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Why a railgun WON'T be in the new game

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I for one doubt that there will be a railgun in the new Doom game. Why?

Well, personally I hardly ever used Q2's railgun in single player. It might work in DM when there's only a few enemies around, but in single player when there's several enemies on screen at a time, by the time you've fragged one, the others will probably have taken you out. The only times I ever used it were if I was low on ammo for other weapons, and to take out the stabilisers in one of the levels in the Ground Zero add-on pack.

Bearing in mind that the new Doom game will most likely have far more creatures around at a time than in Q2, the problem would be even worse. I would imagine that most (if not ALL) the weapons in the new game will be relatively fast firing, OR do a lot of damage on a large-ish scale (as with the SSG and BFG).

As the game is supposedly going to concentrate on SP rather than DM, lets hope that ID come to the same conclusion that I have.

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That sounds right all around. I agree with your commentary on railguns 100%.

Just a sidethought, side-by-side double barelled shotguns are bird guns. Over-and-under double barrelled shotguns are the real heavy hitters. Maybe there should be an over-and-under shotgun instead. They're easier to reload, have an lighter recoil, and keep the shot a lot closer together.

As for all around shotgun styles to use in the game, I've seen a ton of them. I've seen revolver shotguns, pump-action, autoloaders, clip fed autoloaders, and drum fed autoloaders. I haven't seen a belt fed autoloader but that sounds cool. And as for multiple barrelled shotguns, I've seen side-by-side and over-and-under double barrelled in all different sizes, stocks, handles, and gauges. 4 to 8 barrelled shotguns, called Liberator shotguns, also exist although they were determined unsatisfactory in combat situations by the US Army during Vietnam. Remington made them but never went into full production due to the army saying, "Uh, they suck. Forget it." ;)

Perhaps the Benelli wouldn't be a bad choice. Autoloaders aren't issued because they fail under most military situations. Get mud in them and it's a lot harder to fire them again than a pump action is. Benelli, however, makes a shotgun that has both autoloading and pump action mechanisms built in. Makes a handy alternate fire: switching fire modes. Pump action will work underwater, and in mud, and is a little friendlier with your ammo. Autoloading is only for 'clean' areas, and you stand a better chance of wasting your ammo because of the aiming jerk, but you stand a helluva better chance when surrounded by demons!

There we go! The best of both worlds. What's wrong with that?

You're right about the railgun. If there's *ANYTHING* that could be used as a sniper weapon in Doom 3 it should be a Magnum pistol, preferably a high caliber revolver.

From a gameplay stance, revolvers have better aim than an automatic. They take longer to reload and hold fewer rounds though, so that should help to keep campers down. I would prefer it without any form of magnification... just so long as you really aim right down the barrel.

Besides, a .44 CB Magnum or a .50 BMG revolver would certainly put anything down with a single shot. Even a tank. The kickback would send your aim straight up to help negate follow up shots, giving survivors a half-way decent chance of escape.

Well, that really doesn't belong in Doom and I know it. But it's a helluva lot better than a railgun!

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Guest TossMonkey

Ummmm Theres a fault in what NiGHTMARE is saying quake2 didn't have about 50 badguys in a mass crowd at any one time did it? and the railgun can fire through all of them till it hits a wall!! so why not? Its not fast at reloading but it can slice through a shitload of enemies so I think that more than makes up for the slow reload.
I don't know why everyone moans when people say railgun or bfg or unrealistic weapons or macubus or some other shit. Just face it that if it isn't in then someone will make it anyway!!! You guys have been playing doom for too long!!! try half-life, SoF, Quake3, Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex, heretic2 and others (stay well clear of daikatana). You need to get some variety!! I have said before that this will most likely not have realistic weapons! more futurey (my word) weapons will most likely be on the agenda!! if you want realism try SoF or Counter-Strike mod for half-life!!!!!! this is Doom for christs sake. Its set in the future. I know there shouldnt be a shotgun. oh god!!!

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I would think that it would be very hard to get all the nearby enemies in a straight line. They'd be all over the place normally.

And anyway, in later levels, when the tougher enemies start to appear, they can absorb several railgun hits and so the railgun doesn't travel through them.

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TossMonkey said:

*Shotguns will exist in the future because of all the "cheap" damage you can cause with them. They are crude but effective weapons. Shotguns will exist as long as there are still people un-armored and vulnurable to them (padded armor renders them completly useless though).

*Because of the nature of the way doom monsters behave (from past experience and in new engines like edge), railgun wouldn't be very effective unless you tried to hit something far away or lotsa enemies in a narrow hallway (and it would only go through about 8 of them/shot anyways).
It would be almost completely useless against larger mosnters like barons, or bosses (cybers/spiders) because of the vast toughness they possess. Cybers and barons will probably be more creative with the ways they attack anyway, thwarting long-range prancing.

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TossMonkey said:

Maybe it's just me but in the couple of times I played through Quake 2 I never fought more than four enemies at once... and when I did, they were spread apart rather far in a large area. Maybe I'm forgetting a specific scene or two but the enemy encouters are rather sparse.

I have SoF, Half-Life, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Heretic 2, and others including SiN. I also have over $3000 sunk into my console collection that spreads across the three major brands. I get plenty of variety, bucko. I'll get Deus Ex when it gets cheap in a year or two. I don't feel like supporting a company like Ion Storm.

Of all the aforementioned games, the best would be System Shock 2, Half-Life, SiN, and Heretic 2. After playing through all of them regularly my expectations have been raised somewhat. If you like Doom then you OWE it to yourself to own these four games.

Hell, I just played through Legend Of Mana for the fourth time. I'm about to run out and get Chrono Cross, right after I play through Einhander again. Damn that game is addicting.

As for the unrealistic weapons, I hate them. I feel that gigantic weapons that never reload and behave completely surrealistically DETRACT from gameplay and the immersion factor. Most of these games are perpetrators, however.

You'd figure that if you're a company and you're gonna sink a few million dollars into the development of a game where you're ALWAYS staring down the barrel of a gun would at least go to a shooting range and realize how guns work. The machine gun in SiN has the Bolt too far away from the magazine, and even worse, it doesn't jump when you fire! So how do the bullets get in there, guys? Don't even get me started about the brass coming out from the center of the gun, and never from the ejection port. For Christ's sake, if they can do it in Resident Evil on the PSX then they can do it in Quake!

As for realism, Rainbow Six or Infiltration for UT has the ball covered rather well. They're only fun for multiplayer, though, as single player is frustrating as hell when 1 shot always kills you and you have to clear out around thirty guys each having an MP5 and the fuckers don't miss. Rainbow Six for Dreamcast is probably the WORST port ever made. X is backpedal and A is forward? Who the hell came up with that?!

I never said there shouldn't be a shotgun. I generally love the ultra-close range high impact concept of a shotgun. Doom 3 not only must, but WILL have a shotgun weapon. If not tradtional then in some other form.

I'm all for more futuristic weapons. Some things should be the same, though. After all, the Plasma Rifle has to get it's juice from SOMEWHERE.

Damn, even sirgalahadwizar thought I said that there shouldn't be a shotgun. Read my post again; I never said that there shouldn't be a shotgun! Jesus.

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Guest GazG

maybe if doom3 has a weapons system similar to soldier of fortune, where you can hold only a certain amount of weapons, but you can chuck away guns if you wanna pick up a different gun, then the railgun would be viable. if there was a level that had a opportunity to snipe a few baddies, the levels designers could wack in a dead guy with a railgun sitting next to him. u pick up his railgun, snipe a couple baddies, then chuck it away.

btw, nightmare has v good point there bout railgun use in q2.

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