Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
Shaviro

Darkening E 2 Bad and Good things

Recommended Posts

Swedish fish wanted constructive critik, well here it goes.

Bad things

1. Though the levels are beautefull, they are too complex.
2. Its just the old, Shoot, kill, run. No more to it. No gameplay
3. No new ideas, just plain old metal walls. ZZZZZZZ.
4. The story:After a hard nights driving about in the galaxy, your trusted space vessel
"Margie" runs out of fuel and you crash on some ugly planet. Ehhhhhh?????

Good things

1. Its very beautefull levels.
2. Some of the most good-looking textures.

But thats it. You have a hard time maintaining the interest. Aint there more to doom than Shoot Kill and run?

Why aint there new ideas in it? Go find the blue key so we can get the yellow key so we can get the red key so we can go to the exit so we can go to the next level so we can get boored. You have to DO something to maintain the DooMers interests, not just spit out 12 wads here play em
shoot kill run!
find the keys and exit
WOW how fun!

Why dont u go for scripting ya levels instead Fishie? I think i played half of the first level and then i trashed it. It was simply too booring. But dont think every scripted wads are good. Just look at DooM 2000 by TNT, man i was loosing my faith in that team. Howcome its always dark?
It really spoils the game!

Maonth

Share this post


Link to post

"1. Though the levels are beautefull, they are too complex."

Okay, whatever you say my friend. First the Darkening team were told that the episode 1 levels were too small, now that the E2 levels are too complex? Can't we win? And BTW, if you think THESE levels are complex, obviously you haven't played many other WADs. Try Eternal Doom and see if you still feel the same way!

"2. Its just the old, Shoot, kill, run. No more to it. No gameplay"

Shoot, kill, run, and search, are what makes up Doom's gameplay. This is an add-on for Doom. Work it out.

"3. No new ideas, just plain old metal walls. ZZZZZZZ."

What about the many walls that are made of rock, stone, concrete and other such materials? And what about all the details? Crates, conveyor belts, cranes, vats of acid and lava, broken walls and floors, cool lighting effects, ladders, fake 3D effects, etc. Some of this stuff is VERY hard to do in the original .exe when you have to worry about HOM and VPO.

We would have gone with a limit removing port, but several of the team were "port-o-phobes".

"4. The story:After a hard nights driving about in the galaxy, your trusted space vessel "Margie" runs out of fuel and you crash on some ugly planet. Ehhhhhh?????"

Yes, the story does suck. I wrote a better (IMHO), longer story that continued from the original Darkening E1 story (which I also wrote), but for some reason it wasn't used. Go figure.

"Why dont u go for scripting ya levels instead Fishie?"

Please, I think everyone would be interested in you telling us where the scripting features of doom2.exe are and how to use them. I personally believe that they don't actually exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Kaopectate
NiGHTMARE said:

Very true on some issues...
Eternal Doom took me two weeks to beat...tough...

i just finished Darkening E2 about 10 minutes ago and I liked it....some things were boring..but I thought the way the archviles were used was excellent...I especially like the end of the last two solo levels.

Share this post


Link to post
Kaopectate said:

Eternal Doom took me two weeks to beat...tough...

Yeah, that one took me a week. Usually I can make it through those giant megawads in 2 or 3 days at the most.

Share this post


Link to post
Shaviro said:

Have you ever noticed a little port called ZDooM?

Yes most people have heard of zdoom, and a lot of people hate it. Quite a lot. I'll go on a limb here and say 'g and citrus are included, although this is unconfirmed. Why not change your signature to say ZDOOM isntead of doom2 then, if you feel this way?

1. Though the levels are beautefull, they are too complex.
Heh. If you say so.

2. Its just the old, Shoot, kill, run. No more to it. No gameplay
Thats doom for you.

3. No new ideas, just plain old metal walls. ZZZZZZZ.
Check your eyesight.

4. The story:After a hard nights driving about in the galaxy, your trusted space vessel
"Margie" runs out of fuel and you crash on some ugly planet. Ehhhhhh?????

Since when do stories matter? I think that is rather tongue in cheek.

Share this post


Link to post
Shaviro said:

Have you ever noticed a little port called ZDooM?

