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Jayextee

I'm sick of you, all of you!

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...Kind of. I've made repeated posts about the lack of a 'community' spirit in the socalled Doom 'community', mostly as far as newbies are concerned, and/or projects without any of the 'big name editors' involved.

Case in point:
Two projects, TRTCC, and Sir Robin's KTA.
I checked screens for both - one is lacking in detail, has repetetive texture choice and is lacking, for the most part, any action.
Another has evidence of extensive scripting, action scenes, and also looks more varied and less dull than the other. WITH ACTION SCENES.

Guess which is which?

The first was Sir Robin's KTA, the second, TRTCC.
The TRTCC seems to have a lot more potential, shows more promise, etc. And yet KTA has a shedloads of comments on how great it is, and TRTCC receives next to none.

Why is this? Maybe because Sir Robin is a 'big name' and Maonth, author of TRTCC is a relative newbie.

Yet, firsthand, I can tell you that TRTCC looks like the better project. It's not ugly and grey, I can tell you.

Why is there this elitist attitude in the socalled community?

I also know firsthand how frustrating this is. Remeber my Innocent Evil project? Yeah, that's it -- you DON'T. I'm not a big name either. And was it any good? Ty Halderman thought so.

What? There's a big name for you. He e-mailed me about my project, with the following comments:

"Some of the best architecture I've seen in a while" - despite my lack of knowledge for texture aligning
"Good, playable levels" - and he should know the difference, being cdrom.com's maintainer for the Doom section.
"This should be an excellent project, if it doesn't burn out" - and guess what. It burnt out. Why? I lost interest. I got one lousy mail, despite 'spamming' the project in the forums here, and being on the front of www.newdoom.com fairly regularly.
Obviously, I didn't think it was good enough, because of the lack of attention.

And now, I started another project. A community based project, which, too, is going NOWHERE. Because I'm not a big name.

Which brings me back to where I end: Where is the Doom 'community'?

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Guest fragg

Jay... for first time, I stumbled across your site yesterday.
Wow.
What a nice place! Real cool.
And the levels on display looked terrific.
And, not so dark u couldn't see (like some others I've seen).
I also like that you're using plain ol' D2 engine.
It gives us newbies encouragement to try editing.
When I get a handle on things I'll build my wad and truck on up to your place, see what u think.
Don't quit. A guy like u is valuable.
Any time u get tempted to discouragement, remember the wise old motto ..."When the goin' gets Tuff, the Tuff get goin' ". <g>
fragg

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Hey, why dontcha fire off an email to Maonth and see if he could use your help? I've seen your levels and they look to be on par with what he's done with TRTCC so far.

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Yo, don't let em get ya down, jayextee! Lot of peeps up in here don't get props for none of they work. Look at elbryan42... he's setup an ftp site and all for da "community" to use, and the only person that I have seen that has actually said thank you to him is me! All people talk about is what they want, or what should be changed, yada, yada, etc, etc, whateva!

Just like wit me yo... after I sent out mah doom 64 sounds to about 20+ people, only a handleful actually said thank you or gave me any props whatsoever! In fact, a lot of mothafuckas actually had da balls to flame me because of da way I write! MOST people just get what they want, and bounce da fuck out, like you is some kinda cheap 5 cent, New York Hoe, or some shit. Don't stress it, kid, there is a lot of peeps out there who feel just like you about dis whole doom "community" BS!

Ya levels looked pretty tight to me yo, unfortunately, nowadays to get some GOOD attention, you gotta come up with something new and original, that no one has done good before! There are millions of wads out there dat be just ho hum, and no one goves two shits about dem. Try comin' up wit some new and crazy shit, and see if peeps out here start recognizin' ya. If they don't recognize yo skills, fuck em! Just keep ya head up, and keep doin' yo thing, troopa!

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Jayextee said:

Where is the Doom 'community'?

