Intelligence

[Guest DarkMage]

I think that the new Doom should me more realstic. For example, in Doom, you can take a bullet to the brain pan and not die (although thats probably because nothing is in there :P). Also, the enemies are mucho dumbass. They stand there doing nothing until you come with your SSG and blow them into a million different peices. Sure the infested humans are supposed to be dumb but the imps (which are the most plentiful monster in the game) are pure idiots, as are the demons. The reason that they are so damn deadly is because they ALWAYS appear in groups of 20 or more. Playing Doom reminds me of games like Space Invaders which you are the lone hero and you have to fight through millions of aleins to save the earth. Dont get me wrong, i greatly enjoy mowing down aliens by the dozen. However, after a while it does get boring. The new doom should have at most 3 monsters attacking at 1 time. However, they should be intelligent, and deadly monsters. They should be able to work together as a team. For example, 2 chaingunners should be spraying your position with bullets while a demon sneakes around you to attack you from behind. That would make a game alot more fun than simply having 20 sergants or imps who kill each other. That brings me to the point of the monsters killing each other. First, why the HELL do imp fireballs and baron plasma not affect there own kind? Also, does a cyberdemon ALWAYS have to shoot 3 dozen rockets blindly at you? Can't it aim intelligently by trying to lead you? Come on! why does a end of the episode boss have the intelligence of a 3 year old (My baby brother can shoot down a flock of birds for gods sake! :P)

[Psyonisis]

Well keep in mind that in the original doom and doom 2 the monsters had no AI at all. The main programming they had was "walk in general direction, when i see you, ill shoot whatever, pause, shoot again, when im close ill scratch" there isn't much skil other than dodging the bullets and such. After that they invented true AI where monsters and bots actually hid and chased you and dodged bullets.

[deadnail]

There's a good argument starting here.

Would a demon hide, or run for cover? I think they were created, by Satan or aliens like in the novels, with the express purpose of hunting down and exterminating humans. They would jump out of the way of a rocket, or duck a flying grenade, but I don't think that fear would come into play and have them run away and cower behind a box.

Since Imps are so physically built I think they should behave much more athletically. Jumping, lunging, flipping into a wall and throwing itself off right at you, climbing, and at the end dragging themselves towards you with their last strength as they die.

Demons are also physically powerful. Poly-objects in the game, such as trees or desks that weren't directly created with the engine, should be very affectable by the AI. Demons would stampede things, throw boxes out of their way, and generally shove every other enemy weaker than them out of their way to get to you.

Cyber-Demons should stomp anything that irritates it, including the player. A stupid imp nails it in the back with a fireball and *STOMP*. As large as it is it should also backhand you, try to pick you up and unload a rocket into you point blank or bite you, maybe even kick you across the arena and into a wall or pillar.

On an unrelated note I'm sick of the machine guns and pistols in ID games sharing ammunition. You should start with a 9mm pistol, while the larger firearms shoot 7.62 cartridges. I wouldn't mind a second pistol found later in the game that shoots .44 magnums or .50 AE ammo. I would like to see a high powered pistol as the sniper weapon, if there HAS to be a sniper weapon, I know I could live without one.

BTW, anyone here seen a Benelli autoloading shotgun? You can fire off eight rounds in about 2.5 seconds. So they're still using pump action shotguns a few hundred years off into the future? What about an autoloading double barrelled shotgun that feeds from a two-chambered drum that just locks onto the bottom like a magazine? Or would that be too damn powerful?

Oh, and in case you don't know, 12 gauge 00 buckshot has six pellets, each as big as a .36 pistol round. One shot is like firing off a whole revolver.

What about a new type of rocket launcher? Not those huge, heavy, and cumbersome anti-aircraft rockets like in all the other games but smaller rockets about twice the size of a shotgun shell? Sorta like the ones in Resident Evil 3, that come in a clip of five? Would be a lot more realistic I think.

Okay, sorry for rambling off about weapons again.

The AI is definitely important. An earlier post had the ideas of normal human zombies stumbling around, muttering sentence fragments and bizarre cultic languages, shooting at anything that moves and uncontrollably screaming or crying. Like they're trapped in a nightmare they just can't wake from.

Good idea, I think.

