Uncoolness

[Guest Nodus]

GBJacksonCGDC said:

*wipes tears from eyes*

Truely touching story about your mum up above. Oh yes, um where exactly do these diseases that she got come from? Could it be.. god? And so we thank god for taking away a disease that he gave us? Oh and to that other jesus zombie, I dont want to live forever, eventually you would do and think everything and itd all becomes so dull. I look forward to the end of my life, and dont think of it in a morbid way. I will feel the peace when I am dying. Really, I also got the same junk from you id expected. You all sound like politics when you talk. You make unclear references to unimportant things,dance around the truth, like it proves some point. If Im to beleive something I need a solid explanation, not
some story about magic.

Lets pretend Im a very happy man from an island way out in the middle of nowhere, and I lead a completely normal, and happy life. I have never learned of religion but I am an intelligent person capable of communicating and understanding. Explain to this man why he should beleive in god, and why is life isnt complete without it.

There really is no reason for it. I never TOLD those people to go back to england, I said I WISHED they would. Why is it that when someone doesnt beleive in god they are flamed for it. Im not attacking you now, Im asking you to prove something to me.

And even if it isnt england I dont care, What I really ment was I just want it all to go away. It gives me that same sick feeling I get when I watch a television show, or here news about movie stars. Its just people trying ot shape your life and make you do something for them.

Science explains everything just fine, no reason to make it all mysterious with these little housewife tales.

[Guest GBJacksonCGDC]

How does science explain the origin of the universe?

[Guest Nodus]

a little thing called the big bang theory might be true, or perhaps humans just will never know, and really why should we give a rats ass. Im not the person to ask anyways, go ask a scientist. Just live your damn life, and stop triyng to figure things out. Things are the way they are, no need for an explanation, no need to thank anyone.

[Guest GBJacksonCGDC]

Now who's dancing around an issue?

[Guest Nodus]

Ha! Ok then, I cant explain the origin of the universe. So that in turn must mean god exists? Im not sure im following you here.

Im sure you could explain it right? Where did the universe come from. Oh but wed all have to sit on the carpet in a circle around you and have gram crackers and milk and listen to a childrens story.

[Guest GBJacksonCGDC]

your inability to explain how the universe came to be doesn't necessarily prove that God exists in its own right. But it doesn't disprove His existance, either.

Can you honestly say with 100% confidence that God does not exist?

[Guest Nodus]

So what I am asking for here is something TO PROVE his existence. It doesnt prove he doesnt exists and it doesnt prove he does exist, but that just gives us no reason to beleive in him. Only thing we have about religion is the bible. Why do we actualy beleive it is what Im asking. Couldnt someone have just made it up? Wether they were bored, or just wanted to explain everything thing. Man created language and writing, so wouldnt gods presence be proven in a more spiritual way? Wouldnt he come and speak to us? Why doesnt he do that anymore. He did all the time in the past, did he just decide to go somewhere else?

Here let me write a book on why everything is the wway it is. Ill make up a god, and all kinds of stories, and then ill tell everyone its the truth and youll all follow without question. Can anyone honeslty say with 100% confidence that my sotry is wrong? If so then prove its wrong. Just because you cant prove something doesnt exist doesnt mean it does, and I dont go for that "im not going to take a chance" crap.

[Guest GBJacksonCGDC]

" So what I am asking for here is something TO PROVE his existence. "

Look around you!

"Only thing we have about religion is the bible."

Religion is based on the Bible, not the bible based on religion.

"Why do we actualy beleive it is what Im asking."

Maybe because when one takes it all into account and actually apply its lessons to their life, it makes more sense than anything man tries to reason his way through without any tru basis.

"Couldnt someone have just made it up? Wether they were bored, or just wanted to explain everything thing."

No. Considering the fact that it has been proven that the bible consists of the writings of many people, no one person could have made it up.

Consider also just how much of middle-eastern history actually confirms the biblical account of history.

Also, the Bible does not outright explain everything. Does it mention the dinosaurs? What about Space Aliens. We know that the dinosaurs existed, so why would the Bible need to tell us that. And the government seems to take the prospect of alien life seriously, because they fund organizations like SETI. The Bible was written for us, so what goes on on some other planet or in space is not our concern as far as what the Bible has to teach.

"Man created language and writing, so wouldnt gods presence be proven in a more spiritual way? Wouldnt he come and speak to us?"

You said that "It's okay to believe in God, but if he answers, you're crazy". Now you're saying that you're looking for him to answer you? Sounds like a contradiction to me.

"Why doesnt he do that anymore. He did all the time in the past, did he just decide to go somewhere else?"

