Newbie help

[Guest kronchev]

First off, I'm a newbie to these forums, not editing or Doom. The editor I've been always using Ed209 (I don't do Boom or stuff like that, just standard levels). I always edited on a separate computer, my 486 laptop (hehe), which worked fine. Recently, I've decided that using the laptop sucked, so I wanted to use my main computer (T-bird 850). Well, for some reason, Windows HATES Ed209, I can't run it.

So bascially, which editor would I be best with?

[DeePsea]

If you stay with "stock" Doom (vs one of the newer ports) there are lots of choices.

http://www.doomworld.com/files/editors.shtml contains a list of all the editors available - some DOS editors don't work in windows - so it may be better to start with windows versions and get the benefit of window drivers, resolutions and all that stuff. IOW, a no hassle install:)

DeePsea, WadAuthor, DoomCad and DoomEd are windows editors and the easiest to use in a windows environment. (I didn't see the last one here - you can probably find it at cdrom.com).

DeePsea, WadAuthor and DoomCad have extensive online help files. They are all shareware. DeePsea has been updated to directly support all the new ports if you get interested in those too.

They all operate differently. WadAuthor and DoomCad are prefab oriented, while DeePsea gives a choice of prefab or linedrawing. Be sure to read the help to understand how they operate.

Other editors that work in Windows have very little to no help. How important that is depends on you. The windows editors are arguably the easiest to learn - with Deth/Zeth (DOS) being at the other end of the scale.

This is by no means an exclusive list and opinions vary widely<g>. I suggest you check them out yourself and play around. Be sure to review the online help. Press F1.

[Zigmund]

Hey, How come you never mentioned WadEd in there? <g>
Oooops!!! Sorry, Didn't want to start that up again. lol

[DeePsea]

Umm .. not Windows, no help, crashes a lot, no pinpoint sidedef/sector assignment "control" (despite args to the contrary), fixed resolution, limited to DOS memory (hence map size is limited), clumsy file browser (ED209 was pretty cool, like the old DOS DeeP as I recall), so this guy would not be very happy:)

So if one is starting over (and people tend to fixate on whatever they learn first), it's a lot better to learn something that bypasses all these issues:)

That got me wondering how many of the "DOS" programs will run under XP anyway. Another good reason to learn a Windows editor:)

[Zigmund]

Hmmm.... works fine in windows for me and there is a a full help guide for WadEd in the Doom Alchemy book. Not only that but if you've made levels with another editor before, using WadEd is a breeze.
As for it being size limmited, thank God for that. I never know when to stop.... My first level would have been about the size of six of WadEd's limmited ones. :) Oh and while i'm thinking about it. Everyone of Doom 1 and Doom 2's levels are smaller than WadEd's size limitations and everyone of thier levels are great and fun to play. Proving once again that "size doesn't matter". Well at least thats what i keep telling my girlfriend, ummmm.... nevermind that.... NEXT!!!

On a side note about DeepSea's help menu. Because i use a different font and font size along with the fact that i also use a different screen resolution, (all of which i'm not about to change just to use a different program), the "Help" menu is completely hidden by a white box that says "nothing". So for a beginning user of deePsea who just happens to be using my settings, DeePsea has NO Visible help menu. Maybe that's something you would want to look into.

[Espi]

deepteam said:

Umm .. not Windows, no help, crashes a lot, no pinpoint sidedef/sector assignment "control" (despite args to the contrary), fixed resolution, limited to DOS memory (hence map size is limited), clumsy file browser (ED209 was pretty cool, like the old DOS DeeP as I recall), so this guy would not be very happy:)

So if one is starting over (and people tend to fixate on whatever they learn first), it's a lot better to learn something that bypasses all these issues:)

That got me wondering how many of the "DOS" programs will run under XP anyway. Another good reason to learn a Windows editor:)

Well there is a way to assign sidedefs to sectors (if that was what you meant). I can't see why you bash us WadEd users, I can bloody well use whatever editor I like, it's about the same thing as if someone told you to move on making an editor for, say, Q3A and not some old crappy dos game.

[Jayextee]

Heh, how many more times do I have to say that there is a certain demographic that will ALWAYS choose WadEd, and it's best to leave it at that?

I have my own... 'reasons' (Be they factual, opinionated, or just plain strange, Jack ;) for using it above other editors, like all other WadEd users.

It's like tea and coffee. I hate tea, love coffee. I wouldn't force others to do the same, though...

[DeePsea]

Zigmund said:

It helps to pay attention:

I said -XP- not windows. That's quite different from the mixed-mode compromise of 95/98/ME. Now try running it in XP to see what I mean:)

That you want someone to get a "book" is not a good recommendation is it?

A breeze? Stating that one has learned "some" editor and then claiming it is so is not very objective. There are lots and lots of things wrong with Waded - objective criticism - not just opinion. That was just my short list:)

I love how you left out some details- like version number and your screen resolution and the font you use. Really being helpful there eh?

DeePsea is designed for a minimum - 800x600 - res using a more or less standard font size. There are many programs that will look "odd" with a low res + nonstandard font/sizes. A large font will drift the menu bar too far over on those programs too. I suggest you use a size more suited to your resolution.

It's not worth crippling features to accommodate the few oddballs. Most run their desktop with rational settings and READ the SPECS requirements. So your "criticism" became a reflection on your settings and failure to acknowledge the specs.

Pressing F1 (more or less a standard windows help command) works on all systems. What you forgot to mention, is that even though the "help" top menu bar is obscured by the object sensor "white box", dialog help is available almost anywhere - so even though 640x480 should not be used, the help is clearly available.

The new version warns if a font size may not be compatible with the dynamic popup menu auto default self centering.

Level size does matter - a lot. If one is stuck with a size limit what else could they say? There are many levels that just bomb Waded because of the size issue.

Many people have systems more than adequate to run any of the other Windows editors I mentioned. They can take benefit of the cool window screen benefits, large levels, easy task switching and so on.

[DeePsea]

Jayextee said:

Heh, how many more times do I have to say that there is a certain demographic that will ALWAYS choose WadEd, and it's best to leave it at that?

I have my own... 'reasons' (Be they factual, opinionated, or just plain strange, Jack ;) for using it above other editors, like all other WadEd users.

It's like tea and coffee. I hate tea, love coffee. I wouldn't force others to do the same, though...

I'm not "bashing" anything. Don't be so sensitive to the obvious facts I stated to a guy who is used to ED209. Everyone arguing here does know how ED209 looks and operates don't you? Or is this more of "I don't know but I'll butt in anyway"?

Trust me, he will choke on Waded's file dialog. It's horrible, no ifs and buts about it.

You posted a while back claiming "facts" and all you gave me were opinions (as I pointed out). Then you concluded that even though it was size limited and buggy, you liked it. Sorry, but that is the strangest recommendation I've ever heard. Opinions don't protect you from honest criticism here<g>

I listed FACTS about Waded that a newcomer should be aware off. He clearly has a great machine with probably a great monitor. Now won't he be surprised to be limited to 640x480 and on top of that, a huge amount of the screen obscured? I'm trying to keep it short here folks.

So rather than being so sensitive and defensive and making stuff up, realize that most people are not like you. Where did I say some didn't choose Waded? Mmm .. nowhere. I did explain how/why people tend to be "touchy" defending whatever editor they "learned".

Stick to facts and leave the obvious opinions in the barn (including stating obvious same). Sure some like whatever they like - a simple statement I have no problem with.

Waded is just not a good choice if one has to learn a new editor. Hey, that's my opinion (imagine that).