So you're saying that all new WADS should use ZDoom. It's my favourite port too, but I still strongly disagree with you on that one. There's plenty that other ports such as EDGE, Legacy, SMMU, etc can offer that ZDoom can't. Even original .exe levels can be good, as they force the level designer to be very strict and observant, not just feeling free to bung in anything.

Also, note that part were I say that some team members refused to go with a port (I think I was the only one on the team in favour of using any port at all, I could be wrong on that though)If they refused to even use Boom (which pretty much everything except EDGE supports nowadays), how hard do you think it would have been to convince them to use a port with as many extra features as ZDoom has?

Share this post


Link to post

No not just ZDooM, but if you dont have a new idea for the old DooM2, so its only Shoot Kill Run. Then script it in Zdoom, or try making floors over floors in Edge, or whatever. Just dont make the Key level again. Try something different than The same old D2. They can be good too. But ya gotta have new ideas!.

I dont want to offend you Nightmare. You should just join another team that uses ports. Go join The RTC. We use ports.

d:o)

Share this post


Link to post

Heh, I've two projects of my own that use Skull Tag (Paradox and Wrath), one that uses Boom (Surge 2), and one that uses EDGE (Havoc DM). Plus I'm making a ZDoom only enhanced version of Execution, and I'm contributing to Crucified Dreams (Boom), Hellstorm (ZDoom), Twice Risen (Skull Tag), Testament of Judgement (MBF), and Mordeth Episode 2 (its own engine).

So basically I'm doing stuff for every major port except SMMU and Legacy :)

Share this post


Link to post
Teppic said:

Yes most people have heard of zdoom, and a lot of people hate it. Quite a lot. I'll go on a limb here and say 'g and citrus are included, although this is unconfirmed. Why not change your signature to say ZDOOM isntead of doom2 then, if you feel this way?

1. Though the levels are beautefull, they are too complex.
Heh. If you say so.

2. Its just the old, Shoot, kill, run. No more to it. No gameplay
Thats doom for you.

3. No new ideas, just plain old metal walls. ZZZZZZZ.
Check your eyesight.

4. The story:After a hard nights driving about in the galaxy, your trusted space vessel
"Margie" runs out of fuel and you crash on some ugly planet. Ehhhhhh?????

Since when do stories matter? I think that is rather tongue in cheek.

U dont have a single point!

Share this post


Link to post

I totally agree Manonth... or whatever your name is; too obscure for me to try and spell it. Anyway - I agreed whole heartedly with what you said. Except I didn't think the levels were all that beautiful, but then again, I didn't get passed level 1 either, so I don't know what the other levels looked like - but I'm sick of wads robbing quake 2 textures and STILL I see crates randomly scattered in levels - PLEASE! something somewhat fresh! Or at least make it like the original doom. Bah... oh well. One day there has to be an episode/megawad that I like... still waiting though.... I did like Requiem, but the levels had no connection to one another. I managed to get to level 6 in Requiem. There was some episode 1 style mini episode - wish I could remember it - anyway, it was quite good.

Share this post


Link to post

Darkening E2 is one of my favs of all time. I get an inferiority complex about my own levels every time I play the damn thing.
To the buttheads responsible for creating this masterpiece I can only say thanks a lot! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Psycho
NiGHTMARE said:

Heh, I've two projects of my own that use Skull Tag (Paradox and Wrath), one that uses Boom (Surge 2), and one that uses EDGE (Havoc DM). Plus I'm making a ZDoom only enhanced version of Execution, and I'm contributing to Crucified Dreams (Boom), Hellstorm (ZDoom), Twice Risen (Skull Tag), Testament of Judgement (MBF), and Mordeth Episode 2 (its own engine).

So basically I'm doing stuff for every major port except SMMU and Legacy :)

Wow, that's a lot of projects...

Share this post


Link to post
Stphrz said:

Darkening E2 is one of my favs of all time. I get an inferiority complex about my own levels every time I play the damn thing.
To the buttheads responsible for creating this masterpiece I can only say thanks a lot! :)

Man, this reminds me, I gotta finish my Millennium stuff... I _think_ I can compete here with most of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Shaviro said:

U dont have a single point!

