God - Creation

[NiGHTMARE]

Continuing on from that HUGE thread down below.

Some people were asking how the universe was created if there was no god. This is the current scientific belief that makes the most sense to me. And yes, it's long, but then, you asked for it, didn't you?

First of all, what most of us think of as the universe, the collection of galaxies of which our's is one, is really only a tiny fraction of the whole, which is most likely infinite (not just incomprehensibly big, but literally infinite) in size.

The universe has also always existed, in much the same way that christians say that God has always existed. The tiny part of it which contains our galaxies is constantly expanding due to the violent forces of the original Big Bang (which I will explain in just a minute).

Just a quick note here. The Big Crunch theory is most likely complete rubbish. There is no reason whatsoever why the universe will start shrinking. In space, once something starts moving, it keeps going in the same direction and in the same speed unless something else with a gravitational pull acts on it. And as by the time the Big Crunch would supposedly happen, everything would be so far away from everything else that it couldn't possibly effect it...

Anyway, there is thought to be thing called the "universal constant" (the missing factor in Einstein's Theory of Relativity) which is basically a background energy level that is the same everywhere that there is a void (i.e. no matter).

Once there's a large enough void without matter, something strange happens, and the energy implodes. The resulting explosion (during which the laws of physics, even time itself, rapidly change) creates a huge amount of matter, most of it in the form of hydrogen clouds.

After some time (millions of years, perhaps billions, who knows) a similar thing happens to the hydrogren clouds as happened to the void. They implode, forming a super massive blackhole. Hydrogen from the cloud is sucked into the blackhole, but as it grows it creates a sort of pulse of energy that gradually pushes back the surrounding matter until it is too far away to be sucked in. These blackholes and their surroundings are actually the individual galaxies being created.

During the time that the matter was being sucked in to the blackhole, the violent forces and immense speeds of the matter being sucked in caused the hydrogen to ignite. In places, it condenses, and solids start to form. These are the early stars and planets, I have no idea what determines what they were turned into, it's probably a combination of all kinds of factors.

As everything cools down, the universe as it is today starts to emerge. However, a lot of the newly formed planetoids are in very unstable orbits, and get pulled into suns, or smash into other planetoids. It's possible that as many as 50 planetoids orbitted the sun at the birth of our solar system, and it's thought that the asteroid belt between Earth and Mars is the remains of one of these planets. Perhaps it's the remains of two that smashed into each other. Again, who knows.

Going right back at the start, the universe is constantly expanding. However, as well as expanding, it is also constantly cooling. In around 10 billion years time, most of the universe will be dead, the last of the stars slowly flickering away. If it hasn't been sucked into a blackhole by thy then, the sun will have long ago burnt out, and the Earth will be many times colder than even the coldest ice age.

A quick side note. The gravitational pull of many of the larger celestial bodies mean that some things have altered direction, and scientists have confirmed that our nearest neighbour, the Andromeda galaxy, is actually moving towards us.

It may miss us all together, but there's a very real possiblity that it will collide with our galaxy in 10 million years or so, meaning that the two super massive black holes will star feeding again. If we're lucky, Earth will get flung off into the emptiness of space. If we're slightly less lucky, we'll smash into a star or another planet. If we're really UNLUCKY, we'll get sucked into one of the black holes (which may well have merged together by this time).

So, that's how I (and many scientsts) think the universe began and how it will end. But who's to say that God wasn't there at the very start, "lighting the match" that started the big bang in the first place?

[stphrz]

The stars are matter
We're matter
But it doesn't matter

..Don Van Vliet

[Peter Heinemann]

I doubt that persons who love themselves and treat other men like they expect to be handled by others (respect/love) have a need for any religion. Certainly in former times religions were needed to built civilisation and art and install guidelines for social behavior. But now we have science and education and religion is useless and obsolete!

Nature tribes, who have no complex religions, only believing in trees or stones and the different spirits living in it also have built complex social structures.

Even primates, who definitely have no religion are able to live together in social community and when conflicts arise they use to use sex to keep piece. Yes, I read that in "Scientific American", from one point of stress, all apes are going to copulate with each other to avoid conflicts and war. Like a "gangbang". :-). Maybe we need more sex and less weapons ... maybe also Mr. Bush should have more sex. But I doubt if we need more religion, better more education in respect and love. And science!

Some days in the future maybe mankind will be able to leave this dogged planet and go on the long trail to another planet and settle down somewhere in the universe. Then maybe "god" have to stay here on empty earth.

But if I would be a anxious person and would have to choose between the different religions, I would maybe pick up the islam, since it seems to be based much more on humanity and science. The christian religion is for me - remembering history and also looking at the present time - the religion of terror and dullness. Especially the catholic church!!! (I am aware, that some "islam" regimes in the world are not giving the best examples for humanity, I am speaking about islam as it was meant to be). Also the first universities were islamic universities. Am I a believer? Definitely not.

[NightFang]

Sounds like somebody needs to find a new hobby if this is what you sit around and think about all day =)

[Phoenix]

Peter Heinemann said:

Interesting choice. Islam. I take it you’ve read the Koran, and the prophetic end. Yes very loving and compassionate. I don’t think more sex and less guns will solve the problem with our ever-present predators in live. Hussein could have many wives, and sex. In fact all of the Middle East should be the most peaceful area there is. Maybe they need more?

[geekmarine]

Stphrz said:

The stars are matter
We're matter
But it doesn't matter

..Don Van Vliet

"What's matter? Never mind. What's mind? It doesn't matter." -Homer Simpson

[SaGa]

this dosint explain every thing i mean life it self (evelution cant happen its just to impossible (unless the thing that happend in "misson to mars"....and how where the hydro cloads created i mean the source of these atoms musta started some where.....or if you are some extra terestreal nut then maby thay are behind ALL of this

[Lüt]

Mission to Mars just further complicates it - because then who created the martians who created us?

[DooMBoy]

Thank you, Prof. NiGHTMARE. My take on this Big Bang thing is that God put all the existing matter in a huge paper bag and popped it with His Hand. Therefore, afterwards, everything started spreading outwards and still is spreading outwards, and will continue to do so. I personally don't believe the Big Crunch theory. Why would everything just halt and suddenly fall back on itself and explode and then create a new Universe? Makes no sense.

[Guest Darkwing]

That's a very interesting concept but even though the big bang theory is the most feasible idea of the universe creation, it still is pretty holey, The big bang theory has many unexplained elements. I myself prefer to believe in science than religion. It just seems that they just thought up what sounded the best and labled it "scientific fact". Another thing, this is a DooM forum you won't find much scientific, philosophical, or for that matter intelligent, people here. But feel free to E-mail me if you want to discuss something.