No... but those in control of society have made it clear that they don't want God to be a part of the equation. Do you go where you're not wanted? Not unless you are a trouble maker, and I don't see you as such. He made us in His image. So it is safe to assume that if we avoid places where we're not wanted, then he would do the same... until he gets tired of watching us destroy ourselves while insulting Him and decides to remind creation of who the Creator is.

I would suggest that you read the book of Job in the bible. Pay close attention to the part where Job questions God's motives and gets an answer.

"Here let me write a book on why everything is the wway it is. Ill make up a god, and all kinds of stories, and then ill tell everyone its the truth and youll all follow without question."

Go right ahead... But then if you did, you would be at least conceding the existance of a god, which you argue against, thus contradicting yourself yet again.

"Can anyone honeslty say with 100% confidence that my sotry is wrong? If so then prove its wrong."

I'm sure the millions of people world-wide who have had first-hand experience with answered prayer or miracls would tell you that your story is wrong. I can. And the Old Testament was written over the course of thousands of years. I'm sure that my Jewish brothers and sisters will attest to the accuracy of what it has to say, leaving the New Testament out of the picture for a moment and looking strictly at the context from which their faith is drawn.

The fact that Israel was promised that it God would protect it is enough to make me believe. Israel has had more enemies throughout history than any civilization in existance, and it has outlasted all of them. Where are the Nazis now? Where is Egypt's oppression, now? Where are the crusaders now?

No weapon formed against them shall prosper. All who rise against them shall fall. That has been a historical fact. God bless Israel and those who are its friends!

"Just because you cant prove something doesnt exist doesnt mean it does, and I dont go for that "im not going to take a chance" crap"

Life is a gamble. Death is a certainty. Take chance with life all you want. But you had best be as certain as death that your choices are right. because if you are wrong about what happens at death, then you will answer for it. But that will be God's judgment to make.

In Christ,
G. B. Jackson

[Guest Nodus]

When I said Its okay to pray to god but if he answers you crazy, i was asking a quesiton. People pray to god constantly, but they never actualy expect a response.
People pray to god and its okay (in societies eye).
But If he talks back, and you tell others, they think youre crazy.
If you went up to someone and told them god talked back to you, that he actualy answered your quesiton, theyd think your were crazy.

ok Im looking around me.. I see some paperclips, a few papers, tape, well no sign of god. This is what I ment by unclear messages. Looking around explains nothing to me other than I have eyes. What would you tell a blind person?

Practicing what I feel is right other than what bible says is Is the only thing that feels right.

"Consider also just how much of middle-eastern history actually confirms the biblical account of history."

I could write a book on a religion and include historical things of our time as well, doesnt mean that The things I put in are true.

You want me to read something someone else has written, but Ive already thought about life on my own, Ive come up with my own explanation for everything, and it does feel right. I dont see any reason to beleive in what someone else hs written about.

Anyway, this has become a dry subject, I dont think Ill be coming back in here, We will obviously never agree on the subject so I suggest we put it aside.

[Phoenix]

Nodus said:

My two pennies worth.
This is a complex issue, yet also can be very simple. God can not be explained. The geginning of the Universe can not be explained. We can make only assumptions, and discuss it.
1. God did not talk to the humans per say. It is a misconception preached, but it is not written as such in the Bible.
2. God send down his Son. Most did not listen to him either. Still do not. He explained what will be acomplished by his death. If God would maintain a constant presents, would He in turn not be viewed as the Big Kid on the block? Like a Dictator? He, so I believe created us. He gave us a free will. We can do and find Him or simply live our lives. But He will not come out and look for you. Basically he has been rejected by billions of people for thousands of years, you got to make the first step. Yes, it is hard to believe, it sounds so 'convenient', but so is the Big Bang and Evolution.

[Guest GBJacksonCGDC]

Nodus said:

"Anyway, this has become a dry subject, I dont think Ill be coming back in here, We will obviously never agree on the subject so I suggest we put it aside."

Very well. But I want you to know that I will be praying for you. That you will one day open your eyes and see the truth. And that that day will come before it is too late.

I remember hearing about a drunk who was staggering home in the rain. Lightning struck and it thundered loudly. The drunk turned his face at the sky and shook his fist and screamed "I DARE you ro strike me down, you SOB!". Lightning struck again, and it had split the drunk wide open.

You keep wanting God to show up and reveal himself to you. One day, he will. But will you like the way he does it? It is your choice where you will spend eternity. But you will spend it somewhere.

[Xenoman]

GBJacksonCGDC said:

Not quite the vocabulary I would have chosen to use, but you hit the nail head-on.

I am a Christian. Not baptist, not Catholic, not [insert denomination here].

Christianity is not about religion. It's about a relationship. There's a difference between knowing Christianity and living it. Those who live it are the ones whom God has saved. Those who merely know it are going to miss heaven by a mere 18 inches (the average distance between the brain and the heart).