Of course I do! Try reading again. Your not one for rational debate are you? First you make a bunch of slanderous comments and then you can't even debate them properly when people contest them!

Share this post


Link to post

I have always thought that the weak point in the Darkening E2 is the gameplay. It is nothing I really can specifically point out, but after a few levels I got bored and quit never to play again. Perhaps it is those unusual ideas about how a level progression should look that makes me dont like it, like in MAP01 where the blue key is put in an area that I would consider to be a secret. As well, I personally prefer levels where the difficulty isn't put in the conserving of ammo but in the evasion of nasty traps and overwhelming hordes of monsters.

The Darkening E2 kicks everything's ass when it comes to looks, of course, but gameplay doesn't somehow reach that high mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Hellbent said:

I totally agree Manonth... or whatever your name is; too obscure for me to try and spell it. Anyway - I agreed whole heartedly with what you said. Except I didn't think the levels were all that beautiful, but then again, I didn't get passed level 1 either, so I don't know what the other levels looked like - but I'm sick of wads robbing quake 2 textures and STILL I see crates randomly scattered in levels - PLEASE! something somewhat fresh! Or at least make it like the original doom. Bah... oh well. One day there has to be an episode/megawad that I like... still waiting though.... I did like Requiem, but the levels had no connection to one another. I managed to get to level 6 in Requiem. There was some episode 1 style mini episode - wish I could remember it - anyway, it was quite good.

Robbing Quake 2 textures? Excuse me, what are you talking about? Almost all the Darkening E2 textures were made from scratch by Ola, and the few that weren't (i.e. ones by me) were based on Doom 2 ones.

And to all you people who haven't played past the first map... how can you complain about the entire set of levels when you don't even know what they look or play like? I assure you that on the whole, all the levels are very different from one another.
The later SP levels, particularly the last one, map12, have to be seen (and played through) to be believed.

Also, I strongly recommend that you check out the DM levels (map13 and onwards).

Share this post


Link to post
Guest zyvgjc
Hellbent said:

I totally agree Manonth... or whatever your name is; too obscure for me to try and spell it. Anyway - I agreed whole heartedly with what you said. Except I didn't think the levels were all that beautiful, but then again, I didn't get passed level 1 either, so I don't know what the other levels looked like - but I'm sick of wads robbing quake 2 textures and STILL I see crates randomly scattered in levels - PLEASE! something somewhat fresh! Or at least make it like the original doom. Bah... oh well. One day there has to be an episode/megawad that I like... still waiting though.... I did like Requiem, but the levels had no connection to one another. I managed to get to level 6 in Requiem. There was some episode 1 style mini episode - wish I could remember it - anyway, it was quite good.

But you can download Quake 2 textures at Afterglow. I don't think this is called robbing if textures are available for download.

Share this post


Link to post
Teppic said:

Of course I do! Try reading again. Your not one for rational debate are you? First you make a bunch of slanderous comments and then you can't even debate them properly when people contest them!

Sorry Maonth, but your arguements of Darkening E2 are either personal taste (Where no on is right really) or completely invalid.

1. Though the levels are beautefull, they are too complex.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? If they're able to run on the original doom2.exe, they aren't complex at all. The level design is spectacular for having VPO limits. It's a matter of opinion, but perhaps you should elaborate a bit? Meaning clear up what you're saying so it makes sense to us

2. Its just the old, Shoot, kill, run. No more to it. No gameplay

I'm going with Teppic here. Darkening was made to be old school doom style. If you don't like the shoot, kill, run theme, then why even like Doom? Or for that matter, why like any first person shooters period? Why bash at something for mimmicking the old school doom gameplay when Darkening E2 was supposed to be that way? Whatever man...

3. No new ideas, just plain old metal walls. ZZZZZZZ.

I have to go with Teppic. Check your eyesight. There's more than just metal in there;)

Plus I thought the levels were very fresh and original. Just because it's in an alien base doesn't mean it's original. ALL levels are original in some way. I can see from the quality the work all these creators put into the game and you putting it down is very low. If you don't like it, play another add-on

4. The story:After a hard nights driving about in the galaxy, your trusted space vessel
"Margie" runs out of fuel and you crash on some ugly planet. Ehhhhhh?????

