Longwinded Wadauthor Suggestion

[Guest D|RE]

I think with our suggestions/constuctive critisism Wadauthor has the potential to be the editor that "Has it all". so far every editor ive checked out seems to have problems or lack features. I like the look of deepsea, but have trouble manuvering it. Edmap is so simple but Its simplicity is also its downfall (it lacks the features the more complicated ones have).

Now if there were only a way to make a Wadeditor that can do it all which I define as the following. (keep in mind you can never please everyone)

1) Easy to use, but powerfull enough to satisfy the experts

2) a way to simplify repeatative tasks

3) a key to toggle snap to grid

4) a simple but effective way of lining up things, vertices,linedefs and sectors

5) Rulers (to be able to make exact linedefs)

6) No Bugs (this is a given, and i know this is a hard one because programmers dont know about bugs otherwise they wouldent be there)

7) Customizable (be able to tweak details of the editor to suit your needs)

8) a detailed Help file or instruction txt

ok now 1 way to solve #2 is to do something that edmap does. ok lets say you make your sector with a 0 floor and a 256 ceiling height light=100 and all the wall textures Bricks. now you want to make more sectors like that. you could save that sector into a memory (meybe have 10 memory slots) now when you draw a new sector have a hot key to restore a memory slot. (now u dont have to set all those settings. That is a big time saver.

I hope i didnt get to long winded, but i couldent help voiceing my suggestions.

[ReX]

D|RE said:

2) a way to simplify repeatative tasks3) a key to toggle snap to grid5) Rulers (to be able to make exact linedefs)8) a detailed Help file or instruction txt

2. Many editors have the "copy and paste" ability you request. In WadAuthor, for example, simply select your sector(s), select copy from the tool bar, and paste where you want your copy to go.
3. WadAuthor has a button on the toolbar to toggle the snap-to-grid feature on and off.
5. In WadAuthor select your linedef, right-click on it, select "Set Linedef Length(s)", enter the value you want, and choose whether you want the length from or to the starting vertex or from the center of the line.
8. WadAuthor and DeePSea have fairly detailed Help Files. Rick Clark has also pulled the entire help file from WadAuthor into an Adobe Acrobat format file. Check his site:

http://rickclark.20m.com/

or get it from ftp.cdrom.com

[Jayextee]

Basically, I would like for WadAuthor to become a replacement for WadEd, so in order to do this, I'd like the following:

1) Alternate drawing mode, a la WadEd
2) Manually define sectors, like in W'Ed. I know WA can do this, but I prefer the WE way!
3) At-a glance linedef/sector/thing properties in a seperate little window/toolbar.
4) Some easy way to turn grid-lock on/off (Has been suggested)
5) Customisable WARUN settings (Maybe include a luncher that can use your favourite source port?)
6) Random crashes

Actually, I lied about number 6 ;)

[DeePsea]

What "trouble maneuvering it" do you have? Are you running at 640 x 480? What kind of processor/memory? Mouse settings?

To drag anything in DeePsea, just hold the right mouse button down and drag it. To edit anything just right mouse click or press enter. To draw, press Ctrl+d (or quick double click and get a tool menu) or you can select from prefab drawing tools.

One can do ALL the things you mention and a whole lot more. Just press F11 and review the shortcut keys. The popup dialogs/ menus should be self-explanatory to anyone with editing experience.

Review the extensive online Help for details. One way you can quickly browse a windows help system is to use the << and >> buttons. This gets most, but not all, the help topics one after the other.

[NiGHTMARE]

<< 1) Easy to use, but powerfull enough to satisfy the experts >>

Deep '97/Deepsea is very easy to use (for me at least, as I grew up with DEU and Deep is based on the same concept) and very powerful too.

<< 2) a way to simplify repeatative tasks >>

This is in most editors. It's called copy/paste. It's a bit crap in Deep '97 as you can't paste stuff in an exact spot, but when trying out the shareware Deepsea, I noticed that it's better in that you move the mouse to a spot on the screen and press CTRL+V (or something like that anyway).

<< 3) a key to toggle snap to grid >>

Again most editors have this. In Deep it's /

<< 4) a simple but effective way of lining up things, vertices,linedefs and sectors >>

Umm... snap to grid maybe? (as you just mentioned)

<< 5) Rulers (to be able to make exact linedefs) >>

Yet another feature that's already in most editors. I think it was even in DEU!

<< 6) No Bugs (this is a given, and i know this is a hard one because programmers dont know about bugs otherwise they wouldent be there) >>

No programmer or user wants bugs, but that doesn't mean they won't be there.

<< 7) Customizable (be able to tweak details of the editor to suit your needs) >>

From what I've seen of Deepsea, it's VERY customisable. For example, you can change overlap tolerances of vertex and linedefs, the colour of pretty much anything can be altered, etc.