People deny the truth all the time. But it doesn't make the truth go away or be less true.

In Christ,
G. B. Jackson

Well, I don´t if God exists but why should an explosion create round planets and billions of stars and solar systems and tons of other things all in a thing we call the universe?

It´s like in a cartoon: Something pops out of the air for no reason, and all living things weren´t created for no reason. Look where the humanity stands today, all the technology we have.

What, the universe was created by a "big bang" and created all kinds of things for no reason?

[stphrz]

GBJacksonCGDC said:

A coincidence? Maybe not. Although I believe you have the "power of prayer/faith" thing backwards. I was always taught that the purpose of prayer/meditation was not, an appeal, or to change the heart of God, but to change our own. So many in similar circumstances as your family confronted with your mother's illness had a different outcome. They prayed too. They had faith too. Yet the loved one they prayed so desperately for passed on. It's easy to believe in God when things turn out the way you want. I don't believe God makes miracles now. Not in the way you mean anyway. God doen't cause disasters (natural or otherwise) either. God does not run our lives. His silence is more revealing than intervention. Faith serves when reason fails.

The real miracle that occured was your increase in faith.

[Guest Nodus]

Xenoman said:

Well, I don´t if God exists but why should an explosion create round planets and billions of stars and solar systems and tons of other things all in a thing we call the universe?

It´s like in a cartoon: Something pops out of the air for no reason, and all living things weren´t created for no reason. Look where the humanity stands today, all the technology we have.

What, the universe was created by a "big bang" and created all kinds of things for no reason?

There REALLY is no reason. We create one in our heads. We could all live in paradise down here if we didnt question things like that.

Round planets and "stuff" is jsut what happened. What did you expect? If it turned out any other way, comepletely diferent, you wouldnt question that. Planets are round from the way they orbit, theyve been shaped into what they are from the pull of mass. Everything wasnt the way it is now, its taken uncountable years for things to evolve into what they are today.

What would happen after we reached this "reason". Would we just hang aorund smiling happy that we acheived it? No one can tell me why I need god to complete my life, Im completely happy with it, I see no reason for it.

[Guest GBJacksonCGDC]

Stphrz said:

A coincidence? Maybe not. Although I believe you have the "power of prayer/faith" thing backwards. I was always taught that the purpose of prayer/meditation was not, an appeal, or to change the heart of God, but to change our own. So many in similar circumstances as your family confronted with your mother's illness had a different outcome. They prayed too. They had faith too. Yet the loved one they prayed so desperately for passed on. It's easy to believe in God when things turn out the way you want. I don't believe God makes miracles now. Not in the way you mean anyway. God doen't cause disasters (natural or otherwise) either. God does not run our lives. His silence is more revealing than intervention. Faith serves when reason fails.

The real miracle that occured was your increase in faith.

But you see, My faith and belief in God would have been no less if my mother had passed away. I prayed not to change the will of God, but to provide a means by which He may be glorified. The Doctors cannot explain her sudden recovery. And where did her arthritis go, if not removed by God?

You may presume to tell me what you think happened all you want. But I was there first hand. I know how it happened. There is no rationalizing away the miracle. God answered our prayer. It's as simple as that. And for that, I give him all the praise and all the glory. He's worthy of it as many times over as there are stars in this universe.

That's the short and long of it for me...


In Christ,
G. B. Jackson

[fodders]

Stphrz said:

A coincidence? Maybe not. Although I believe you have the "power of prayer/faith" thing backwards. I was always taught that the purpose of prayer/meditation was not, an appeal, or to change the heart of God, but to change our own. So many in similar circumstances as your family confronted with your mother's illness had a different outcome. They prayed too. They had faith too. Yet the loved one they prayed so desperately for passed on. It's easy to believe in God when things turn out the way you want. I don't believe God makes miracles now. Not in the way you mean anyway. God doen't cause disasters (natural or otherwise) either. God does not run our lives. His silence is more revealing than intervention. Faith serves when reason fails.

The real miracle that occured was your increase in faith.

Strange thing, 2 years ago , wife's Mom and my sister's husband were both taken into hospital on the same day, her with a stroke and him with some sort of liver failure, both unexpected, we spent 3 days going from intensive care to ward mother-in-law was on to check on both, never left hospital in 3 days, on 3rd day on way from one ward to other I asked the wife to call in with me at chapel in hospital to pray for them. My prayer wasn't to cure them but more on the lines of "if you could see Your way to healing them please do, but if You need them or can shorten their pain please take them now". On arrival at brother-in-law's ward we were told to return to ward mother-in-law was at urgently. On arrival we were told she had died shortly after we left, after paying respects and phoning rest of family to get here etc, went to other ward to tell my sister the news, to be told her hubby had died shortly after we left, seems God needed them after all, but I still feeel guilty for asking Him to take them :(