Any thoughts on my more 'athletic' demons?

[sirgalahadwizar]

Yes, Imps should not only have that but MORE than superhuman strength. They should be able to exert their bodies to the limit and not be affected by such a trivial thing as pain.
An Imp shouldn't flynch from being shot and should be able to fight with half of it's chest cavity blown out (it's one of those power of reanimation things). Human Muscle tissue can withstand tensions upwards of 1000 lbs, even though doing that would render your arms into limp noodles, the imps should be able to do that without any trouble, that brings forth a frightening issue that they would almost literally rip you in half if they got ahold of you. Imps should truly be as annoying as those gargoyle things on heretic were while still being tough, they should creep, crawl on cielings, and on the overall try to swarm you like they do on the intro/cover of the doom1 shareware (they're everywhere!).

And this should by no means be restricted to the imps. I thought the barons already had these characteristics (takes 5 rockets to kill, has deadly claws, hmmm...). The zombies should have this too (like zombies off of those return of living dead films) but not too excessive since they're only human.

As for mini rockets, they definatly should be smaller, but not as small as a shotgun shell, maybe about 1.5in x 6in. and be really fast (like the quake2 rocket but 3x as fast). No more of these 120mm rockets that go really slow and don't do anywhere near the damage they should do for their size. And I dont want to see any marine carrying 50 rockets, no more of that shit, do they have a bag of holding or something?

The monsters should also be more flexable. The cyberdemon should be able to crawl down a hallway and get you if they couldn't normally walk down it.

[DiSTuRBeD]

This goes into the monster personality thingy i posted about earlier. I think of imps as 'workers', so they just know enough to work and for some reason can throw fireballs. They are not meant to fight, but will do so...
The AI should be based on what kind of personality the monsters have. Deamons being pure killing machines would just try to not get hit by your bullets and rockets, but be very agressive. zombiemen are totally brainless, their AI in doom1\2 are just as they should be =)

[Guest Street]

as I remeber in the Dictonary.
Imps are SMALL little guys that hang on your shoulder and tell you what to do.
there little devils really.

so I don't think the imp should be powerful like above.. I think the way they had them on the orignal was fine.
of course give them some intelegence though and GIVE THEM LOTS of Agility and Speed.
but not streagth cept in there fire ball's.
but then.... claws should be deadly too.. just don't make them take 5 shots.

The Barons of hell need LOTS and LOTS of power in both of his moves.

anyhow I don't want to see them all running and hiding from me now.....

What I would like to see is them planning and going for the surpise.
me haven to search for them.. and suddenly I look up top he comes out of the vent like alien, and I'm inside his mouth being eatten.
you know surpise attacks if you make them hide..
But ahhh not just hide and when my back is turn there they are.. give up a chase a little search etc.


but also you got to think..
Cyber Demon's, Baron's of Hell, Spider Mother....
they don't have much AI... but who ends up running in circles and dodging bullets?
not them. cause you stand still your the one who looses.

[deadnail]

Yeah, an Imp is supposed to be a little demon around the size of a rottweiler's head that flies around on bat wings and pokes you with a little pitchfork.

Remember, though, that in the Doom instruction booklet it says something like, "You thought an Imp was a cute little guy in a red suit, where the hell did these brown bastards come from?!"

As for having to run around bosses, of course, they have a hundred times the hit points you do. Taking a creature and just loading it with HP does not make it a decent boss, try to compare Sephiroth and the red Weapon in the desert!

I like the idea of blowing an Imp's ribcage open like a rusty gate with a shotgun blast. It just stumbles back from the force of the impact then starts advancing again. Fun! :)

As for Imps sneaking along on ceilings, I would like to see my enemy level factor coming into play. A Hell Knight would be "Behemoth, lv. 1", a Baron of Hell would be "Behemoth, lv. 2" and God save you if you run into a level 5 one somewhere. This would make it much easier to make addons and mods to the game.

Normal imps, level one are like "normal".

Lv 2 imps are blueish and half transparant, like Doom64.

Lv 3 imps are zombified and take MUCH longer to kill. They also can't shoot fireballs at you because the 'fire gland' has already rotted away, but their clawing attack is much stronger.