Well, usually in projects a person starts making a map or 2. People gain interest and join. And about big names in mapping, if you want to be a big name you have to make a few good maps that usually contain eye candy but great gameplay at the same time (exp. Afterglow, Kurt Kesler). Also, no matter what anyone says you can overcome their expectations. Show people what you can do and have faith in yourself.

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esco said:

It's hard for new people to get recognition. Such is real life, as it is here in the Doom community. I mean, think of all the talented acts in the music business that are not recognized but are actually better than many of the mainstream, established ones.

It's true, there is an "old boys club" of members here who have been around a long time and have a significant history of contributions. Thus they tend to get more recognition than someone who comes in relatively new with something. Even if it is good. Again just like real life(tm).

You have to believe in yourself and your project. You have to do things for yourself because you like doing it. If the reason you make maps or whatever is to get people to tell you how good they are and how good you are, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Still, good feedback is always nice to get :)

As for people not thanking you for sending them stuff, well that's just plain rude. If I were you, I'd send an email to all the ingrates saying something like "You're welcome :P"

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Sure, there are a few big heads around here, but we're all good at different things. For example, I know PSX Doom, Doom 64, and ripping music great, but I don't know the first thing about level making.

I can build duke levels, but a baby could do that.

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MY FRIEND SAYS PEOPLE WHO PLAY DOOM ARE RETARDED BUT HE DOESN'T KNOW MY FRIEND CHRIS

HAHAHAHAHAH!!@$#

MEWSE

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Hopefully you'll see this.
But anyway, I'm taking a small break from work on Doom Chronicles while I wait for some sort of feedback (HINT HINT everyone) on it, and as of earlier today I started work on a WAD for submission to the UAC project.

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Yeah! I almost didnt get any comments the last time i released screens. Why should i waste time, making my project global, when people don't appreciate it?

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Guest JudgeDooM
esco said:

Mmm...you havent' seen well, 'cos I've thanked him too :)

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Guest JudgeDooM

Well, you must know that I'm VERY interested in TRTCC...sincerly. I've tried the TRTCC Demo #1 and I'm impressed. Even if we don't know much about the storyline, I find it could be a good one (not like id's storylines :). There is a traitor in the game, that may sound like a cliché, but most of the time, it works. I'm sorry for Maonth if not much people is interested in his project, 'cos it's a good one. What I'd like to see is less conversation (about half of the demo was conversation between the main character - Erteciel - and his superiors :). I'd also like to see levels that take something like about 1 hour to finish, more than 1 new weapon, new sprites for the ennemies, and descent music replacement. The music of the level 1 (still in the demo) convinced me :)
Continue like this Maonth and your TC will get the recognition and the success it deserves.
And you people get more attention to it!

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Shaviro said:

Yeah! I almost didnt get any comments the last time i released screens. Why should i waste time, making my project global, when people don't appreciate it?

People like me who do appreciate it are too lazy to say so. Figure a lot of people like me check the news and don't bother reading the comments. What's to say anyways? Just keep going.

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Shaviro said:

Yeah! I almost didnt get any comments the last time i released screens. Why should i waste time, making my project global, when people don't appreciate it?

Maonth: are you having a good time making your project? Is it the best work you have done editing maps so far?

If the answer to these questions is yes then just keep on keepin on :) I know it's nice to get attention and all, but that shouldn't be the main reason why you do what you do. The fact is very few people get any feedback at all on their stuff.

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Heh, I complained about the same thing a long while ago. Now I don't really have anything to complain about when I've gotten excellent reviews of my levels as well as a few appreciative emails. But back THEN, when I mailed and mailed an tried to make someone review my levels (reviewers must be the laziest people to grace this earth - you hear me Lüt? :), it was kind of frustrating to make levels being unsure whether they would get appreciated or not. To put it short, if you are going to bother to make levels in this community you must like making levels just for the sake of it. I certainly like appreciation as much as anyone else, but I pretty much only see it as a bonus. It isn't easy. Try to get your levels reviewed, though. It will draw attention to them.

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stphrz said:

Maonth: are you having a good time making your project? Is it the best work you have done editing maps so far?

