Here's a Thought!!!

[Guest Kaopectate]

Time for me to get flammed again but....

If the whole DooM series is supposed to focus on Solo-Play...
And DooM ]|[ is supposed to focus on it as well...

Why are people so intent on making it like Quake 3: Arena or Unreal Tournament....ok..they're great games and all (well..I have my doubts about Quake 3)...but those are MULTIPLAYER games...and I personally believe that some of the features of those engines would totally suck in a game environment like DooM....


Also...why do so many people focus on what Id should do with the engine, or the weapons, or the enemies....Those don't make DooM what it is...What makes doom what it is: The atmosphere...you're supposed to feel like you're in hell...the enemies could be clowns for all I care and you could shoot a watergun..but if it makes you feel like you are in hell it's doom...


And lastly...What id should probably do is PURCHASE the assistance of certain teams dedicated to DooM II mods...like TeamTNT...who do a better job on their levels then id did.....plus the fact that Boom is kewl.. hehe...

...But that's just my opinion...

[Tetzlaff]

@Kaopectate: I don´t agree with you. Doom is´nt just "hell", the hell/occult aspect is just a part of Doom and it is combined in a very special way with science fiction and martial aspects. Indeed, athmosphere is essential, but for me (and many other people here) the weapons, the enemies, the sound, the music are very important features to create the Doom athmosphere.
Just an example: Do you know "Shadow Man"? This game takes place in hell, and I like it, it´s well made - but does anything in "Shadow Man" remind you to Doom?!? No!!!

[DiSTuRBeD]

Mappers outside ID maps better for ONE reason. They have more experience with the game. Those guys have been making doom wads for years, while ID worked on them for allmost no time, while the game itself constantly changes. That's not easy =)

I'd like to see a dedicated doom mapper take on a full-blown 3d-engine. Those results could be creepy (concidering the first few maps that would pop up that is)

[Guest Kaopectate]

OK..DiSTuRBeD...

I strongly disagree with you.
Here's why:

Point 1: They may have a bit more experience. But that may not be true...let's see why...1)I was kinda making more of a reference to the levels in DooM ][. Both DooM and Wolfenstein 3D came out before that one and there isn't MUCH difference in the engine or the mapping system (well..a little). 2) id employees worked on them with a schedule, hard to do for a team, plus the fact that people in id who worked on the DooM games had close contact with one another so that they could work together, hard to do for a team that has members all over...basically e-mail and some phone conversations if they are lucky. Also there's the fact that very often people leave a team in the process of developing a 32 level megaWAD like the teams I mentioned, then other people have to pick up their slack and new people have to be brought in...Then they have to figure out how to use the stuff the person was working on when they left...

Point 2) Nobody, Anywhere dedicates 'years' of their lives to making DooM WADs...even if they did, unless they didn't work or have school or something, they would work in their free time, which doesn't get a whole lot done.

Point 3) When id was designing levels, if somebody wanted a feature or came up with an idea, then the code for the engine could still be changed and then people would go back and fix up levels...plus there is obvious fine-tuning when it is all done. That makes it a bit easier to do something in a level.

Point 4) My final point: I would like to see a team like TeamTNT take on a full-blown 3d engine... It's still 3d, not a whole lot of difference...it just puts more work on the graphics and if any source code has to be re-written/hacked. And besides, they could just find new people with 3d experience...that's what teams are about..they change..

...But that's just my opinion...

[DiSTuRBeD]

Point 1) Mapping for a finished product is much much easier. SMALL difference between Wolf and Doom???? C'mon! You even tried to make wolf maps? There's a world of difference, the same goes for quake\quakeengine games.

Point 2) Making maps is mostly a hobby, you do it when you have the time\wants to. People DO have this hobby for years. Maybe with pauses when they simply haven't got any time because of work etc.

Point 3) Yea, stuff can be fixed, but anyway, it's a lot easier when all textures have been done, all monsters, all features etc, when you don't have to guess what's gonna happen.

Point 4) theres so many differences in mapping for Doom like engines and quake-like engines. Try it and see. They're both hard, but in their own ways. Making detail in doom is a totally different skill than making it in quake.

I'm not saying that independent level designers wouldn't make good levels or anything like that. I'm just saying that they would propably not be superior to the other ID members in any way. =)

[Guest Bobbert005]

Tetzlaff said:

@Kaopectate: I don´t agree with you. Doom is´nt just "hell", the hell/occult aspect is just a part of Doom and it is combined in a very special way with science fiction and martial aspects. Indeed, athmosphere is essential, but for me (and many other people here) the weapons, the enemies, the sound, the music are very important features to create the Doom athmosphere.
Just an example: Do you know "Shadow Man"? This game takes place in hell, and I like it, it´s well made - but does anything in "Shadow Man" remind you to Doom?!? No!!!

If Doom's weapons and enemies weren't as cool as they are, I probably wouldn't like the game half as much...atmosphere is only part of the appeal of Doom. And I like id's maps better than almost everybody else's....although the Doom64 maps are very cool.