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Guest fragg

to all....a very strange QUESTION

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Guest fragg

OK, guys it's the Weekend, we been workin' all week, let's relax with something Off-Topic.
I have a rather strange "QUESTION" for you "tekky types" here.
(You know, the guys who like scientific/technical things).
It's NOT a joke. I repeat, this is NOT a joke...

Has anyone ever heard of an "invisible airplane"?
Or has anyone ever heard of a project (military or civilian) to create one?

Not just invisible to "radar" -- but invisible, PERIOD !!
If it was parked, you could walk right up to it, not see it till you bumped into it.
In fact, it would still be invisible after you bumped into it. (You'd be feeling around, touching, saying "wtf is this!!?").

Reason I ask is I have a kinda wierd photo (and believe me, "kinda wierd" is putting it MILDLY).
There's even, a pilot somewhere in the photo.
Allegedly, it's genuine and not re-touched.
Unfortunately, Doomworld won't let us post photos here (since some idiot once posted a porno pic).

So I just thot I'd seriously ask, if you guys ever heard of such a thing.
Oh well, maybe it's too silly a subject for me to be posting about, anyway.
Too silly even for a rainy Saturday night. <g>
fragg

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Can you give us a link to the picture. We can just copy the url or type it into the address bar ourselves.

I've never heard of such a thing and I would be quite surprised if something like that were real. I don't think the technology exists (yet) to make things invisible...

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Guest fragg
Lazer said:

I wish I could see that... I've never heard of it.

The URL is busted.
So, to get the wierd photo do this....

Go to www.stomped.com/
At top of page is a guy's picture that says "Redwood's news".
To right of it is a box for getting news for last 24 or 48 or 72 hours.
Click on "48" (or better still) "72" hours.
A page full of News will load.

Scroll down to "Fri. 16 Mar."
When u get there, search for title, "State of the Wood."
Then search that, for VERY BRIEF one-line reference to "Air Force Stealth" (or words something like that).
Those words, are a "hot-link".

Click on that hot-link, and you go someplace and there's the whacky wierd photo in full color.
Study the photo VERY carefully.
Please post here, wether it's a Hoax or Real--and why u think so?
Big thanx.
fragg

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I'm a pretty technical boy. I could easily have majored in physics during my undergrad years, and I've kept up pretty well while in graduate school for completely unrelated studies. Complete invisibility of the kind you describe is possible through one of two approaches: (1) perfect translucency, or (2) perfect bending. That is, one can either build something such that light passes through it without being disturbed at all (i.e., perfect translucency), or build something such that light waves pass "around" it (i.e., perfect bending) without ever be refracted/reflected.

The former, as I understand the present state of material science, is impossible; i.e., there is no substantive, completely optically neutral material that exists. The latter, as I understand the present state of optics/physics, is theoretically possible yet technically infeasible for the foreseeable future. The only known way to bend light in the requisite fashion requires highly selective and powerful manipulation of various fields in order to produce the desired bending effect. In short summary, your picture is almost certainly a hoax.

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Guest fragg
BuffGUh said:

Looks like a hoax to me... i dunno... :P

Buff, I assume you must have gone and got the pic.
You believe its a hoax, so do I. Why do you think so?
I'm kinda interested in this.
fragg

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Reasons why:
-Nothing in the picture is impossible.
-You CAN dry out a part of a runway to look like the shape of an airplane.
-It is easy to pose like that.
-On the description the poster "snickers".

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Guest fragg
fragg said:

Buff, I assume you must have gone and got the pic.
You believe its a hoax, so do I. Why do you think so?
I'm kinda interested in this.
fragg

Phileo, thanx for the technicals.
It sure does sound to me, like its as you said ("in one way, it's theoretically possible, but almost certainly beyond our present level of knowledge in science").
I assume you've seen the photo.

The thing that bugs me most of all about the pic, is you can see right THRU it.
Here's a question for you.....