If the answer to these questions is yes then just keep on keepin on :) I know it's nice to get attention and all, but that shouldn't be the main reason why you do what you do. The fact is very few people get any feedback at all on their stuff.

The answer is, of course, yes. But what i mean is "Why spend so much time writing updates for the site, and maintaining it, if noone cares"

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GooberMan said:

as of earlier today I started work on a WAD for submission to the UAC project.

I hope you remember that this _isn't_ actually my project, but an attempt at a community project.

Great to hear, anyway, thanks.

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esco said:

I appreciate your words, thanks.

And your sounds that you sent me... I was a little busy to e-mail you a thank you, so here goes... thanks.

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stphrz said:

Hey, why dontcha fire off an email to Maonth and see if he could use your help? I've seen your levels and they look to be on par with what he's done with TRTCC so far.

I've had a *slight* involvement as yet. Mostly feedback, which is useful.

Although I've started learning ZDoom editing JUST for this project, as I think I can help...

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fragg said:

It gives us newbies encouragement to try editing.

It's probably even more encouraging when you learn that I'm a newbie, myself!

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Guest kristus

If you want attention for you work you're in the wrong community. One thing is for sure. If people like your work they'll very rarely tell you so. You think Afterglow and all the rest get a bucket load of mails everytime they do something like releasing screenshots?

I've been working on my project Ni'mrod sicne about 6 months after legacy came out. The most common treatement I got was trashing and people saying how much it sucked etc. (Afterglow being one of those people) But why should I care what they thought? i make levels for myself and myself only. When i created something kickass I might sometimes show a screenshot of it so people can see it and tell me it suck ;)

About KTA and TRTCC. TRTCC is a great addon. and so is KTA. I think Sir Robin is making his levels like I am. (I never talked much about edeting with him, we usually talk about drugs and cops ;) But I never add any monsters until the level is complete. Makes play testing so mcuh quicker and easier. Having a arch vile making you jump around while you try to look at a area to ensure it was made right is very annoying.

I remember playing KTA a long time ago when there were no Doom sources and it rocked me. It was different enough and gave me a very odd feel.

TRTCC looks great and all aswell. (Maonth: Have you added those healths yet?) and it got some really cool features. But people have just seen a couple of screenshots of this since there's just a 1 level demo released.

What also makes peoples feelings for TRTCC a bit mellow is that it used to be pretty much crap (I don't think even Maonth will disagree about this), just like Nimrod used to be pretty much crap aswell.

Bottom line is. KTA is cool and TRTCC is cool. Just that not all people know it, and feedback on a screenshot is very rare.

Innocent evil I remember. Although I never played it cause I didn't know it was released yet. I remeber my first reaction wehn I heard about it though. -Innocent evil? What kind of dumbass name is that. (No offence) Care to explain what makes Evil innocent?

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Jayextee said:

I hope you remember that this _isn't_ actually my project, but an attempt at a community project.

Great to hear, anyway, thanks.

Yeah, I know it's a community project, but ultimately you're in charge of it :)

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Ebola said:

Innocent evil? What kind of dumbass name is that?

It was a dumbass name, based on a bad joke I used to have on my site, kind of a 'mix and match' table for people who couldn't think of a project name.

Someone pointed out that 'Innocent Evil' could be made from it, and I thought of a half decent storyline to put to it - namely the UAC being the 'Good' side, but were slaughtering demons without provocation, so the UAC were the 'Guilty Good', and the demons... well there's the title for you.

But, I never got around to releasing the storyline.

As for the project ending, I ended it prematurely out of lack of interest for it.

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GooberMan said:

Yeah, I know it's a community project, but ultimately you're in charge of it :)

I know. But this was because, I announced the idea, and it was like 'Woah, great idea - when are you going to do it?'

I didn't think I should (Being a newbie myself, it seems a little hypocritical) but nobody else would.

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Being a newbie to the map making scene is the whole point of the project after all, so it's only fitting that a newbie holds the head manager position (that's my opinion on it anyways).

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