Lv 4 imps, or 'Nightmare Imps' as I like to think of them, would be dead black, Goddamn near clear, almost perfectly silent, and will sneak and crawl over or under ANYTHING.

Anyone ready for the level 99 zombies in user levels? Ten rockets and they STILL get back up! :)

Yes, 120mm rockets are HEAVY as hell, let alone fifty of them. Your guy would be dragging his ass, not running at top speed.

That's why I like the 20mm rocket idea. You can carry ten at once, two full clips. Hopefully this will also keep them from being instant kills. Maybe you could even find Maverick missle clips hidden quite well... the ones with a built in heat seeking sensor. Of course, they would sooner aim towards a hellfire than a demon. Zombies would be cold, right?

[sirgalahadwizar]

*What is "Sephiroth and the red Weapon"?

*I had the enemy level factor in mind when I said about the tags... but what I meant about individual tags of each monster would make really strong level 1 imps w/o having to upgrade them to lev 2 or 3 (thus changing their abilities). It makes the possibility to have really strong imps/zombies in their own class/species (bolder and has more balls).

*Level 3 imps might very well use magic like archviles instead of their natural fire gland, or at the very least grab rocks/debris and throw it, maybe it would have similar behavior to the demon off of quake 1 (the guy who jumps and claws).

*I think a level 8 or 10 zombie would be an exact copy of the player (speed, weapons possibilities, intelligence & reactions, even apperance quite similar) but be lots tougher (like 300-600 health) because they are after all zombies.

*Those 20mm rockets would probably be shaped charge, yeilding less splash damage but making a direct hit lethal (esp. to the head). Anyway I guessed that the original "doom" rockets were 120mm+ just because they have such a large sprite :)

[Guest Street]

deadnail said:

Well you make alot of Good Points Deadnail and sirgalahadwizar.

as for imps, I just can't see given them that much energy, I like them the way they are. I just would like to see them faster with better AI.
I think thats all that is needed for them.

And I really didn't say I'd like to see them climbing walls and stuff like that.. I'm talking maby about a new monster or something... it don't really matter. I just want an actual hello attack.
I want a GOTCHYA DUMB ASS! attack. You where to stupid to not look for me here.. or you wheren't watching and left this place vaulnible! Now your gonna pay D/A!

and yes you are correct it doesnt' make him a boss or nessary hard just because he takes more hits...
But none the less I found him Fun as Hell to fight.
and you found yourself INCOMPLETE danger if you made a move that trapped you.

Either way I feel that DOOM 3 will be to my liking...

and I'm alone on this I know.. maby I just couldn't get into the game to notice how well the imps where..... but I thought the imps looked stupid in Doom64.
I don't mind there look in the orignal doom really.
but of course I would like a similar look put into you know MORE 3d Looks.

[deadnail]

sirgalahadwizar said:

Bloody hell that's probably better!! 8)

*A:
Sephiroth was the final boss of Final Fantasy VII; I thought there would be more rounded gamers in here but it seems to be full of NOTHING BUT FP SHOOTERS EVER DAMMIT people in here. Anyways, Sephiroth had a lotta HP but was basically weak. The Red Weapon had a lotta HP, and some really bastard attacks that would wipe you all out twice over in one hit!

*B:
Stats, not levels eh? Adjust aim, ferocity, speed, skin, model, weapon (if applicable), zombified y/n?, and of course the most important question, male or female? I hope there's an option in the menu 'cuz I've got no trouble blasting men all day long but I just hate shooting chicks. I like pussy too much I guess. :Þ

*C:
That's cool, a zombified Imp behaving more like a Fiend than an Imp. I'd sooner have originality than have ID drudge up old code though, and I'm sure they know that people would complain. :/

*D:
A ZOMBIE BOT OF THE PLAYER. EXCUSE ME BUT THAT IS FUCKING BRILLIANT!

*E:
Hell, I don't know how big those rockets are supposed to be anyways. I know the M-203 attached to the bottom of the MPK5A4 in Half-Life fires on-contact incindiary grenades that are 40mm. Those rockets in Doom are more or less five inch diameter, but no matter the number TOO DAMN BIG.

