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Guest fragg

wow. Wadauthor is super dooper

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Guest fragg

OK, so WadAuthor's power and versatility is prolly old hat to you Veteran mappers, but what it did for this map-newby today, is "new" to me and purty awesome.......

I have a big fancy Building with a ton of sectors inside it. A ton of 'em! Different floor and ceiling heights in many sectors. The Bldg sits on the ground (Zero floor-heightt).

Unfortunately I found out today that I need to raise the whole shebang (with its ton of sectors) up in the air, by 256 units.
Ouch.
And also, raise each and every one of its many ceilings by 256 units. I don't mean make all the ceilings the same "256" height, I mean ADD 256 to each ceiling's height.
Ouch again.

Doing all that by hand, would be a long tedious job and I'm sure I'd screw up here and there and have to fix things.
Enter now, good ol' WadAuthor Editor (and the dang thing is 5 years old, and hasn't been updated even once in all that time).

(1).... I "selected" every sector, then r-clicked on last one, and went in to "Properties"... and in "Ceiling Height" box, I typed "++256".
(2).... I then went into "Floor Height" box and typed "++256".
(3).... I then hit "OK".
(4).... I then hit "Checkmap" button and Wauthor complained, "Hey, sector x, sector m, (the list went on and on) are missing textures" (upper, lower, or whatever, the list was long).
5.... I hit "Fix All" button, Wauthor ground away for couple seconds -- then all its "complaints" disappeared. I hit 'Checkmap" again (just to double-check) and all was now OK.

I fired up the game and Voila!!! --there was the Bldg, no longer level with ground -- but now sitting on a 256-unit high "foundation wall".
The Bldg now had all floors 256-units "higher" and all ceilings 256 "higher".
I went inside huge bldg and checked Doors etc. everything was its proper height, etc..
And the "different-height" Ceilings, were still different-heights, plus each one was 256 higher than before. Same for Floors.
I fixed a couple textures I didn't like and was done.

Imagine how long, that would have taken if each sector had to be done by hand? Wow.
Wadauthor, yer OK!
fragg

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fragg said:

Imagine how long, that would have taken if each sector had to be done by hand? Wow.

I don't have to imagine, I've been doing it like that for years :|

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Guest fragg

Heh, heh!
Lut, you got patience of Job <G>

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You could say that :) The biggest I did was 2,465 sectors. Took a few days.

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Guest fragg
Lüt said:

You could say that :) The biggest I did was 2,465 sectors. Took a few days.

"2465 sectors"...??
Incredible. Never will I approach a quarter of that.

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Heh. You discovered this cool feature a lot sooner than I did, relative to when each of us began editing. Many moons ago, when I first began using those tightly packed sectors to create arches, I would copy the sectors to other maps when I needed to make an arch, and simply change the textures of the sidedefs. Because of the many sectors involved, I was reluctant to have them at floor & ceiling heights different from the original I had done (making the copy and paste operation dead simple). So all my maps typically have low arches at 0 floor, 128 ceiling at top of arch, and my tall arches have 0, 256. Since I discovered the cool feature of WadAuthor several months ago, I've been gleefully creating arches at every conceivable floor-ceiling heights! Plus, with the slope feature of ZDooM 1.23, the arches are smoothly curved and very convincing looking.

Good for you, Fragg, for maximizing the power of your editing tools.

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Lüt said:

You could say that :) The biggest I did was 2,465 sectors. Took a few days.

...........Wouldn't it be easier to change the "other" sectors in the level? Or were there more than 2,465 "other" sectors in the level?

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Jayextee said:

WadAuthor is the BEST. But I don't use it, because I'm a WadEd purist :D

Now there's an editor i wish someone would upgrade.... or at least squash that damn build sector bug.

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Guest stphrz'
fragg said:

"2465 sectors"...??
Incredible. Never will I approach a quarter of that.

HA! That's what you think......

=)

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Guest fragg
Jayextee said:

WadAuthor is the BEST. But I don't use it, because I'm a WadEd purist :D

Jay, we'll convert you yet <g>

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Guest fragg
Zigmund said:

Now there's an editor i wish someone would upgrade.... or at least squash that damn build sector bug.

Zig, does Wauthor give you a "sector-build" problem?
Guess I'm lucky. So far not a single glitch in that Editor yet (for me anyway).

Imagine, Wadauthor came out when John Romero was still a partner in Id, Doom2 ruled the web, Ion Storm didn't even exist, Daikatana tragedy was still in far-future, and Quake-1 was still on drawing boards with everyone wondering what it would be like.
Wadauthor was running faithful during all those years and has been ever since, and never been upgraded.
John Williston (Phileosophos) really knows, how to code.

