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Bad Luck Ranger

Baphomet? What the hell was he?

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Right, so you've reached the last level DoomII, you've played though the series of 30 maps and have completed the Wolf3D homage secret levels. But just out of interest? When you enter that bastard of a level where you must kill the Icon of Sin/Baphomet... Christ? I first thought that id software had screwed up somewhere because that level was too damn difficult anyway... what was the Icon of Sin? Just a large goat head stuck to a wall?? John Carmack's head on a stick??
Has anyone got any clue?

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It was supposed to be a really huge monster, but obviously they couldnt go that large with sprites, so they stuck it on a wall instead.

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Yeah, as freaggle pointed out the 2d 'monster' is made up of several different wall textures arranged correctly to produce the goat head.

I guess it's quite clever for 1994 but I distinctly remember being unconvinced when I saw it. I was like, wtf? Who drew that goat on the wall?

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The Baphomet is the ancient 'horned god' of the wiccan religion, god of life, death and fertility - in short, god of the earth. It became associated with demons and hell after it was nicked by the newer christian religions and turned into a nasty piece of work.

And yeah, John Romero's head resides on a pole behind it's exposed brain.

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Just wait until Doom 3 - THEN we'll see a huge ass end game boss (I hope) which is NOT a damn wall.

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dsm said:

Just wait until Doom 3 - THEN we'll see a huge ass end game boss (I hope) which is NOT a damn wall.


I was kinda hoping to see the Baphomet - that is, the full-form of it, stomping round and spitting forth demons left, right and center :)

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And yeah, John Romero's head resides on a pole behind it's exposed brain.

he IS the exposed brain! I'm never sure if it's him or the goat head that's supposed to be the icon of sin. I think it goes back to when certain dumbasses thought Romero was like the super evil or something for his so-called violent games, so he portrayed it tongue-in-cheek style in the game istelf (tongue-in-cheek because of course you shouldn't ever see him if you don't cheat!).

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pritch said:

(tongue-in-cheek because of course you shouldn't ever see him if you don't cheat!).


aaah come on. As soon as rumours got out about the 'romero head' thing, EVERYONE was noclipping thru the wall and reversing the ripped wav of his alert sound.

Luckily, some of us refuse to cheat unless we're clocked (completed) the game ourselves... right?

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dsm said:

Just wait until Doom 3 - THEN we'll see a huge ass end game boss (I hope) which is NOT a damn wall [icon of sin].

Um, before we start to get too excited about a huge boss, lets refresh on what doom 3 is. Its a remake of Doom, not doom2. So, it would make sense that the big bosses will be the SM and the CD. however, from what i have heard, doom 3 will be a 32 level game not a 3 episode one so i could be wrong about the bosses being the same. but IMO, we will not see the icon of sin.

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Just out of curiosity, who did the artwork for the Icon of Sin, was it John Romero?
And I really hope we'll see an updated Baphomet in Doom3 (I doubt it though).

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gatewatcher said:

Um, before we start to get too excited about a huge boss, lets refresh on what doom 3 is. Its a remake of Doom, not doom2. So, it would make sense that the big bosses will be the SM and the CD. however, from what i have heard, doom 3 will be a 32 level game not a 3 episode one so i could be wrong about the bosses being the same. but IMO, we will not see the icon of sin.


Uh, no. Doom 3 is exactly that. It's Doom 3. Not "Doom: The Remake". So although they'll probably bring back a few familiar faces, there are also going to be plenty of new baddies. Including a new end boss. However, I think it would be nice if they updated Baphomet. Just to see what Id originally intended.

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Assmaster said:

Uh, no. Doom 3 is exactly that. It's Doom 3. Not "Doom: The Remake". So although they'll probably bring back a few familiar faces, there are also going to be plenty of new baddies. Including a new end boss. However, I think it would be nice if they updated Baphomet. Just to see what Id originally intended.

No, doom IS a remake.

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Assmaster said:

And just how is it that you happen to have this amazing piece of information?

How do you not know? i think even the people at id have been quite clear that this is a remake. plus, why else would you just disregard all of Doom? but, i don't quite understand you though. do u think Doom III is continuing where Doom II left off (because that is out and out false), or are you saying something else?

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I've been reading the various Doom 3 articles and I fail to see how this is a remake. Meh.
What I do mean is that it is the next incarnation in the series using the same base title and same basic concepts as the first two, but not necessarily leaving off from the second (Doom 2 is far too old for them to just keep going from where it ended). Im sure there will be references to the first two game plots though. Chances are you wont even be playing as the same doomguy or in the same time period.

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DOOM3 is retelling,not "total" remake,not the sequel of DOOM2.
reamke is like using the same map,same story with updated sound and graphic.example of remake game . Mario All Star.

retelling:it`s like DOOM1/2 never happened.they wrote "new" story for DOOM.and retell it.DOOM and DOOM3 will have many similarity (monsters,atmosphere)

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Ok, its a retelling, close to a remake. i understand that, thats what i meant i just didnt say it that way i guess. But Assmaster needs to kinda focus in on what doom3 is.

Assmaster said:

Im sure there will be references to the first two game plots though. Chances are you wont even be playing as the same doomguy or in the same time period.

you see, what he has just said is retarded! you are the SAME doomguy, and it is the same time period. It's a "retelling" or as i was calling it a "remake". Assmaster, i am convinced you don't understand doom 3. swing by the doom 3 forum and get an idea of what it is.

one more thing,

Dark-tenshi said:

retelling:it`s like DOOM1/2 never happened.they wrote "new" story for DOOM.and retell it.DOOM and DOOM3 will have many similarity (monsters,atmosphere)

id has said it will be like the original doom never happened. they never said doom 2... afaik, doom2 is still the sequel to doom3.

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And the doom3 forumers have this information? YOU COULD BOTH BE RIGHT OR WRONG. ID hasn't clarified anything and if they have why don't you show it to me.

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gatewatcher said:

swing by the doom 3 forum and get an idea of what it is.


Why would I read what the forums have to say when I can read the articles directly and decide myself.


However, I was not aware of the above article. It actually sounds pretty cool this way but simultaneously I'm a little dissapointed.

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np, i wasn't trying to piss you off its just that you were way off and i didnt want you to think doom3 was something that it isn't :D

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gatewatcher said:

Its a remake of Doom, not doom2. So, it would make sense that the big bosses will be the SM and the CD. however, from what i have heard, doom 3 will be a 32 level game not a 3 episode one so i could be wrong about the bosses being the same. but IMO, we will not see the icon of sin.

The SM and the Cybie will probably be there, but it wouldn't make sense for id not to include an entirely new boss (they would dissapoint WAY too many people).

And Assmaster, you haven't been following the recent Doom 3 news very closely. Firstly, the leaked video (which has been discussed so detailed that even those of you who haven't seen it would get a good idea about what it's about) show some events which seem to resemble the events in the old Doom too closely (some scientists mess around and accidentally open a gateway to Hell - that wouldn't happen in a proper sequel to Doom 2).
Secondly as you know now, it's in that article that you've read now.

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gatewatcher said:

o, i am a newbie? i was a few months ago yeah.


You're better off ignoring people like Ralpis.

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gatewatcher said:

o, i am a newbie? i was a few months ago yeah.

gatewatcher
doomedout's gay partner


Posts: 111
Registered: 05-02

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Mad_AX666 said:

You're better off ignoring people like Ralpis.

Yeah, Ralpiss is only gonna annoy the crap outta you - add him to your ignore list (found in the user profile menu), and voila! Ugly Ralpiss posts disappear.

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Ralphis said:

I still hate you n00bs


You hate n00bs? You really should have more respect for yourself.

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