Here I don't agree with Teppic, because it's a matter of opinion wether a story is important or not. However, your arguement *is* what teppic calls "toungue and cheek" , considering the fact that the txt file states that "If you want a more complexe storyline, play another add-on"

Teppic's debates weren't very complex in nature, but he did state some very correct arguements, especially the one where you can't properly handle a simple debate!

I still just don't understand why you would bash something made for the original doom2.exe for being a find the keys kind of game. Lowly and pathetic in my opinion on YOUR part.

Share this post


Link to post
zyvgjc said:

But you can download Quake 2 textures at Afterglow. I don't think this is called robbing if textures are available for download.

As I've already said, none of the Darkening E2 textures are from Quake 2 anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Tawney said:

< Sorry Maonth, but your arguements of Darkening E2 are either <personal taste (Where no on is right really) or completely <invalid.

Thats YOUR opinion. Hellbent has the same Feeling about this.

<What the hell is that supposed to mean? If they're able to run <on the original doom2.exe, they aren't complex at all. The <level design is spectacular for having VPO limits. It's a <matter of opinion, but perhaps you should elaborate a bit? <Meaning clear up what you're saying so it makes sense to us

Complex Maps just gets too Booring. Theres no new from wolfenstein there.

<I'm going with Teppic here. Darkening was made to be old school <doom style. If you don't like the shoot, kill, run theme, then <why even like Doom? Or for that matter, why like any first <person shooters period? Why bash at something for mimmicking <the old school doom gameplay when Darkening E2 was supposed to <be that way? Whatever man...

I like Some DooM maps when theres new ideas in it. Else its just a drag...


<I have to go with Teppic. Check your eyesight. There's more <than just metal in there;)

<Plus I thought the levels were very fresh and original. Just <because it's in an alien base doesn't mean it's original. ALL <levels are original in some way. I can see from the quality the <work all these creators put into the game and you putting it <down is very low. If you don't like it, play another add-on

It wasnt the metal walls, more like illustrating theres nothing new under the sun. Yes i like the looks of this add-on too. But theres no gameplay in it. gets booring.


<I still just don't understand why you would bash something made <for the original doom2.exe for being a find the keys kind of <game. Lowly and pathetic in my opinion on YOUR part.

You dont have to make the find keys thing EVERY TIME, i made up a lot o stuff for TRTCC. (Note. The beta you have played is for BUG finding. Its not the full version of any kind!)

What i ment here, was not to Bring the makers of DE2 Down. But to tell them they can do better than the key thingie all over again.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest zyvgjc

DooM is about finding keys to proceed to the next section of a level. Every wad that I've played so far has at least one key in it(not counting Map30). Without keys, the structure and flow of the levels would be lost. If you don't put any keys in your levels, then you run the risk your levels would end too quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Grul said:

I have always thought that the weak point in the Darkening E2 is the gameplay. It is nothing I really can specifically point out, but after a few levels I got bored and quit never to play again. Perhaps it is those unusual ideas about how a level progression should look that makes me dont like it, like in MAP01 where the blue key is put in an area that I would consider to be a secret. As well, I personally prefer levels where the difficulty isn't put in the conserving of ammo but in the evasion of nasty traps and overwhelming hordes of monsters.

The Darkening E2 kicks everything's ass when it comes to looks, of course, but gameplay doesn't somehow reach that high mark.

I dunno man. Some of your stuff (your latest map for example) kicks back.... Hard! :)

Share this post


Link to post
zyvgjc said:

DooM is about finding keys to proceed to the next section of a level. Every wad that I've played so far has at least one key in it(not counting Map30). Without keys, the structure and flow of the levels would be lost. If you don't put any keys in your levels, then you run the risk your levels would end too quickly.

No. You will have to restructure it. Making it a bit more difficult ETC.

Share this post


Link to post
Stphrz said:

I dunno man. Some of your stuff (your latest map for example) kicks back.... Hard! :)

It was kinda funny to face those eight thousand imps, right? :)
I'm proud of that one.

Share this post


Link to post

Eight thousand? Is that all there were. I thought there were more.......


:)

Share this post


Link to post
Grul said:

It was kinda funny to face those eight thousand imps, right? :)
I'm proud of that one.

That rocked.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
×