Hmm, that reminds me, wonder how Phileos is making out with his New Wadauthor since his ISP put the screws to him with a 330% rate hike?

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No i was reffering to wadEd. It has a nasty sector building bug. I like Wadauthor but i can't build a damn thing with it. I usually build a map with WadEd and then use Wadauthor for error checking or to mess around with some of the other cool stuff wadauthor has.

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Guest fragg
ReX said:

Heh. You discovered this cool feature a lot sooner than I did, relative to when each of us began editing. Many moons ago, when I first began using those tightly packed sectors to create arches, I would copy the sectors to other maps when I needed to make an arch, and simply change the textures of the sidedefs. Because of the many sectors involved, I was reluctant to have them at floor & ceiling heights different from the original I had done (making the copy and paste operation dead simple). So all my maps typically have low arches at 0 floor, 128 ceiling at top of arch, and my tall arches have 0, 256. Since I discovered the cool feature of WadAuthor several months ago, I've been gleefully creating arches at every conceivable floor-ceiling heights! Plus, with the slope feature of ZDooM 1.23, the arches are smoothly curved and very convincing looking.

Good for you, Fragg, for maximizing the power of your editing tools.

ReX, thanks for the kind words.
Wildman, ReX, Nightmare, Stphrz, Zigmund, Fanatic, Lut, and the other senior troops have been big help.
I have all you guy's many "Replys" printed, stored in ringbinder. And use them regularly. Thanks again to you All.

ReX, wish I could talk you into downloading PrBoom (what a sweet engine) and "familiarizing yourself" with it.
Then I could pick your brain (<g>) as to "why" I'm in crummy 320x200 res. when I fire up Wauthor using PrBoom (PrBoom can do 1024x768).

Can't seem to find an (name unknown) PrBoom2.1.2 file that briefly flashes on the screen when game is loading (it says "Default Res. set to 320x200"). Dang!
Can't find it in PrBoom-ready Wauthor dir. or in PrBoom dir. (Not using a Doom2 dir. because I have the main "Doom2.wad" stored in PrBoom dir).
I've edited the PrBoom.ini (set it to 1024x768) but apparently its being ignored because apparently the above file is "ruling the roost" (i.e. overriding it).

Oh well you have your plate full, so I won't bug you about it.
Thanx again for all the help you've given.
fragg

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Lazer said:

...........Wouldn't it be easier to change the "other" sectors in the level? Or were there more than 2,465 "other" sectors in the level?

The "other" level had like 3 times as many. It was only 64 pixels too. For one little drop into the other section of the level.

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Guest fragg

Just curious ...how come you guys like Waded?
I've never used it but I'm sure it must be nice since you seem to like it so much.
What is it you like it for?
What are its good/bad points?
Is the author updating it?
fragg

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Guest fragg
stphrz' said:

HA! That's what you think......

=)

Steve, you flatter me if you think I'll ever get more than a fraction of Lut's 2000 sectors in one of MY wads. A wad with 2000 sectors is real heavy-duty, SERIOUS map-editing. No?
fragg

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Heh. Alright I should dig up these Millennium maps:

Map21: 95% complete

Things: 782
Verts: 7960
Lines: 10892
Sides: 17318
Sectors: 2972

Map22: 80% complete

Things: 850
Verts: 9995
Lines: 11973
Sides: 20713
Sectors: 2791

Map23: 90% complete

Things: 755
Verts: 3116
Lines: 3794
Sides: 5802
Sectors: 805

Map24: I'll never be done with this one

Things: 1783
Verts: 12753
Lines: 15621
Sides: 28206
Sectors: 3694

What sucks about Map24 is that I reached a WAD structure limit with the SideDefs about 40% of the way through what I had intended to do. It would be possible to break it into a hub if only we had ZDoom features in Millennium, but obviously that's not gonna happen :( so it's stuck as a tiny little place in the middle of nowhere.

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Now that I think about it, I think I got the wrong end of the sector-count that I did before.

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fragg said:

Just curious ...how come you guys like Waded?
I've never used it but I'm sure it must be nice since you seem to like it so much.
What is it you like it for?
What are its good/bad points?
Is the author updating it?
fragg

I like WadEd because even if it doesn't work 2/3 of the time, it's still 3 times as fast and easy as any other editor. Basically, here's how it works: 1) Draw your map. 2) Make sectors. 3) Change stuff. So easy I learned it in a month. (Knowing nothing of Doom either.)