To picture the M.Thrower from RE3, just picture a 12 gauge shotgun shell and double every dimension. :) It's my second favorite weapon in the game, right behind the old west M37 swing load shotgun.

BTW, I'm about to drop a cool new post up top...

[sirgalahadwizar]

* Well, I am more than just a FPS gamer, it may sound sad but I have never played any of the final fantasy series. I have played an old super nintendo game "chrono trigger" though and some have said it's similar (with obvious technology differences though). I regularly play roleplaying games with some people I know and invent my own games as well. I am a rounded gamer, just not with the times on anything, about 1-2 yrs behind everyone else.

* What the tags mean is that there could be head-honcho imps/demons/whatever that are stronger, more deadly, etc while still being an imp/demon/etc. It's basicially for the map guys who want a normal monster to be stronger (maybe in the level's story a zombie got ahold of a soulsphere and got really strong).
This wouldn't replace the "multiple level versions" idea. Basicially with this you could have a Level 1 zombie that is tougher than a level 3 imp. Maybe you could have the "skin" tag so that you could have a level 3 imp that looks like a level 1 but still has the same abilities as a level 3...

*The tags feature would be primarily for map makers who don't want to publish a mod that changes the internal game structure (equivalent for normal doom would be a wad pack and a deh). If the story calls for blood zombies that are 5x the toughness as normal ones, just put a tag on each zombie entity on the map you want to be a blood zombie that multiplies health by 5, perhaps a "skin" tag that points to a "blood zombie" skin somewhere in the wad (or whatever data format they'll use instead of wads).

*Maybe the level 2 demon / level 4 imp would have the fiend abilities - fast as hell, lots of melee damage, jumps so it's harder to hit.

*Back a few years ago I was creaming over creating my own games (before I realized the potential of TCs and Mods). One of those failed projects was like a cross between Duke 3D and Doom. One of the bosses in it was a doppleganger of the player that had 1500 health (vs 100) and could use any weapon.
This is where I got the idea for the zombified player guy, maybe it would be just as tough as the normal player, but would be able to pickup weapons/armor/health too. It would be a multiplayer bot deliberately placed into a single player game (scary, used to fighting dumbass and weak enemies and all the sudden, something as ferocious as the player himself comes out of nowhere)

*BTW: 120mm almost = 5 in (well about 4.7in) so my guess was pretty accurate.
Maybe ive been living under a rock (almost true), but what's "RE3"

[deadnail]

Resident Evil 3

There was a rocket launcher called the M.Thrower that fired small missles loaded from a magazine. The missles were about five inches long with a diameter of maybe an inch and a half.

In any case, that would be much easier to carry and much more fair to play the game with!

Try Silent Hill; it's friggin' awesome!

As for games, I try to play everything. There are very few games I won't play. I don't like racing games or flight sims, and I really hate 'dungeon simulators', PC RPGs where you have to click a menu every other second to tell your character to blink only to die of an infection an hour later because you forgot to tell him to piss. Console RPGs are much more fun; straight to the storyline, the ass kicking, and the graphics.

[sirgalahadwizar]

I don't play flight sims or racing games either.
"dungeon simulators" make me puke. Those ones with a first-person look really sucky. I prefer things like diablo and stuff like that, where the gameplay isn't very complex - where you basicially only have to strategize in combat and with rationing of items (again I stress chrono trigger, it's a 4mb snes rom).

What is "silent hill" for? because I don't have any consoles - only my comp. (and it still doesn't have openGL support).

[Guest Kaopectate]

Shush!! you're not supposed to mention the word ROM...it's illegal unless you have the game and the system and purchased it.
It's not that great anyway.

I stress RPG fans goto

chat.ru/~rpgmaker
...it's a english translation of the PC version of ASCII's RPG Maker which will be release on Playstation shortly...PC is much better and you can write game disks easily....very easy to use too...

Anyway..bout DooM 3 stuff...zombified ANYTHING is a great idea...
Maybe if the player dies in a game, then, even if player loads, a zombiefied version of the character appears somewhere random in the level..it could be stored in a file and do it everytime a person plays on that level (kind of like the Ghost feature in NetHack/Slash/etc.)...

