the Icon of Sin appear on the final map.

P.S.

Replace all music in Doom with Running From Evil.

[Voros]

Xfing said:

I would actually play the shit out of such a WAD:

- Doom 2 format of 30 levels, secret and super-secret level accessed from map 15
- Three episodes 10 maps each with original Doom 1 skies: techbase on Phobos, hellishly corrupted techbase on Deimos and then an actually hellish Hell like Inferno (as opposed to "hell on Earth" which was comparatively not very hellish at all). Alternatively a Thy Flesh Consumed episode could be included (hellish fortress on Earth), but that would mean 4x7 + 2 leftover maps, so it would probably flesh out the themes more if it were 3x10
- Arena-like boss maps akin to the original game in slots 10, 20 and 30, that is to say quick maps with no buildup to the final fight like maps 8 of every episode of map 7 of D2
- Maps created in the styles of McGee, Romero and Petersen on the assumption of no time constraints, so the quality could be higher
- Little to no D2-exclusive textures used. Textures and flats absent from doom2.wad reintroduced from the original game's wad (a practice growing more and more popular recently, I hear)
- Monster types limited between episodes as per our discussion in this thread, also no Megaspheres until late in the game

What do you think, would any of you play something like this?

Dude, i play any Doom map if a download link is given.
i dont care of the map is a silly joke or serious job...just let me try!

[Lila Feuer]

I'd say the SSG shouldn't show up until episodes 3 and 4, where things get harder (Hell, Limbo).

Chaingunners for episodes 2-4, from relatively uncommon to being in league with the shotgun guys by the end.

Hell Knights for episodes 2-4, once again from relatively uncommon to replacing most of the Barons in episode 4, so they aren't total bullet sponges while still being common and dangerous foes.

Arachnotrons only appearing in episode 4, to aid the second Spider Mastermind.

Pain Elementals in episodes 3 and 4, now you get to find out where all the Lost Souls are coming from.

Revenants, Mancubi and Archviles, the last being used as a mini-boss character, as episode 4 only enemies, to signify more hellspawn showing up in retaliation for entering and wrecking Hell in episode 3, and as a prelude to Doom II.

[joe-ilya]

Doom : Hell on earth

E1: Head deep in the nature
M1:Pistol focused, imps and zombieman, nukage
2:Shotgun halfway through, demons spectres, shotgunners.
3:Chainguns, lost souls and chaingunners halfway through, soulsphere surrouded by lost souls.
4:SSG, RL, manc and arachnotron dead simple map
5:Hell knight and cacos
8:Barons with hell knights around
9:Chainsaw

E2: The streets on the shores
1:PE, lava
2:Berserk and arch-vile, crushers
3:Plasma gun, megasphere, revenant
8:Cyberdemon with lost souls, demons, spectres, zombiemen and an archvile
9:Nazi, voodoo doll

E3: Hell
4:BFG
8:Spider masterminds with arachnotrons
9:Commander keen

E4: Thy flesh consumed
1:nature :Easy intro with low-tier and few mid-tier monsters and an SSG
2:cave: lava, fire shooting fiends, mid-tier are more common
3:Catwalks and flying enemies with caged enemies, cyber boss
4:Blood and water lakes and ruins
5:Sandbox city
6:A starport on a mountain, spider mastermind
7:Sewage, mysterious monster spawner
8:IOS in a largescale base, john romero head
9:Many cybers and spider masterminds, BFG themed map, slaughterfest

[Jaxxoon R]

joe-ilya said:

9:Nazi

What

[joe-ilya]

It's a secret level, that's what.

[Olroda]

Xfing said:

What do you think, would any of you play something like this?

Absolutely! This sounds like a worthy endeavour, if care is taken to enforce a sense of progression. Since the SSG tends to dominate whenever introduced*, I agree that it should appear late in the WAD. Towards the end of "episode" III sounds about right.




*= Which makes me wonder why our real-life military bothers with assault rifles. Hand out a bunch of sawn-off shotguns, damn it! Not only are they cheap and commonplace, but the stopping power of a single blast is comparable to twenty machinegun rounds! And with some circle-strafing, even tanks will become obsolete, crushed beneath the might of the most respectable object in the universe!