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Complex Simplicity

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A lotta people here have crossed opinions that I would like to speak on. First of all, a game can be simple and complex at the same time. Look at Final Fantasy 7, it was extremely simple yet at the same time very complex in the way you could configure each character (I know I'll get flamed for mentioning an RPG here but screw it, it's true).

I'll continue. Let's say that Doom 3 (Doom, Doom 2000, Doom 3: Hell In Space, Doom 3: The Safest Place Is Behind A Trigger, whatever) uses the same system of weapon selection found in all first person shooters today, 1 through 0 on the keyboard selects a weapon genre. 1 would be melee, 2 would be small caliber pistol ammunition... 0 would be cells.

Taking the Doom 2 example, the super shotgun replaces the shotgun but they're both on 3. Pressing 3 always draws the super first just because it's more powerful. ID could continue and expand on this tradion as I've mentioned in earlier posts. If you like the second to best high caliber machine gun instead of the chain gun that we all know is coming then you can just bind it to a key so it's always readily accessible.

Further more, ammunition selection could be included without making the game overly complicated. Unloading your standard ammo and loading in some higher power stuff would not be something you'd do in a heavy firefight anyways so let's say by default the button would be 'A'. Press it and a small cyclic menu pops up that lists all the ammo you have; continue to press A to browse the list, and either hit escape to cancel or fire to unload and load in your selected ammo. Most of you probably think that this is completely retarded but I think it would be a genius way to exponentially expand the game's lifespan.

Let's just say that the small caliber pistol ammuntion would be from standard hollow point rounds, to flash pak incindiary bullets (small bang, can start fires, no longer made because they're unstable in storage), grenades (9mm grenades *DO* exist and they have a 3 foot explosion radius), and finally rounding it out with teflon coated black talons that shred armor five times faster.

This takes a while to explain but think of how quickly this would work in a game. You restart a level later in the game, stuck in a bad situation with most of your ammo gone. However, you did just find some small caliber grenades. So you flip out your Beretta 92F (or whatever small pistol you're carrying at the time), tap 'A' twice, press fire, and a few shots later the sonuvabitch that was giving you such a hard time is now nicely decorating the walls. This could also expand the life of each weapon type, adding slightly more strategy to the game.

IE, a Baron Of Hell takes a long time to go down with your current machine gun but with your explosive shotgun shells you can make quick work of him.

Naturally ID should also include an 'infinite ammo' cheat for this, so when I'm feeling particularly down I can run around with a machine gun literally blowing up everything I see. :)

It's also worth mentioning how map authors and mod teams can add to this... coming up with as many different weapon and ammo 'classes' as they want to. Also, I'm already picturing deathmatch levels with nothing but the most extreme ammo to make it a lot more challenging.

For the sake of reiteration and compliance, I'll very quickly relist my weapon ideas here. Use 1 to cycle through your melees, use 2 to cycle through your pistols... of course, you should have a limited ammount of carrying space so you should be able to pick and choose which weapons to keep and which to discard.

Infinite Melee
1: Fist/Knife, Pipe/Sword, Chainsaw

9mm small pistol rounds
2: Beretta92F, H&K USP Match w/ Scope, Submachinegun
A: Hollow Point, Flash, Explosive, Black Talons

12 gauge shotgun shells
3: 8 chamber pump action, single load db, 16 db, street sweeper
A: 00 buckshot, slugs, 'shredder' explosive shells... & flares

7.62 high caliber cartridges
4: zombie rifle, full auto rifle, 'chain gun'
A: normal, incindiary, armor piercing, high velocity

40mm grenades
5: throw :) , single load M-79, magazine/belt Quake 2 style
A: normal he, incindiary, double shrapnel, ultra he

35mm rocket propelled grenades
6: single load (half-life; it's real), magazine/belt Quake 3 style
A: normal, incindiary, scatter bomb, ultra he

...and you can see where all of this goes. It may seem like a whole lot of choices, and it is, but remember, just press the weapon button and the strongest one always comes up first. When you need to use some of your best ammo, just select it.

It's always been a question of mine, but what is a double barrelled hunting shotgun doing there anyways? There are outposts around the bases, so perhaps a pistol sized double barrelled flare gun that you load with shotgun shells would be a better idea. Yes, like the one in the movie "Deep Rising". As an added 'feature' the pellets would scatter heavily due to the short barrells... at least until you come across a Quake 2 styled assault shotgun.

What about the plasma rifle and it's cells? I've thought of that a little. I think there should be two types of cells, normal and double charge cells. Only with double charge cells should the BFG be the lamer gun it has always been.

Nonetheless, I'm certain ID has already thought of this if not something better.

As for the keys, it's a simple concept but can greatly increase gameplay. Quake 2 had them, more than most people think. Retrieving a 'Data Disc' and using it to open up another area is just like a key. Perhaps this new Doom wouldn't have keys, just a whole motherlode of different items needed to get to where you're headed.

"Damn. Hydrolics in here are dead. I gotta get the power back on, but to do that I have to find a replacement motherboard for the central computer so I can activate the backup systems..."

Actually, that's a lot to open one damn door but you get my drift.

Most everything's been done before. We can't predict everything, right? I'm sure ID will impress of with stuff that'll make us say, "Damn, why didn't I think of that?"