Also about zombified creatures, I would like to quote from a new game from StarBreeze Studios called Enclave (a UT type game)...
"Pain is only weakness leaving your body."...
Maybe the more you fight a zombified creature the more determined they get...meaning somewhat stronger too....(gosh the though...zombified Cyberdemons!!!! AHHH!!!)..lol

...But that's just my opinion...

[sirgalahadwizar]

I know I stuck my neck out a little by saying that... But i've seen lots of crap like that on here, anyway I deleted it because it was taking up a valuable 4mb of HD space (I only got 650 mb left on my D: drive - that's where I store all my games and data).

And that zombified player would still have the same weapon you died with... The only problem is that if you keep playing the game and keep dying, you will eventually spawn so many player zombies the game would be unplayable.

...And the zombified cyberdemon would totally kick ass. I just watched "High Plains Drifter" and some of that spooky music in the movie is sticking to me.
I imagine an undead cyberdemon with some holes in it's armor, It still has some flesh on it's bones but in some spots you can see straight through the body, the face has an evil-undead-bony style look to it - long needle like teeth and a really long face, looks like if he bit you you'd be in a heap of trouble. Keeps the horns. And every time you kill it, it gets stronger, more dangerous (faster + more accurate and diabolical) and more bony;)

-There goes that spooky "high plains dirfter" music again.
lol

[Guest Kaopectate]

Even better...since the cyberdemon would be zombified and therefore reallyreally dumb, he would just constantly fire rockets in random directions and stomp and stuff until u get close and he fires like 50 rockets in your direction and you have to like run behind him and hit him with just a punch and run away in time to try again without getting fragged....that would be so awesome..lol..

[deadnail]

YOU are going to tell ME to play Chrono Trigger?!?!?!

I bought the game when I was a teenager and had it MASTERED in two damn months! Every secret, every ending, the whole damn thing! I even had all of my characters at level **. Magus is my favorite, I love that 'Dark Flare' triple tech.

Of course I have the ROM too. It's my right, isn't it?

Silent Hill is an excellent Playstation Survival Horror (Resident Evil) style game with a terrific story, great graphics, really really REALLY FUCKING spooky audio and around five endings to earn. If you can't play it, then drop $100 on a new motherboard, $100 on a K6-2 500Mhz, and $150 on a GeForce 2 MX and play the hell out of it with Virtual Game Station (Bleem looks better but *NO* games play right). I could hook something like that up in about one day off; since you're probably younger than me I bet you could do it in two hours, heheh. :Þ

Jeez, you mean you've never seen true color Half-Life?

Then, my son, you've got no idea what you'll be in store for when Doom 3 rolls around! :)

[sirgalahadwizar]

Kaopectate said:

Even better...since the cyberdemon would be zombified and therefore reallyreally dumb, he would just constantly fire rockets in random directions and stomp and stuff until u get close and he fires like 50 rockets in your direction and you have to like run behind him and hit him with just a punch and run away in time to try again without getting fragged....that would be so awesome..lol..

Actually I think the cyberdemon would be 3 fold more intelligent - as it's own intelligence would be supplimented by a higer, more diabolical, more evil intelligence. It would be doing some things that you would exclaim "hey, that's no fair, he can't do that!"
That would probably start tipping the plot of the game too far in one direction (too satanic), remember - doom is an open-ended plot, the books tell us that it's sci-fi with aliens, but the mood of the game tells us that it's satanic.

[Guest Kaopectate]

Hrmm..I see how many people say that Doom is satanic and the book says aliens...but then I have a question for you?

Where the hell did all those Megaspheres come from???

Maybe it is aliens (that would explain some about Phobos and Deimos)...also that would lead people to believe that if it is satanic, then earth had prior dealings with these aliens and the ideas of them as demons worked their way into human culture (hey, that leaves room for some prequels and kewl TCs...lol)...

...But that's just my opinion...

[sirgalahadwizar]

I have been known to have bizarre philosophies about everything to those around me. My philosophy about doom is that maybe that the plot is BOTH satanic and sci-fi. I know that sounds crazy but maybe it works out right.

*In doom (first 3 episodes) it can reasonably be assumed that the aliens detected the gate activity by the UAC and found a chance to send in their troops (imps, "demons", etc.) in advance of landing ships. Nothing in those episodes seems too satanic (sure there are lots of pentagrams and stuff, but they were put there to scare the bases' inhabitants).