[fodders]

GBJacksonCGDC said:

In Christ,G. B. Jackson

You really shouldn't end your post with "in Christ" to me that is taking the Lord God's name in vain

[fodders]

GBJacksonCGDC said:

I remember hearing about a drunk who was staggering home in the rain. Lightning struck and it thundered loudly. The drunk turned his face at the sky and shook his fist and screamed "I DARE you ro stri

That "quote" is total bollox, there would be no witnesses to that little tale, very like the tale of someone dreaming and dreamed at a certain point they were beheaded etc and died on the spot, no one could possibly know what he dreamed so the tale is obviously false and lends no credence to your argument

[MaCvILeWhOrE]

geekmarine said:

So, if your not a certain religion (i.e. christianity) your gonna burn in hell eh? That has to be the most prejudiced comment i have ever heard. Besides, you say you guys are sinless goodie goods,but wasn't it your people who back in the old days burned and visciously murdered hundreds of innocent woman if someone accused them of being a witch? And you said you did it in the name of god? 'nuff said.

[stphrz]

fodders said:

Fod. Things happen. They just happen. Everyone dies. The just the unjust, the good and the bad. Doesn't seem fair if you see God as some sort of puppet master directing us, deciding on a moment by moment basis who will live and who will die, or who will recieve some sort of devine intervention to make their lives better and who will not. Life is not fair.

A lot of people say, "what kind of God can allow all the suffering and injustice that takes place in the world every second of every day to good innocent people" and use that to justify the fact that they don't believe there is a god.

A lot of people ask "why are we here?"

I submit the reason why we are here is to create that "fair" world, or do our best at any rate. God created the universe and everything within it. He gave us Life, Choice and a Promise of a life beyond this one. Our purpose here (I think) is to make the most of the first two. Faith is the belief that the Promise will be kept.

I don't think God "takes" people fod. I really don't believe that's how it works.

I pray for people I have lost all the time. It really helps me.

[Phoenix]

MACVILEWHORE said:

So, if your not a certain religion (i.e. christianity) your gonna burn in hell eh? That has to be the most prejudiced comment i have ever heard. Besides, you say you guys are sinless goodie goods,but wasn't it your people who back in the old days burned and visciously murdered hundreds of innocent woman if someone accused them of being a witch? And you said you did it in the name of god? 'nuff said.

Actions taken by ruthless Christian leaders may have been committed in ‘The Name Of Christ’ but have no biblical foundation. The reason this happened and will continue to take place is because hardly any one takes time to read God’s Word for himself. You may blame Christians for many things but please do not blame God. He really is innocent. He never said every one will burn in Hell, or did He tell to go forth and burn Witches.

[mewse]

Phoenix said:

I think(I could be wrong), the 'liberal left' is basically pacifists. Afraid to fight, and come with arguments like Iraq is not Hussein, so lets not do anything. People might get hurt, ignoring the possibility of what Hussein would do if he gets his army together again. I.e. more people getting hurt. The true left are willing to fight, and so are the ones on the right. I did not mean either of them. And the shit between Stalin and Hitler, that, man, let’s just make sure it’' not going to happen again.
BTW Mr. Churchhill was conservative, but such a great leader, he goes beyond parties. That man would have been a great leader on any platform.

I think you were talking more about who history knows as "isolationists" or "appeasers". I don't think their views on foreign policy were particularly pacifist or liberal, they just didn't want to fight because they were wimps (ok sounds liberal).

[Guest GBJacksonCGDC]

fodders said:

You really shouldn't end your post with "in Christ" to me that is taking the Lord God's name in vain

It is the short form of "Yours in Christ,"

This is the first time I've been accused of blasphemy while using that signature. Usually I get slammed for "forcing religion on other people." I don't do that. I just say what I feel and share what I've personally come to know. I leave it up to others to take the next step, if there would BE a next step.

In Christ,
G. B. Jackson

[danarchist]

Hmmm...well this is a bit more posting than I expected...I go to Seattle for one day, I come back and 52 replies! Well anyways I think what the U.S. did was wrong.

We think were so cool because we have such a big army and were so rich (actually we have a higher poverty rate than any other industrial nation), and were the ones with the UN. But you know what? Were just doing it cause were christian and they are arabic. Thats not cool. In fact it's racist. Reason number 2 is that war is profitable and if we bomb them, then we will need more bombs, and the bomb companies will get richer (eventually this goes back to the oil companies, who own Bush BTW).

The whole thing just stinks.

[stphrz]

Heh.

livin' in this country
livin' in this country
this is fucking where it's at
we got the guns
we got the bombs
and we're good enough to kick your ass

-Shock um Down, Warrior Soul.....