<< 8) a detailed Help file or instruction txt >>

The Deep series has always had very useful help files.

[DeePsea]

It's a bit crap in Deep '97 as you can't paste stuff in an exact spot,
========================================

Yes and no. When an object is "pasted", the pasted item is automatically selected. Place the mouse over the pasted item and then use the mouse to drag it to the "exact" location desired.

I think the paste from the mouse pointer origin up and right is different from some other programs? The problem with changing this is upsetting users who got "used to the way it works". Remember in the US we drive on the "right" side of the road(g>

ctrl+v is a standard paste command used by most Windows programs (ctrl+c=copy, ctrl+x=delete). For example, IE, Netscape and PSP use these commands. In the DOS world, everyone made up their own<g>

DEU had an easy to learn/use popup menu sequence that allowed for lots of flexibility. The actual drawing mechanism left something to be desired:)

Some of comments make we wonder if they actually read the docs or even tried a program. Not just editors, but the various ports also.

thanks for the propaganda feedback -lol

[NiGHTMARE]

<< Yes and no. When an object is "pasted", the pasted item is automatically selected. Place the mouse over the pasted item and then use the mouse to drag it to the "exact" location desired. >>

That's what I do, but it's not very easy when pasting into small or heavily detail spaces, as it tends to go on top of existing lines and mess up all the sector references :( Anyway, the Deepsea method is much better, if only I could afford the latest registered version... Bah, I hate being a poor student :o

<< I think the paste from the mouse pointer origin up and right is different from some other programs? The problem with changing this is upsetting users who got "used to the way it works". Remember in the US we drive on the "right" side of the road(g> >>

Yes, the Deepsea pasting method is rather unusual. Most programs I use (and I'm not talking about Doom editors here, because Deep '97 is the only one I use, apart from DehackEd and WinTex:)) tend to have it so that the mouse is in the centre of the pasted item. Maybe you could make how the pasting works an option or something.

[Phileosophos]

I just read your post and had some questions.

>1) Easy to use, but powerfull enough to satisfy the experts

I think WadAuthor already meets these. At least, I frequently get email about how WA is the easiest map editor someone has ever used. With regard to satisfying the experts, maybe that's where WA is lacking, but if this is the case, then I wonder: precisely what "expert" features does it lack?

>2) a way to simplify repeatative tasks

What, precisely, do you have in mind? A macro engine or something like that? Or do you mean something else?

>3) a key to toggle snap to grid

Ouch. Good point. I'll make a note to add this.

>4) a simple but effective way of lining up things,
>vertices,linedefs and sectors

Could you be more explicit? I'm not sure I follow what you have in mind here.

>5) Rulers (to be able to make exact linedefs)

I'm not sure what you mean by this either. Could you provide more detail?

>6) No Bugs (this is a given, and i know this is a hard
>one because programmers dont know about bugs otherwise
>they wouldent be there)

On this point, I can say only that I do my best. Unfortunately, however, I am a flawed and fragile human being. As such, my best always falls short of perfect, which is what the "no bugs" would entail.

>7) Customizable (be able to tweak details of the editor to
>suit your needs)

Again, what do you have in mind? WadAuthor allows a fair amount of customization as it is.

>8) a detailed Help file or instruction txt

On this point, I'm surprised. WadAuthor has help for almost every control in the interface, help for every dialog box, a tutorial, a how-to section, etc. What sort of help is lacking in your estimation?

Thanks for the useful feedback!

[Phileosophos]

Jayextee said:

Basically, I would like for WadAuthor to become a replacement for WadEd, so in order to do this, I'd like the following:

1) Alternate drawing mode, a la WadEd
2) Manually define sectors, like in W'Ed. I know WA can do this, but I prefer the WE way!
3) At-a glance linedef/sector/thing properties in a seperate little window/toolbar.
4) Some easy way to turn grid-lock on/off (Has been suggested)
5) Customisable WARUN settings (Maybe include a luncher that can use your favourite source port?)
6) Random crashes

Actually, I lied about number 6 ;)

I just read your post, and I thought I would comment on it.

>1) Alternate drawing mode, a la WadEd

If by this you mean the ability to draw linedefs by dropping vertices, this is something on my to-do list. At present I haven't yet tried WadEd, but I will. I want to make WA the best there is if I can.

>2) Manually define sectors, like in W'Ed. I know WA can do >this, but I prefer the WE way!

I'm sorry, but I don't know what this means. Will it be obvious to me once I try WadEd? Or can you explain further?

>3) At-a glance linedef/sector/thing properties in a
>seperate little window/toolbar.