*But in doom2 there seems to be an even darker presence in the game, Including the final boss. The archvile and pain elemental both seem magical in some capacity and I find it hard to believe that aliens would be able to engineer creatures that have magical capabilities (ok, the archvile could be explained away as having psychic/psionic powers, but the pain elemental just isn't right!).

My idea is that the aliens clear out the mars moon bases and head to earth, but while on earth they progressivly come under the influence of an evil, unseen force that takes control of the troops (imps, monsters, etc.) away from their alien creators. This would explain the final boss (something finally coelessed into that head thing so as to have a greater control grip on those armies). Maybe there was an evil force already on earth. But needed the death and suffering of the human race to rear it's ugly head and take over, the alien armies made that possible. It fed on the pain and grew more powerful until it finally condensed itself into something 'real' from which it could command from in the real world.

The "soulspheres" are said to contain a soul of someone and that's why it heals you so much. This gives credit to the satanic side.

[Guest Street]

deadnail said:

yo Deadnail who you talking to?
ahh I should read through the whole thing and such but ahhh.

Anyways you ain't bad mouthing Chrono Trigger now are yah?
Cause as an RPG is a great game (Not to get off topic by the way)
Other then Daggerfall and Zelda games it is my favoirt RPG.
and hehehe 2 months if you think your bragging, its not.
I've never had a game take me more then 2 months.

Unfortinly I can't see Half Life's true graphics.. I thought what I had was true graphics but after I looked at a screen shot.. I've seen that my graphics suck to what it is supossed to be... Hell I thought i had the most uptodate Game Cards.


Anyhow I think along the lines Doom should come out to be more like Half-Life with a few ajustments.
I've always taken Half-Life as a Remake to Doom in some ways.
I mean similar story by the way.

[deadnail]

Maybe.

I'm not bad mouthing Chrono Trigger. I beat the game in less than a week, a school week nonetheless. I mean that I found every secret in the game, on my own, in less than two months. My friend bought the Game Book and I read it after I found everything and I did.

Is is a good RPG. I prefer the Seiken Densetsu series myself. Legend of Mana is awesome!

Shh about Half-Life.
You'll probably get flamed mentioning that game on this board. :/

[Guest Street]

Legend of Mana is a game i've always wanted to try but never got the chance to.

And I've never heard of the other one. And I never could get into the final Fantasy series.. I keep on trying to get into thoughs games but I still came with the factor that I just can't stand them.
but hten I haven't tried any of them since Final Fantasy 3 on SNES (Which I guess is actully Final Fantasy 6)
so I guess I do need to try Final Fantasy 7 and 8. but I was playing one of the Final Fantasy games oN NES and Right away REALLY SOON into the game It starts rolling the end credits seeming like i beat it that early. I was like COME ON!


Have you yet tried The Elder Scrolls Chapter 2 Daggerfall?
that is my favoirt RPG and Possibly My Favoirt game ever.
only they have to many bugs in the damned game.

ahhh I'm trying not to get into rpg's.
hehehe but I'm an all type gamer.
though I do not like the idea to try and combine RPG games with action games like Doom.

[sirgalahadwizar]

deadnail said:

Maybe.

I'm not bad mouthing Chrono Trigger. I beat the game in less than a week, a school week nonetheless. I mean that I found every secret in the game, on my own, in less than two months. My friend bought the Game Book and I read it after I found everything and I did.

Is is a good RPG. I prefer the Seiken Densetsu series myself. Legend of Mana is awesome!

Shh about Half-Life.
You'll probably get flamed mentioning that game on this board. :/

I beat it in about a week too. I just haven't found everything in it yet. I know of only two endings - after you kill lavos, and after you die.

[deadnail]

Street said:

Legend of Mana is a game i've always wanted to try but never got the chance to.

And I've never heard of the other one. And I never could get into the final Fantasy series.. I keep on trying to get into thoughs games but I still came with the factor that I just can't stand them.
but hten I haven't tried any of them since Final Fantasy 3 on SNES (Which I guess is actully Final Fantasy 6)
so I guess I do need to try Final Fantasy 7 and 8. but I was playing one of the Final Fantasy games oN NES and Right away REALLY SOON into the game It starts rolling the end credits seeming like i beat it that early. I was like COME ON!


