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Tetzlaff

Doom III needs a well-balanced armory

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A well-balanced armory of characteristic weapons is much better than a mess of 25 weapons with 50 fire modes. Each weapon should have its own characteristic function and design. Please no boring "realistic" weapons like Uzis or whatever, that wouldnt feel like Doom. Doom weapons are special.
Here are my suggestions, 12 weapons, some classic doom-style, some new:

1) Chainsaw / knuckleduster

2) Pistol -design: Desert Eagle (?)

3) Single barrel shotgun -gothic techno design

4) Double barrel shotgun -gothic "hellish" design

5) Combi gun -fire1: machine gun, fire2: grenade launcher (like Q3A); robust design

6) Minigun (Megachaingun) -crazy overdoing murder machine design (big gun...)

7) Rocketlauncher -doom redesigned

8) Plasma rifle - WW II experimental weapon design

9)Flamethrower -"dirty" design

10) Sniper railgun -fire1: shoot, fire2: zoom; completely new designed

11) ??? (surprise :))

12) BFG 2K -fire1, fire2; completely new designed

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The only thing besides the graphics I like about Q3A is the fact that all the weapons are very balanced.

I'm not requesting 50 fire modes per weapon, just two. Three would be too damn confusing, let alone half the buttons on the keyboard resulting in some unique action.

What my idea calls for is four levels for every weapon, all the level 1 weapons would be balanced, and so forth. Someone with a level 3 machinegun would have a definite advantage.

I don't think that's too complicated to detract from gameplay, am I really wrong?

BTW, I saw someone liked my idea of monsters all being on levels as well.

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I didnt meant 50 fire modes per weapon, I meant 2 per weapon, and that is a total of 50 by 25 weapons (some people wanted such a large number). But I wouldn´t beat out 2 fire modes for every weapon, it is just necessary for some weapons (sniper weapon, "combi gun", BFG). For example, if the secondary fire for the double barrel shotgun is a single shot, the single barrel shotgun would become useless. Also the systematical 2-fire-modes-concept is characteristic to "Unreal".

But what you mean with levels for every weapon seems to be something different? Is it upgrading the weapons in some way, or change the weapon, when finding the better one? Also a good idea, but I think every weapon should stay "worthy", so that you don´t have the feeling of tiny garbage-guns, if you know what I mean (sorry for my bad english).

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I've got this idea for Doom.
Right, have you ever noticed that throughout the Id games you always seem to find weapons when you need them??? "Ohhh look, a room I once believed contained Blude liquid bottles now has a hidden room with a rocket launcher???"
Well, my idea was that you'd only find weapons on dead guys or in Armouries. A bit more realistic I think. Also, have you ever gone into a D.I.Y store? There's weapons in there too! High Industrial Nailguns for bolting nails into metal! Yep, how about a section in some of the levels where there's a maintenance room with High Industrial Use Nailguns (and not the ones from Quake!) and Disc Cutters. (Have you ever wondered what a goddamn military base would use a Chainsaw atop of a ledge that needs a button pressed for the ledge to decend into the ground?)
Anyway, that's my idea!

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Tetzlaff said:

I didnt meant 50 fire modes per weapon, I meant 2 per weapon, and that is a total of 50 by 25 weapons (some people wanted such a large number). But I wouldn´t beat out 2 fire modes for every weapon, it is just necessary for some weapons (sniper weapon, "combi gun", BFG). For example, if the secondary fire for the double barrel shotgun is a single shot, the single barrel shotgun would become useless. Also the systematical 2-fire-modes-concept is characteristic to "Unreal".

But what you mean with levels for every weapon seems to be something different? Is it upgrading the weapons in some way, or change the weapon, when finding the better one? Also a good idea, but I think every weapon should stay "worthy", so that you don´t have the feeling of tiny garbage-guns, if you know what I mean (sorry for my bad english).

Okay I get your point now.

As for the fire2 of the db making the single shot worthless, well, that's understandable because the db shotgun would be the level 2 shotgun. The level 3 would be a Quake 2 styled db that holds 8 shells per barrel so the reloading would be faster. Whatever the level 4 is you can bet that it would have poor accuracy and eat up shells like no tomorrow.

This would be cool for every weapon I think. Starting out with a Berretta 92FS pistol that will at the end be finally replaced with a small submachinegun. The chaingun should not use pistol rounds, they should be separate.

Oh, and as for two fire modes making the game too "Unreal", what about Blood? Didn't that game have it first? What's wrong with Doom 3 being bloody?


gmx.de? Well buddy don't worry about your English because I can assure you my Dutch is worse! :)

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---> DEADNAIL: I read again your (very large) thread about your Doom3-ideas, and there are a lot of very good ideas! For example I really like your system of old/new monsters and their "classification", it would be great if this idea will maybe make it through. But for your system of weapons there are still some basic things I disagree. I think your main point is the idea of weapon increase: the fun of finding a bigger and better weapon during the game. But when it is the main aspect of the armory system, it doesnt really fit to weapon balance. Because you surely wouldn´t find all the next size up weapons at the same time, and so you are missing balance all the time.
My main point beneath weapon balance is that you have unique and different weapons which all have a special "feeling" (because of that I also made some suggestions about the designs) and are all usefull in their special way. I just hate the feeling of having toy guns, even if they can be thrown away later; but then you will never be satisfied with your actual weapon, because you think: there will be a bigger weapon arround the next corner. Hey, I was really happy that I never had to use those weak rifles the zombies used in Doom2! Pleasae don´t force me to use it! :) Also your idea of having a sword does in my opinion really not feel like Doom, a sword would feel like Daikatana, Heretic, Shadow Warrior or what ever, but never like Doom (but a pipe would be o.k.).

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You've got a good point there about weapons always being out of balance due to my idea of weapon levelling. What I saw myself was that all the level 1 weapons were balanced with each other, all the level 2 weapons were balanced with each other, and so forth.

This way, in deathmatches, the level authors can really help to choose the feel of a level, whether its for heavy duty game masters with a lot of skill (all level 1) or if it's for newbies that need heavy firepower (all level 4), or if it's a huge level for 32 people with all the heavy weapons placed in difficult areas but level 1 weapons are strewn about on the ground.

The balance would only be out of sync in single play, and you'd still have to use the weaker weapons every now and then just to try to balance your ammo so as little as possible goes to waste.

Would that be acceptable to you, or does it still sit wrong with you?

As I thought of a sword I realized that it would offend around 75% of the hardcore DoomGuys in this forum, so I also appended that an old pipe would suffice. Just remember that Fire2 with the pipe is block and I just can't wait for a 'Duel' in deathmatch with it. :)

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