The best FPS in history...

[deadnail]

...is System Shock 2. There is no doubt of it.

Whereas some games tried to meld RPG elements in, like Theif, they usually ripped out the action. In System Shock 2, the action is there. The game itself may seem complicated in your training and 4 year service (takes 10 minutes), but once you get into it it's no problem.

So, what does Doom 3 need to learn from this?
• Leaning around corners has to be there. Should be controlled like Soldier of Fortune, hold 'use' and press strafe left or right to lean. Extremely handy.
• Hacking. Not a direct copy, that would take too much from the Doom feel. Instead, it should be a simple, non-controllable but yet time consuming while you're unarmed task of rewiring a broken wirebox to get the door to open. Press 'use' on a damaged door switch to put away your weapon and try to rewire it until it opens.
• The ability to take many things as health items. In SS2, drinking a can of coke doesn't produce immidate effects, but instead ups your health by 1 every few seconds for a little bit of time. I never thought I'd be buying a bag of potato chips in an action game. Well, aside from Blake Stone.
• The pistol should have a switch between safety (unused), single shot and triple shot. Simple as that. When using two pistols you should be able to target two enemies with damaged aim.
• Dare I say it, SS2's creepy environment is more prevalent that Doom's. Needless to say, iD needs to really expand on the, "alone and trapped in a confined area with demons from hell".
• The ability to become a zombie, perhaps by an enemy that controls the zombies in the level. Your health drains slowly and your speed and reloading abilities wither until you either find clean water or some other sort of cure. Perhaps this doesn't belong in Doom, but imagine hectically running past demons and imps while desperately searching to rid the disease.
• Small, difficult to hit enemies. Hell would do more than just release wave after wave of powerful, easy targets. There's more than one way to skin a person.
• Multiple ammunition! In SS2, the pistol has normal and armor-piercing rounds. The shotgun has rifled slugs and anti-personell pellet shot.



While I'm at it, lemme state:
• A concussion weapon. Shoots a blue, instantaneous beam that only does as much damage as a shotgun blast but sends the victim FLYING, into walls for more damage or right off of a ledge. Could look more futuristic than a plasma rifle. Imagine a crowd of enemies rushing you, each with one of these.
    I'm not trying to copy the shock rifle out of Unreal, not by a long shot. That's too strong, it's trying to be a railgun clone. I want an instantaneous, but not very strong weapon. The purpose? Send your victims flying. Literally. A direct hit should send your adversary through the air like a punted football!


Lüt, the Butterfly F/X CD isn't too bad, it's just completely different from their original style is all. I still have Trebraruna bouncing through my head.

[Lüt]

deadnail said:

Lüt, the Butterfly F/X CD isn't too bad, it's just completely different from their original style is all. I still have Trebraruna bouncing through my head.

Right, well it sure isn't the worst album ever made, but what is missing is their song-writing. I know people didn't like Sin/Pecado because of the style of the music they covered (I did), but regardless of the style, their musicianship was incredible. Now with Butterfly Effect... sure, it's heavier, but they've gone from, say, college-level talent down to 3rd grade. Did you ever notice that there are only 2 types of songs on that album? Slow verse/loud chorus and slow all the way through? They're all basically the same thing and most of them only have 3 or 4 notes for the duration, if that. The guys even look laughable in their band portraits. I've lost any respect for them, even though I still love most of their old stuff.

[Tetzlaff]

That all sounds right, leaning arround corners, different health items, variation on the pistol (the original Doom pistol was the only useless weapon in game)multiple ammo. But how to aim at two different targets? Right target mouse, left some keys?

Hmm, think I have to get Sytem Shock 2 for myself.

[Lüt]

Tetzlaff said:

(the original Doom pistol was the only useless weapon in game)

On the contrary, I use the pistol for at least 50% of the guys I fight per game. As long as you're not using cheats, pistol is rather useful.

[Tetzlaff]

I do of cause not use cheats! But I dont waste ammo. When playing Doom, I always had enough shells in the barrel of my shotgun. And I used all the tiny pistol bullets later for the chaingun.

[Lüt]

I only use chaingun on the bigger guys like cacodemons and on up. Demons, imps, troopers, sergeants, chaingunners, specters, etc. all get the pistol treatment from me so I don't waste bullets on them with the chaingun rapidfiring. Provided they don't come in large amounts, of course.

[Gokuma]

Lüt said:

On the contrary, I use the pistol for at least 50% of the guys I fight per game. As long as you're not using cheats, pistol is rather useful.

The pistol is also great for humiliating someone trying to hit you with rockets in wide open space.

[Guest JudgeDooM]

The ability to transform yourself in a zombie is too Sin-ish. But I've also thought of it, for the multiplayer. Look, this multiplayer mode would be called "monster", as you walk on the "monster" item, you become a baron of hell, for, let's say...45 seconds and you're almost invincible and you can only fire the green fireballs and they'd do much damage. Unfortunately, you couldn't move as fast as a space marine. That would be the not-good point of transforming yourself into the baron o' hell. What do you think of it?

[Lüt]

Gokuma said:

The pistol is also great for humiliating someone trying to hit you with rockets in wide open space.

Hell yeah :)

When I played friends on my two computers years ago when I was still in school, they would always have BFGs, Plasma Guns, Rocket Launchers, etc. and I would always take them down with pistols.

Whenever we played DM, that is. Co-op was usually the fun stuff.

[deadnail]

JudgeDooM said:

The ability to transform yourself in a zombie is too Sin-ish. But I've also thought of it, for the multiplayer. Look, this multiplayer mode would be called "monster", as you walk on the "monster" item, you become a baron of hell, for, let's say...45 seconds and you're almost invincible and you can only fire the green fireballs and they'd do much damage. Unfortunately, you couldn't move as fast as a space marine. That would be the not-good point of transforming yourself into the baron o' hell. What do you think of it?

Thank you very much. You are a genious. I love that idea. The 'cacodemon' morph item lets you fly at walking speed and hurl big fireballs... hmm... damn, that's just too kickass!

[Tetzlaff]

Lüt said:

I only use chaingun on the bigger guys like cacodemons and on up. Demons, imps, troopers, sergeants, chaingunners, specters, etc. all get the pistol treatment from me so I don't waste bullets on them with the chaingun rapidfiring. Provided they don't come in large amounts, of course.

I also don´t wast ammo with the chainguns rapid firing, because it has no spin off delay. This definately must be changed on Doom3´s heavy rapid firing weapon (Minigun? Chaingun? Nailgun? We will see)

[sirgalahadwizar]

JudgeDooM said:

The ability to transform yourself in a zombie is too Sin-ish. But I've also thought of it, for the multiplayer. Look, this multiplayer mode would be called "monster", as you walk on the "monster" item, you become a baron of hell, for, let's say...45 seconds and you're almost invincible and you can only fire the green fireballs and they'd do much damage. Unfortunately, you couldn't move as fast as a space marine. That would be the not-good point of transforming yourself into the baron o' hell. What do you think of it?

I already thoguht of the "baron mode", look into previous posts like the big one with ~40 replies about sending an e-mail to ID.

Invincible, baron scratch & baron fireball, move as fast as player, your fireball moves 2x as fast as normal baron fireball, mode lasts for 30 seconds. It's a sphere thingy like the megasphere or invulnerability sphere.

Everybody forgot about being KNOCKED OUT!!! damit
If you take a shotgun blast and have armor on, it won't kill you but will instead knock you out. Maybe screen goes black, and when you wakeup, your in some weird demon ritual/contraption and have lost everything (even clothes!, mebe not...).