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I'd have to agree with Lut. WadEd is very simple to use. Its not bogged down with extra stuff you really dont need when creating a map.
Plus you can draw with WadEd. You're not limited to starting off with a square or circle and the connecting of rooms is as simple as drawing another sector right onto the previous sector. The best part is now if you don't like the line thats between the 2 sectors, just delete it and recreate the 2 sectors into one. Try that with Wadauthor!
Download it and give it a try. And yeah it does work in windows even though it is a Dos based program.

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The thing I like best is that it doesn't make sectors on you. I tried drawing things with Deep and it starts making all these sectors for me! WHAT THE HELL IS THAT SHIT!? Anyways that's why I can't stand most other editors, you have to change all this crap around if you decide to change your mind about how these scenes are going to look and work and it's like BLEH! You're not supposed to do that in the first place!

Now I'm not making any sense but I know what I mean so there.

::goes back to padded cell::

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"it doesn't make sectors on you"
================================

Here's what "THAT SHIT" is all about. It has just reduced the number of steps required. IOW, it takes ONE FEWER step to create a basic level vs Waded - wasn't that your earlier point - # of steps?

Why have ANOTHER step for something that is ALWAYS REQUIRED?

The DeePsea interactive tutorial shows how one can draw two rooms, connect them with a corridor with nothing else really required. Sounds like one step to me.

There are various easy ways to edit "sectors". Shortkey keyboard commands or the traditional Dialog.

In summary, Waded readily crashes, can't make large levels and yet it's claimed to be easy? Something doesn't make sense here.

Stubborn arguments are just that. It's sure as hell doesn't follow anything logical. So if you like the tiny view, the crashes, the memory limits and so forth - great, just don't drift into "shit" land and invite an argument.

OTOH, I'd be happy to -factually- debate (not flame) the merits of what it takes to make a level in either and we'll see how far it gets<g>

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Guest fragg

I didn't know Deepsea could do it easy like that.
dammit, Jack ... you keep it up an' yer gonna have me sending in my Deepsea reg. fee <grin>.
fragg

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Yup, it's that easy. As I've mentioned before, the real learning curve is not some editor, but really what exactly making a "level" is all about.

Personal learning curves vary according to one's ability to relate to an editor's docs and initial style. It's not a good/bad thing, just individual differences/tastes.

Once one is familiar with all those linedefs, sidedefs and sectors and actually making levels, then it's a little easier to evaluate. Sort of like buying your 1st used car<g>

As I've said before, the prefab method is available in DeePsea, but when all is said and done, the line drawing method gets the job done a lot faster/easier:)

I have both trade-in and bribe discounts available (lol).

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fragg said:

To Change the res. in Pr Boom either do it in the command line, as is shown in the whatsnew file you downloaded with it, or edit your prboom.cfg

Look for this:

# Video settings
screen_width 320
screen_height 240
fake_contrast 1
use_fullscreen 1
use_vsync 1
translucency 1
tran_filter_pct 66
screenblocks 10
usegamma 3
X_options 0x0


Do your editing and save it.
reboot your system, and the next time you use prboom it should use your new video settings.


Here is the info from the whatsnew file:

"Added commandline switches '-width' and '-height', they are limited from 320x200 to 1600x1200."

Now go kick some butt.

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deepteam said:

Hmmmm.... Wheras, yes, I'll concede, that WadEd has to be the second-worst editor (Worst? EdMap, IMO) it's the freedom it allows when editing that appeals to myself, and the other users.

Even though it's an extra (Needless) step, the MAKE SECTOR gadget at least employs a 'feeling' of being in control that other ediotrs don't give. Even though sector building is a REQUIREMENT for WAD editing.

Also, the SEC DEFINE gadget is IMO a godsend. There is no messing with extra menus/screens/data for creating 'illegal' or special sector configurations - it's as simple as click the required line, then BACK, or FRONT.

Your arguments about a 'tiny view' fall on deaf ears here. When making a level, the author knows it by heart anyway, so there is no need to view all the map on screen. And, most editors nowadays (The people, not the programs) are Zoomed-in constantly, adding eye candy. The extra screen space is used IMHO a lot more effectively with Linedef/sector/things properties, as well as Zoom control and a miniature 'browser' for textures/flats etc. - Something other editors have to call up seperately.

WadEd remains a simple, intuitive editor. It may be buggy as hell, but there's nothing there that can't be worked around. But it's simple. Sectors can be the EXACT shape required when made, lessening all that tedious dragging. Tagging is done with the click of a button, as is deleting, remaking sectors (Example: You have two rooms and a corridor. Delete the joining lines, so it's all one 'room'. ONE click will make this lot into a sector).

Most of the simplicity is down to the fact that EVERYTHING, bar one action (The flipping of Linedefs) can be done with the mouse, on it's own. Not even EdMap does that - and that WAS, if I remember, the initial design brief.