Yeah, this has bugged me for some time. It's another thing I'm looking into. Actually, WadAuthor has had something like it since day one, the "Raw Object Data" window. But that's present *only* in a _DEBUG build, and I've never made it available to the public. What I intend to build is a dialog-bar that could dock to any side of the frame that shows further details about the object presently under the cursor.

>4) Some easy way to turn grid-lock on/off (Has been suggested)

Yeah, this will be done today. I can't believe I overlooked it previously. Well, yes I can too believe that; I'm human.

>5) Customisable WARUN settings (Maybe include a luncher that >can use your favourite source port?)

I'm sorry, but I haven't a clue what you're getting at with this. Can you explain? WARUN is just a stupid little DOS program that was necessary to make sure that the same code in WadAuthor could launch the appropriate wadgame in the right directory regardless of whether the user was running on Windows 3.x, Windows 9x, or Windows NT/2000. Perhaps not surprisingly, Microsoft's CreateProcess API works differently across the Win32 platforms and doesn't even exist in the Win16 API.

>6) Random crashes

Hey, now I can add plenty of these!

[Guest fragg]

Phileosophos said:

Phileosophos: re. Dire's "Request #8".

You have some small "how-to-use-WA" text files, that can be printed out.
But the full explanation (or close to full) of how to use WA, seems to be in WA's massive "Windows Help" file.
I'd like to print it out as a Word doc. But I can't. There's no "Print" Option. Please add one. Let User choose the method he prefers:
(1) Use WA's "Help" via Windows-only (the "click/click/click" method).
(2) Print "Help" out into Word.doc, stick in ringbinder, leaf thru at liesure.
(3) Both.

When I'm not at computer, and "WA question" hits me, I just pick up n'read that big Doc. But if it's locked in the pc, I'm outta luck. Thanks.

[Phileosophos]

>But the full explanation (or close to full) of how to
>use WA, seems to be in WA's massive "Windows Help"
>file. I'd like to print it out as a Word doc. But I can't.

Heh. Neither can I, actually (grin). Seriously, though, I don't really know how to do what you're suggesting. The Windows help engine does not have those kind of features. What I suppose I could do, however, would be to group all of the various documents that make up the help file into a Microsoft Word document. At the present time, that would include 70 MS Word documents, 114 bitmap files and a bunch of other stuff. Not a small project, but maybe one I can figure out some way to do. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Jayextee]

Phileosophos said:

To clarify what I mean:

1) Yes, that's pretty much what I mean, but it's more placing the vertexes AND the linedefs.

2) It will be fairly obvious when you've tried WadEd. The SEC DEFINE gadget couldn't be simpler. Take a look.

5) What I mean is that you can run the level under your favourite sourceport with the RUN LEVEL button. Simple to do, I'd imagine, it just means changing the first characters of the string that does this to 'ZDOOM' or 'LEGACY' or something.

[Jayextee]

Phileosophos said:

I think Dire means, basically, a small 'tooltip' hovering over each linedef when moving a vertex. This would enable you to see the length of the lines, as you're doing it, to get it correct.

Oh, and I have another suggestion: For the create sector dialog, another option, to create an equilateral sector with sides all x-long, as specified by the user?

[pming]

Hiya.

Ok, here's a couple...

A) A texture chooser much like DeepSea. Zoom in/out, move to top/bottom, show LOTS of textures at the same time; throw in the dimentions of the selected texture and your set. Come to think of it, something like this for Things would also be nice. Have a list (textual) on the left, and when you select a group (say, "Decorations", or "Enemies"), all of the sprites in that catagory show up, much like textures.

B) When you 'mouse over' a sector or linedef, a picture of the texture(s) pop-up right next to the mouse cursor (or, optionally, at a predefined location on your screen).

C) "Play music" button. :-) I like to listen to DOOM/Hexen/Heretic music [extracted midi's from the game in question] with Winamp when I'm level editing. It would be nice to have a built-in midi player (with an equalizer to tweek) that would automatically stop or pause when you Run a level to test it.

D) I like the way that DeepSea does the increse/decrease floor/ceiling heights thing (now that I know there is one! ;-) You simply highlight a sector, then ctrl-Home/End to raise/lower the floor height, or ctrl-PageUp/PageDn to raise/lower the ceiling. Add this capability to Things (for Hexen and ZDOOM like games), and it'd be even better. :-) The iceing on the cake would be to also throw in the ability to modify a sectors light level like this (maybe ctrl-Insert/Delete to raise/lower light level?).

E) Again, DeepSea has a great feature to draw irregular sectors using "line draw". Sounds like you already have this in the works (simply select Line Draw and start clicking at where you want vertexes to be---a linedef is automatically drawn between each subsequent 'click').