Read if you want Doom 3 to be like Doom

[NiGHTMARE]

I know as much as any other non ID person about the game, but I can tell you now that Doom 3 is NOT going to be like Doom or Doom 2.

It has been many years since the first two games were released, and releasing something that is as different from Doom 2 as Doom 2 was from Doom just won't work, for the following reasons:

1) There have been HUGE technological advances in the several years since Doom 1 was first released. These include, but are not limited to, sound, artifical intelligence, and graphics.

2) Level design, etc in games has evolved a LOT since the days of Doom. Compare even the original levels of Doom (created by the "gods" of Doom, ie ID) to levels that us fans are creating today. I think you'll agree that the best fan levels are far better than the best original levels.

3) Gameplay has also evolved, thanks in no small part to Half-life. A single player FPS game without at least some degree of scripting probably wouldn't sell much these days. I think the general public want more than "kill monster, collect key, kill more monsters, open door, kill yet more monsters" type of gameplay.

4) FPS games seem to be merging more and more with RPGs. Take a look at recent games such as System Shock 2 and Deus Ex. Some people label them RPGs, and some call them FPS. Whatever, they both have strong RPG and FPS elements. Even Voyager: Elite Force and Daikatana (yes, I know it sucks :) ) had a few RPG type features, such as NPCs (non-player characters).

The main thing the Doom community needs to remember, is that ID are NOT making this game with us in mind. They are trying to make a game that will sell well, and get them even more money than they already have. They are also presumably making a game that they will want to, and enjoy, play themselves.

I know that only three of the ID-ers who worked on the original games are present, but several of the "new" guys are big fans of the original games, and seeing as Doom fans are generally more devoted to the game than the original developers, that can only be a good thing.

[NiGHTMARE]

Having talked about the basics, here's a round up of stuff (some of which I've mentioned previously) that I'd like to see in the new game:

1) Some of the familiar Doom environments should be there. Hell is an obvious definate, and I'm sure most people will want to see an E1 style set of levels too. A Doom 2 city type episode powered by the new engine would be great too (perhaps on a colony on, say, Io, Mars or Europa, rather than Earth). Of course, there should be new environments too, I mentioned these in a previous post, but I'll say it again, I want a space station, damnit! :)

2) The "shock" factor of the original games must be present. Remember the first time you met the Barons in E1M8? I remember thinking "damn, what the hell are those" before being hit by a load of green plasma and quickly dying. Of course, Doom's method of lowering/raising walls, columns and floors or simply teleporting in wouldn't work in the new game. Instead, you should see walls exploding or crumbling outwards, creatures clawing and tunnelling out of the ground, ceilings collapsing, or perhaps machinery slowly opening to reveal a cybernetic creature like the Cyber Demon.

3) More futuristic elements need to be there. The actually date for Doom is not actually mentioned in the "official" storyline (it probably is in the novels though, but read point 5) for that), but I'd say it's at least the 23rd century. I'm not saying go for a Star Trek style futuristic shine to everything, more a Star Wars rebel, run down type look.

4) There should be recognisible weaponry, but obviously upgraded. I'd also like to see some cool experimental weaponry (that occassionaly goes wrong by overheating or whatever), like there was in the original System Shock and in Half-life. I know some people are against this, but I think a couple of hellish weapons in the hell episode would be a really nice touch.

5) No damned space aliens. The Doom novels do not count as part of the official Doom universe (I remember reading somewhere that Carmack and Romero hate them), and as I've said before are most definately NOT recommended reading material. Yes, the text at the end of MAP11 mentions "carnivorous aliens", but you can call anything not from this planet alien if you wanted to. If you're really racist you could call anything not from your country alien.

6) The environment should be fully interactive. If you see a functioning computer console, you should be able to use it (even if just displays a message). If you see an already damaged door, you should be able to kick it open. If you see a cracked wall, it should be possible to blow it up. Scenery such as lights and plants should be fully destructable (see next point).

7) The AI should be suited for individual creatures. The smartest will jump, dodge and duck to avoid getting hit, the stupidist (Doom Demons/Spectres perhaps) should just run straight at you. Also, the light level should affect creatures as in the Thief games (so blowing up lights or deactivating a power generator might be a really good idea), although some creatures might have glowing eyes (the Imp would be good for this), and others might have some kind of torch (an huge arm mounted light on the Cybie maybe).