Have you yet tried The Elder Scrolls Chapter 2 Daggerfall?
that is my favoirt RPG and Possibly My Favoirt game ever.
only they have to many bugs in the damned game.

ahhh I'm trying not to get into rpg's.
hehehe but I'm an all type gamer.
though I do not like the idea to try and combine RPG games with action games like Doom.

CT has a lot of endings. When you beat it the option for New Game+ appears at the loading screen. Choose it then choose the save data... you start a new game with all of your levels and equipment. Now, at the Millenial Fair, you can warp to Lavos anytime you want to! Depending on the time you beat him will change the ending. There's around 11 in the english version I think, 13 in the full japanese game. Kill Lavos off during the battle between the cave people and the reptites and you get the reptite ending. Kill Lavos right after killing Magus with Frog alone and you get a really cool ending. Experiment!

Personally, my favorite is the one where Crono and Marle are floating over the fair on balloons. Really it seems to me to be the most romantic one. I figure after all the shit he just went through Crono could use some tail. :Þ

Legend of Mana is really cool, even though my first time through only took me fourteen hours to beat it. Yikes! Much shorter than Secret of Mana, but then again, it's also MUCH more complex too!

As for Final Fantasy that wasn't the ending bucko, THAT WAS THE TITLE SCREEN. You've got another week of dungeons and dragons to cut a path through! Careful when you get to the War Mechs, they're a pain in the ass! BTW, the strongest character possible is a Black Belt at level 50. One critical hit will do 1280 damage and actually kill Chaos, the last boss, in one hit!

Never tried 'The Elder Scrolls Chapter 2 Daggerfall'. It's not one of those shitty 'Dungeon Simulators' where it's first person and you have to press NNNENNW to travel in directions is it? 'Cuz if it is I can tell ya right now I couldn't care less.

That's not an RPG, that's a migraine.

[Guest Street]

well in Final Fantasy 3 NES ummm it was right after I fought this one guy that these credits started coming down.
and it wasn't the computer playing.
Maby I just wasn't supossed to fight him yet. but still.

anyhow, Daggerfall is a 3d First Person RPG.
it is almost Virtual reality.
You can buy houses horses, ships. its not really like UO.. and you don't type letters in to move or tell which direction you want to go. I hate them things too.
you move by pressing forward you move backwards by pressing backwards you shaft you run you jump you swim.
Then you can pretty much control your weapon.

Actully deadnail if you haven't played it yet I think you should try it. Its only about 20 dollars at the most in stores now. It is worth every penny and if you need a little more convicing look at its review's. It Won RPG and I think Game Of the Year by all the major awards.
But I think many are turned off by its graphics when looking at the box.. still I say its the best game other then the fact it comes with a SHIT LOAD OF bugs!
and one hard thing to deal with is the damn dungons are FREAKING HUGE!
oh yah you don't even have to go through the story, you can go anywhere do anything. but you can also go with the quest which may seem easy and not long. but trust me IT IS LONG!
I'd like to see you beat it in one month. I haven't beat it yet.. but thats because I don't want to. I love just rolling around.
another thing to look at. I've had the game for 4 years now. I STILL HAVE THINGS i'm learning. A few months back I learned that if your bitten by a vampire or a werewolf (Or bore) you will turn into them and have to hunt and kill to sleep or stay alive.
Ahhh enough said I know.

[deadnail]

Sorry man, games like that are a nightmare for me. I prefer the games to have a purpose, not just rolling around gigantic dungeons.

The dungeon mode in Ehrgiez is enough for me!

[Guest Street]

Like I said just give it a try.

I mean come on you got to be up to try alot of things even if it isn't your brand.

[deadnail]

No I don't think I will give it a try. I've played several of those Dungeon Simulators and they all irritate me to no end.

As for trying things not my brand, I do, a lot. Old Gold cigarettes are a good, cheap alternative to Marlboros. However, that same argument could be made about anal sex so again, no thanks! I'll pass!

[Guest Street]

This is Not a Dungeon Simulator.