If the SURFACE of the plane was "truly invisible" to the eye -- how come we can see RIGHT THRU the plane?
I mean, you should NOT be able to see right thru the plane.
Why?
Because it IMPLIES that the engine and everything inside the plane is ALSO coated with the "invisible material".
Even if I'm putting that wrong, Phileo, do you see what I'm getting at?

Even if you CAN'T "see the plane itself" (because its coated with invisible material)-- the plane should still "block out" your ability to see anything that's right BEHIND it.
Why?
Because the plane is a SOLID (tho invisible) object.
Do you get what I'm driving at?

To be fair, there are couple things things that imply the photo might not be a hoax....
Look at the impressive size of the building behind the plane.
This is obviously a big aircraft facility, or military base, or aircraft Research center.
(It's certainly no cardboard "Hollywood stage-prop").
And the guy in the Lt. Colonel's pilot uniform, has the young, lean, build of a military type.
And he's got a satchel that fighter pilots carry when they climb onboard. (I was in AF once).

And finally, at such a big installation, there are AP's (Air Police) cruising around, as well as ground crew and officers.
If this photo was being taken as "unauthorized hoax", using a phony pilot -- it would be instantly noticed.

The perpetrators would be instantly questioned ("What are you doing there?"..."Who authorized this?" ... "What outfit are you in?" .. "How did you get in this facility?" -- "Show me your papers").

And if it was an "authorized hoax" -- then WHY?
Sounds kinda far-fetched, that the photo was official hoax.
Your opinion?
fragg

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Phileosophos said:

Hey, maybe you can help me understand something then. I saw a magician doing a show in these islands near Hawaii. He was right on a shoreline, and the audience was facing some giant volcano right-on (about 10 or so miles across the sea). The last trick he did was "move" the island about 20 miles to the right. He put up a cloth and when he took it down the island was totally relocated. WTF?

Also, you say in that second example about light "bending" around the object... you would probably be able to tell that it's there because of the distortion, in that when it moves out of the way, the background changes. I remember something like that from Physics class, they used some movie FX to show examples of things like invisibility. (That was one of the few days I didn't sleep).

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fragg said:

The URL is busted.
So, to get the wierd photo do this....

Go to www.stomped.com/
At top of page is a guy's picture that says "Redwood's news".
To right of it is a box for getting news for last 24 or 48 or 72 hours.
Click on "48" (or better still) "72" hours.
A page full of News will load.

Scroll down to "Fri. 16 Mar."
When u get there, search for title, "State of the Wood."
Then search that, for VERY BRIEF one-line reference to "Air Force Stealth" (or words something like that).
Those words, are a "hot-link".

Click on that hot-link, and you go someplace and there's the whacky wierd photo in full color.
Study the photo VERY carefully.
Please post here, wether it's a Hoax or Real--and why u think so?
Big thanx.
fragg

Looks like they spilled some water on the cement in the shape of an airplane...

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Lazer said:

I wish I could see that... I've never heard of it.

"I wish I could see that..."

Heh, yes, invisible 'plane. Very good.

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Guest fragg
Lazer said:

Reasons why:
-Nothing in the picture is impossible.
-You CAN dry out a part of a runway to look like the shape of an airplane.
-It is easy to pose like that.
-On the description the poster "snickers".

Lazer, thanx for input.
I guess it's pretty unanimous.
BTW, the word "snickers" (you mentioned it) was the name of the guy who sent Stomped the link. (They were thanking him).

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Lüt said:

Hey, maybe you can help me understand something then. I saw a magician doing a show in these islands near Hawaii. He was right on a shoreline, and the audience was facing some giant volcano right-on (about 10 or so miles across the sea). The last trick he did was "move" the island about 20 miles to the right. He put up a cloth and when he took it down the island was totally relocated. WTF?

Also, you say in that second example about light "bending" around the object... you would probably be able to tell that it's there because of the distortion, in that when it moves out of the way, the background changes. I remember something like that from Physics class, they used some movie FX to show examples of things like invisibility. (That was one of the few days I didn't sleep).