8) It would be great if sound had an affect too, so if you were in a room with a lot of heavy machinery, or near a huge waterfall, enemies wouldn't be able to hear you (and you wouldn't be able to hear them either).

9) I'd really like to see fully deformable enemies that have individual body parts that can be shot or chopped off. It would also make sense that shooting things in the back when they haven't noticed you would do more damage than shooting them in the front when they're fully aware of your presence. A T1000 type enemy that slowly pulls itself back together would be really sweet :)

10) Puzzles should be included, but not as "flip the switch to open the door".

Imagine this: you come across a locked door. Next to it is a keypad. Unfortunately you don't know the code, so you continue on another way.

Eventually you come across a room with a couple of computer consoles, but they're not working as there's no power in the area. So again you continue on.

Finally, you reach a power control room. You locate the power control console, and re-route power to the previously power-less area.

You return to the area with the consoles, and access one of them, expecting to be given the combination to the door. Instead, you find that the code has been screwed up somehow. You try accessing another console, and see that it can open the maintenance entrance to a nearby airvent.

You reach and enter the vent, and after time, you find another exit. You jump through, and drop down to find yourself on the other side of the door.

11) Finally, and this is a personal wish, but one of the bosses (maybe the final one) should be a "traditional" demon. Huge, muscular and red body, dark leather wings (it can fly, but only for a short period and then a few feet off the ground), long and sharp claws, and a seriously evil looking face.

[Guest JudgeDooM]

I agree with you on every point, good ideas.
As for the final boss, I'd like it to be the Cyberdemon, but a very huge one. There should also be "baby" cyberdemons (like the arachnotrons are "baby" spider masterminds).

[Zaldron]

NiGHTMARE said:

Good post, that covers every I want to be in the game, and basicaly, is what every FPS player should expect in the games to come.

[Guest mancuvus]

JudgeDooM said:

I agree with you on every point, good ideas.
As for the final boss, I'd like it to be the Cyberdemon, but a very huge one. There should also be "baby" cyberdemons (like the arachnotrons are "baby" spider masterminds).

sa every body have said this post rules it has everything, it must be like the traditional doom (oviously with the new features), anothere boss i would like (as i said in another post) is something like a cyberdemon but biger and without cybernetic parts only using magic powers or something

[Guest DeAD_Stuff]

well i agree with u in this first part...i'll check the second later

[Guest DeAD_Stuff]

NiGHTMARE said:

"10) Puzzles should be included, but not as "flip the switch to open the door".

Imagine this: you come across a locked door. Next to it is a keypad. Unfortunately you don't know the code, so you continue on another way.

Eventually you come across a room with a couple of computer consoles, but they're not working as there's no power in the area. So again you continue on.

Finally, you reach a power control room. You locate the power control console, and re-route power to the previously power-less area.

You return to the area with the consoles, and access one of them, expecting to be given the combination to the door. Instead, you find that the code has been screwed up somehow. You try accessing another console, and see that it can open the maintenance entrance to a nearby airvent.

You reach and enter the vent, and after time, you find another exit. You jump through, and drop down to find yourself on the other side of the door."



mmmmh....what about using your rocket launcher to blow up the door?

i agree with you in general,except point ten and 7, where you say u want intelligent enemies...i do not agree with you for that...i think that the monster should be REALLY stupid, they should just wave u, YOU (the player) should use the intelligence to survive!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and anyway my hope for the new doom (or for the perfect game) is a sort of a deus ex\system shock 2 with a lot of action!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NiGHTMARE]

No, I said that some enemies should be stupid (like the Demon), and some should be intelligent.

A enemy I think should have good AI would be the Arch-Vile. In Doom 2, the player has run round corners unless he wants to get fried. Imagine if in the new game, the Arch-Vile did the same thing, peering round corners, and blasting you with his fire if he spots you :)

[Psyonisis]

NiGHTMARE said:

That T1000 idea is amazing! That would be so cool! You'd have to practically vaporize it then run to avoid it. The only way to kill it would be like in the Terminator movie: heat it to such a high tempurature that it can't reform anymore.

[Guest DeAD_Stuff]

NiGHTMARE said:

No, I said that some enemies should be stupid (like the Demon), and some should be intelligent.

A enemy I think should have good AI would be the Arch-Vile. In Doom 2, the player has run round corners unless he wants to get fried. Imagine if in the new game, the Arch-Vile did the same thing, peering round corners, and blasting you with his fire if he spots you :)

well right
he should be REALLY vile.