So with it's simplicity, WadEd doesn't cut down by one step when level editing. It cuts many. And even though it's the buggiest editor there is, and is size-limited, due to DOS limitations, there is a certain demographic that will always choose WadEd.

Best leave it at that, rather than your increasingly forceful attempts to make us all DeepSea users ;)

There was your factual debate. Your move, Jack. :))

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The first thing is that you don't know DeePsea well:)

The second thing is that you resort to subjective statements - not *objective* statements. That's hardly the basis for a "factual" argument - despite your claim. Oh well - that's always the case.

DeePsea bottom displays are "hot". Just click on any texture and you get an instant browser. Ditto for all the areas. So besides giving way more visual detail than Waded (something claimed to be neat), they provide instant editing access points - plus they can be "hidden" with a keypress - "I" - giving you a FULL screen.

The "freedom" (subjective) claimed is hardly different from many other editors, not just DeePsea. So even though that was subjective, it just shows you haven't really delved deeply into other editors. DCK (just to pick something else) has the same "freedom" (and it's pretty too).

Arguing that something that's not needed gives one control is silly. That's exactly the same argument given for Deu (and they believe it too<g>). So the harder one works at making a level, the more "control" one has? Yeah sure:)

With DeePsea, you can create a new "sector" just by selecting the linedefs and pressing INS (just to pick a "simple" one).

I don't know why the "drawing" was brought up. If anything, DeePsea has more control - showing you line sizes - and fewer steps. Plus you can actually cross over a line with automatic intersection creation. You can also start drawing anywere on top of a line and it will split right there.

Arguing that a more comprehensive view offers no advantages may apply if you have a small monitor and you couldn't see the big difference it makes. The texture browsers improve enormously with a larger screen (something Waded has a crude version of - so here there is no point of comparison).

Since Waded is size handicapped, the levels one can load are so small that one never realizes why zooming to 32x can be required. Nor why a big view cuts down a LOT on needless scrolling.

Speaking of which, taking up all that screen real estate ALL the time just makes it even worse. Not only can one not scale with resolutions, there is no control over how it wipes out a significant part of the display. Dialog interfaces rules the planet since they are so flexible! Combined with real-time feed back, one get's the best of both worlds.

DeePsea has 3 ways to scroll - touching the edges (a neat DEU idea), clicking at the edges or the cursor keys. So if you like mouse control, you should LOVE that. You can also press both mouse buttons and +/- ZOOM by letting one go.

Arguing that everything is done with the mouse is cheesy<g>. Most users quickly find that keyboard shortcuts the fastest way to get around. However, DeePsea duplicates most actions via the mouse, including flipping of linedefs - it's just slower:)

NO editor is "intuitive" (subjective again) and Waded is no different. Besides a disfunctional help, it has some quirky interfaces. E.g, the file browsing support is awful - even for a DOS program. The DOS DeeP is a good point of comparison:)

The reason I wrote has nothing to do with "forceful attempts..", but rather a response to silly statements. Much as you are doing right now. So if you really want to stick to "facts", it's your "move". But please stay away from stuff that is purely in your mind.

It's funny that your conclusion listed Waded as the limited "buggiest editor" (fact) and conclude with another *subjective* opinion. I fully appreciate that it's hard to learn any editor. If one does not edit much, makes no difference. DeePsea is not for everyone. I tried to keep it short too.

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Guest fragg
Searcher said:

To Change the res. in Pr Boom either do it in the command line, as is shown in the whatsnew file you downloaded with it, or edit your prboom.cfg

Look for this:

# Video settings
screen_width 320
screen_height 240
fake_contrast 1
use_fullscreen 1
use_vsync 1
translucency 1
tran_filter_pct 66
screenblocks 10
usegamma 3
X_options 0x0


Do your editing and save it.
reboot your system, and the next time you use prboom it should use your new video settings.


Here is the info from the whatsnew file:

"Added commandline switches '-width' and '-height', they are limited from 320x200 to 1600x1200."

Now go kick some butt.

Searcher:
Thanks for the info.
I followed your advice ("edit PrBoom.cfg") and set res. to 1024x768, and saved.
Then fired up my wad.4 wad in Wadauthor (which is prboom-configured) and as screen was loading, it still said "320x200". Sheesh.
Re. your second alternative ("set it from command line") I'm embarrassed to say I don't know how to get to command line in PrBoom. Do I fire up the game and go there, and if I'm in game, how to get to it?
Or am I doing something wrong by always (while in Wadauthor) firing up just the wad I'm working on?
Should I first fire up PrBoom (in PrBoom dir.) and try to set res. from there?
Newby confusion reigns here.
(Yup, reeel Dumb <g>).

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