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VileSlay

cathedral

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I'm gonna place a corrupted cathedral in the pwad I'm building. anyone know any good resouces for architecture, like floor plans and the like. if not has anyone seen a good one in other wads (don't worry, I wont rip them)I'm sure that a pretty kick-ass one could be built with zdoom.

oh one more thing. the level will look like crap unless I get new textures, and I suck at bitmapping. anyone care to lend a hand? I need various building facades and a sick sky flat. I'm trying to go for a major metropolis under seige by hells army look. any help gets credit and mucho appreciation.

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I dunno, TNT is pretty tight-assed about letting people use their textures and music, they're copyrighted or something. Some of the Requiem or Gothic DM textures might do the trick, though.

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you can use the eternal doom resources if you want. But I was mostly referring to eternal doom as a great source of inspiration for cathedral and castle levels.

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eternal looks cool. does it work with any ports?

* Copyright / Permissions *

Authors MAY NOT use these LEVELS, GRAPHICS, TEXTURES, SOUNDS,
and MIDIs as a base to build additional levels. Those that
dare to risk their lives...will be thrown into the Dungeons of
GothicDM2: Dungeons of Death


yeah so gothicdm is bust. I'll check out requiem. anyone know any good skyscraper facade textures? and how do I make a glass window, like for a storefront.

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VileSlay said:

and how do I make a glass window, like for a storefront.

If you're building your wad to run with ZDooM, use any plain whitish texture (such as SHAWN2) and apply the translucency special to the linedef. It will give you the appearance of glass.

If you're not doing it for ZDooM (or a port that allows translucency), get a texture like that used in DooM Eternal. As Railgunner suggests, you can use the Return resources to get the graphic.

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Batman Doom might have some good skyscraper stuff.

And I've tried to contact Requiem team members, but have not had much success, so you might as well use them. If worse comes to worse, all you'll have to do is get rid of the texture(s) and point all blame at me =)

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RailGunner said:

i guess you forgot the return resources.


sorry for sounding like a noob, but whats that mean.

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TeamTNT released a source code called The Return, which I think is the only resources they let people use.

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VileSlay said:

eternal looks cool. does it work with any ports?

yeah so gothicdm is bust. I'll check out requiem. anyone know any good skyscraper facade textures? and how do I make a glass window, like for a storefront.


Vileslay, you can use some of the gothicdm textures, they are available in gothictx.wad specifically for that purpose. The authors want you to give them credit for them in you text file, just see the instructions in gothictx.txt. If you cannot find this wad, let me know at llblakely@earthlink.net and I'll send it. It's 701 KB zipped.

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yeah I used gothictx a few times, really good textures in there. I think the return would be better for large scale stuff though.

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I just got the gothictx and the retres wads. they got good stuff. thatnks for pointing me in the right direction guys.

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* Copyright / Permissions *

Authors MAY NOT use these LEVELS, GRAPHICS, TEXTURES, SOUNDS,
and MIDIs as a base to build additional levels. Those that
dare to risk their lives...will be thrown into the Dungeons of
GothicDM2: Dungeons of Death


Bah, that's bullshit. Half the textures in there where ripped / modified textures from DOOM and Quake. Funny how those guys felt the need to protect their work while not even giving id credit for theirs. Fuck it, use whatever you want out of it.

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Go to google and choose the image search, type ely cathedral, lincoln cathedral and peterborough cathedral for some good ideas on architecture. Also most ports feature silent teleports, so you can design the internal and external views separately (create more complex structures than doom would allow for normally).

PS by altering the height of the sky around the outside of the building you can approximate turrets etc. Even works with Doom2.exe

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mustafa saed said:

I have played project slipgate and map 14 has a good looking
cathedral in it.


I'm really looking for a more traditional style cathedral. cross shaped interior, towers, a rectory, etc. I did like the grave yards though. i was expecting regular zombies though.

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VileSlay said:

I'm really looking for a more traditional style cathedral. cross shaped interior, towers, a rectory, etc.

Last year I thoroughly studied the National Cathedral (Washington, D.C.), made sketches of the exterior from various angles, and obtained floor plans. I examined photos of other well known cathedrals (such as Notre Dame) as well. My plan was to build a realistic-looking cathedral for ZDooM.

Because of the inability of ZDooM to allow room-over-room, there are numerous problems to creating a realistic-looking cathdral. For example, if the roof of a tower is spired (e.g., cone-shaped) then the tower can't have windows, nor can it have an interior. Cathedrals typically have adjacent sections that are not at the same height as the main building, with flying buttresses on these sections. Straight-edged buttresses (as opposed to the true, curved ones) are possible, but the sections under the area cannot have inside rooms. Additionally, there is invariably an underground section (below the main cathedral) that contains chapels, crypts, etc. Without room-over-room capability this becomes a challenge to create.

There are work-arounds that I am planning to implement, but they make the job much more labor-intensive.

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ReX said:

Additionally, there is invariably an underground section (below the main cathedral) that contains chapels, crypts, etc. Without room-over-room capability this becomes a challenge to create.


You can still put an underground section in, just use a teleport or a faked room-over-room (like the orchard passages in hexen) to get to it.

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Ultimate DooMer said:

You can still put an underground section in, just use a teleport or a faked room-over-room ...

Well said. These are some of the work-arounds to which I was referring. The faked room-over-room is sometimes a pain to implement, even in ZDooM v1.23 Beta 33, as I discovered in some recent work that I did. The architecture in those rooms can only be rudimentary, Thing 9990 coverage must be complete to prevent the player from falling through the floor, and you can't have elevators too close by, as Thing 9990 is affected by raising or lowering floors.

The best bet is to have a silent teleport that takes the player to another part of the level or to another level in a hub. I've implemented this feature too, and generally found it to be less painful than the faked room-over-room method.

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I know it would be impossible to make a completely accurate cathedral, but there should be ways to come close. the concept is the door will be blocked by bodies so you go around to the back. in the back there is a small graveyard. in one of the graves you find a tunnel leading to the underground crypt which will then lead you to the cathedtral interior. there you will fight some type of boss (have not decided yet), and exit the level. so some other aspects will not be needed, such as any upper floors. does that sound good?

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Rellik said:

Bah, that's bullshit. Half the textures in there where ripped / modified textures from DOOM and Quake. Funny how those guys felt the need to protect their work while not even giving id credit for theirs. Fuck it, use whatever you want out of it.


a) they put a lot of work into that shit

b) they used id stuff as a base

c) they did it for free, no one paid them

d) as shown above, they do give permission to use the stuff

I myself am not sure what to think about "copyrights" for free add-ons; but still, if an author explicitly asks for this or that (don't use it, give credit, whatever), I'd rather comply; companies rarely notice what some puny fan does with their work (in some cases they do, and they can and will take action), but other designers that are doing maps/resources as a hobby (or whatever one wants to call it) are on your "level" and should be respected; otherwise we can go ahead and start a flame war after each WAD is released.

I do think placing "You MAY use..." is the way to go for WAD releases, but if that permission isn't given, use something else or make your own stuff.

It's always cool to give credit though; it's pretty lame when you find out someone has not made the resources included in a WAD, but simply ripped them from somewhere. But even giving credit isn't that simple; you may end up giving credit for the most obvious things, but what about the ones that are less clear, even to you, like mapping influences or whatever?

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