'Cuz we're not getting paid a fortune to think of it! :)

I was mistaken earlier, too. Soldier Of Fortune didn't come up with leaning, I think System Shock did. Sorry. Either way it should be in. Just hold use and press strafe. Simple and effective.


BTW, Epiphany is right. Stop that Re: crap.

BTW2, had enough of my preaching yet? If I'm irritating anyone with my unnecessarily humongous posts I'll leave. :)

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Guest JudgeDooM

I agree with you on te weapons bit, but a little less on the ammo type one. I think that one ammo type would be enough, and I never saw a 9mm pistol firing flares...unless there's a flare gun. But if id decides to include different ammo types, then, I must accept it. If it's a la Turok 2, it's ok.

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I'm glad someone thinks like I do.
I have some questions/comments though.

1) How would YOU propose this ammunition be distributed. I'm saying this because it would be a nightmare (no pun intended) to find ammo for your guns because it would all be strewn about the base. Or would you just make a clip or box of bullets for example be filled with random amounts of it's respective ammo type, like 44% normal, 17% flash, 21% exploding, 18% talons etc.

2) Bulletproof armor is bulletproof armor. Even I have an idea for making bulletproof armor. If something like a heavy storm commando (not starwars!) is bulletproof and shooting him with SMG w/ exploding rounds won't phaze him (or do any damage). Then the damage system should be smart enough to know that any or most bullets won't do any damage (not even from kinetic), but stuff like plasma or rockets would do damage (even though plasma may very well do less damage than some high-level bullets). In this case a rocket would do damage from sheer kinetic force, and plasma would do damage by melting armor and heat (possible electricity?). It is one of those paper-rock-scissors things that is in some other games (maybe even different genres) that is actually quite realistic.
This is a creature's achillies heel, an imp would be amost completely protected from fire if there was a flamethrower. A cyberdemon would almost be bulletproof. A baron would be vulnerable to high-penitraton weapons but not widespread stuff like rockets or shotgun blasts (more area=less penitration)

3) What happens when the shotgun runs out of it's 8 or 16 shot capacity. You can't just stick another clip in it, or can you?. Maybe you can pull an inner tube out from within the storage area and put another, fully loaded one in (got the idea from a RPG called "futureshadows", and i'll probably get flamed now).

4) How can a person throw a 40mm grenade safely, there's a moderate chance that instead of detonating it will ignite and shoot the grenade back at you (the throwing a bottle-rocket syndrome).

5) What about composite weapons? That's where you take a few weapons and put them together like ripley's gun/flamethrower. Actually my idea of it is that you put together a big energy gun composed of smaller tech guns that could interface with each other and when you pull the trigger on the biggest one, they all fire simultaneously (but maybe that's what the bfg has been all the time?).

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The ammo would be distributed normally, IE, different ammo packs or ammo clusters like the dropped supplies in Half-Life/Backpacks in Quake. Normal bullets are in a green box, explosives are red, black talons are of course in a black box. Unless, of course, you come across a bigass crate that says "9mm ammunition, black talon" which of course you'd fill up on it while you can.

With the level editor that must be included you should be able to choose what's preloaded in certain weapons... such as you come across a dead soldier who's shotgun was loaded with six explosive shells. I still like the thought of a deathmatch level with nothing in it but explosive shells.

Bullet proof armor is, nonetheless, made by the lowest bidder and is therefore not indestructable. Finding a titanium breast plate would protect you greatly, but, as I mentioned, black talons should shred up armor five times faster because that's what they were designed to do. Even if someone is covered head to toe in a blast suit an explosive shotgun shell to the torso is going to flip someone back quite a distance, and the impact should do some damage, just not as much as an unprotected blast.

Your better explanation of damage ratios does help to explain what I had rolling around in my head.

Lets say for the purpose of easing description here that you're running around with 20 buckshots and 20 slugs. The enemies start getting tougher so you choose slugs. When you fire off what you have loaded your character will keep using up that ammo until you tell him otherwise or he runs out. Perhaps auto-loading would be good too, in the options menu. "If fighting enemy equal to or stronger than -Baron Of Hell- than automatically load strongest ammo."

I admit throwing a grenade that was designed for a launcher is pretty retarded but it worked for Quake 2. Maybe your marine will snap off the end of it before he throws it, thus arming it too. :)

As for composite weapons, well I'm for it but I'm sure that the mod community will exploit it anyways. My idea for the second to best machine gun would be like the machine gun from the movie "Starship Troopers", in that there's an attached shotgun. Pressing reload would switch clips and then start feeding shells. Firing the shotgun while firing the machinegun would give a pause in fire while he pumps it. Everyone would love this well balanced weapon of destruction. :)

Hmm, expanding on your idea... you find one plasma rifle, all well and good. Find another, and you snap them together into a double barrelled model. Hmm... I kinda like this.

I must also mention that I fucking hate instant kills... even a point blank shot with a double barrelled should let you live. There ***MUST*** be an option in server setup that lets you choose the absolute maximum damage per hit.

Set it to 50 and we'd have a very fair game! You couldn't even fall to your death! Then we'd see who the skilled players are and who the lamers are! I just played a deathmatch in Half-Life and every other kill was instant. Damn that pisses me off. About six times after I respawned I was instantly given a facial by scumbags hanging out near the respawning points. Bastards.

If nothing else start out with 200 armor so you have a damn chance. :)

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