That's an easy one. They just move the camera. This is how the trains, old Liberty, planes and other things vanish. This is a TV only trick and the audience is in on it.

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fragg said:

There are several reasons why this is a joke. I'll give a couple. It is obvious that they want you to know that this is a plane, hence the outline of the plane on the floor. If this were real technology there wouldn't be any reason to make sure you know its a plane.

The most compelling reason though, is that it is unecessary for a plane to be invisible to light. What is important is that a plane be invisible (or nearly so) to radar. Planes are not tracked by visible light, but by radar and heat. Modern planes are stealthy in the sense that they offer a low profile to radar. Just because you can't see a plane in the visible spectrum would not necessarily make the plane invisible to radar and in combat, radar reflection and heat are what you hide and this is where the money is spent.

There are several operational issues as well. A spotter for example needs to know how a plane is approaching in order to guide the plane on target and to illuminate targets with lasers. Could you imagine the problem if several invisible planes flew in on a target? Imagine driving a car down the freeway that is invisible.

You may assume that if something is invisible to light, it should be invisible period, but this isn't true. An object, visible or not, emits heat, and can be "seen" in the infrared. It would depend on what range of frequency this "cloaking device" would operate as to what it hides. It would be impractical t make it cloak all frequencies, so a range would be picked that it would operate at for maximum effect.

I don't think this is an "offical hoax" but rather a joke. The guy that was assigned to clean up the place drew this plane on the floor and someone posed for the camera. I come from a military family and see this thing all the time.

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Guest fragg

W/M: (".....it's not a hoax, it's a joke, as member military family, I see this sorta stuff alla time.....").
Thanx, W/M.
Yours and Phileo's answers pretty well lays the matter to rest.
"Case closed". <g>
fragg

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WE don't know exactly how to make invisible objects.

It could be made out of super-thin or super-transparent plastics/glass (ie, not very reflective either). Unfortunatly you would be able to see it because of light refraction through the substances.

Research has been done to try to make invisible objects by electrifying them (called "Montauk" or The "Philadelphia Experiment"). Unfortuatly, like so many flying saucers and ufos, we don't know if it's true. It was supposed to so exactly what you stated (but the pilot sitting in it would be invisible too).

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sirgalahadwizar said:

Research has been done to try to make invisible objects by electrifying them (called "Montauk" or The "Philadelphia Experiment"). Unfortuatly, like so many flying saucers and ufos, we don't know if it

The Philadelphia Experiment not only achieved invisibility but also teleportation. In fact the battleship that was used, was telported some miles out to sea. The side effect though was that men were trapped in bulk-heads and had their brains wiped clean, so the Navy stopped the experiment.

Neat story. Too bad it was all a hoax. :) (The guy that started the story admitted it was a hoax.)

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fragg said:

Buff, I assume you must have gone and got the pic.
You believe its a hoax, so do I. Why do you think so?
I'm kinda interested in this.
fragg

i dunno fragg... it looks like the "pilot" is just standing on top of the ladder and pretending(?) to board the plane... it looks like the "pilot" is trying to keep his balance... and it doesnt look like he's boarding a plane... im still not sure.... :P

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Guest Cybersquirrel

Looks to me like the camera position is raised off the ground, meaning that the guy taking the photo was standing on something. You have to ask yourself what a large (enough) object was doing in the middle of a runway. Unless the military were dumb enough to let some guy take a photo of their top secret project whilst being the most obvious thing around, methinks this might be a joke.

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Guest Epistax

It is possible to make an object completely invisible, but only from one perspective. If an object is properly coated with fiber optic fibers that are thin enough, it is quite possible, in theory, to send all light information from one angle through and out another angle. However if you looked at the object near it or anything other than straight on, you would be able to tell something wasn't right. If the point is just to make it seem invsible at a glance, this will work at a distance, or in low light.

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