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Cartoonish Realism, A Question For All Of You

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One of the things that always attracted me back to Doom was the fact that everything was done by pixel art. The way everything was drawn.

When I play SoF and blast someone in the torso with a shotgun, their intestines fall out as they collapse. Personally I find that almost... TOO realistic.

Naturally, if I put a high calibre bullet into something's head not only is going to make a hole, but it's also going to make an exit wound three times as large and if it's near the side of the head that half just might fly off. I've done it to deer a few times. I just don't see the fun in complete, utter, savagely realistic brutality in video games. Sorry.

I mean, Hell, the first time I blew a deer wide open with a double barrelled ten gauge (put me RIGHT on my ass and came DAMN close to breaking my ribs) I vomited. Seeing it's intestines strewn across the humus and it's ribs swung open, it's large red and violet organs mismatched and disorganized. Seeing the humongous blood pool, the shredded flesh on the sides as it lay on the ground, twitching.

I was twelve, but it still made me puke. Oh well, perhaps I was just too used to Street Fighter 2. :)

Personally, I find sensationalized, overblown, and exaggerated for clarification cartoonish violence more fitting to the Doom style.

After all, you had a gun that could literally explode fifty people with one shot.

But they weren't REALLY exploding, were they? You couldn't make out internal organs, there were no bloodstains, the screams all sounded the same, and you never thought anything of it.

Think of it this way. You see a low level soldier coming at you, rifle taut and ready to fire. You raise your shotgun and squeeze the trigger, firing the 12 gauge magnum slug.

What would you rather want to see in Doom 3?

Would you want to see the two and a half inch long projectile slam it's way through the zombie, blowing almost all of it's upper internal workings on the wall behind it and leaving a hole in the body four inches wide? The zombie itself just falls and collapses? That's how a slug works, you know. They travel with such velocity that something as soft as a body isn't going to stop it, it just flies right through the victim.

Or would you rather want to see it hit the zombie's chest plate armor, give off a huge spark, and fling it across the floor a good ten feet right into a wall? Sure, blood my drool from under the armor in the air, and it's head my crack on the steel wall, but nonetheless it's nowhere near as violent as the other.

The violence in the game doesn't have to be insane.

The way this is going, I just somehow feel that you will be able to disembowl your enemies with the chainsaw. Blow them to pieces with some explosives. Tear humongous holes in their bodies with powerful firearms. Hell, even take a berserk pack and literally knock their block off.

Is that really what you want? A simple yes or no reply would be sufficient.

Just remember that most games that have focused on brutal violence have lacked in other areas, such as ingenuity, gameplay, and graphics.

I'd rather have it be just a little bit easier to edit than have bodies splintering under my firepower, if I had the choice.

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All hunters should be killed!

If i ever saw you kill a deer or whatever, i would take a gun and shoot you!

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Yeah, the "hyper-realism" standpoint bothers me too. What's wrong with slightly cartoony graphics ? I hear people say they loved the Demon, but want to see it brown or something in Doom3.
Why ? For me, the primary reason the Demon was so great is that it's incredibly scary AND fashion-doll pink at the same time. Same with the Baron of Hell - pink body, brown legs, green plasma - a great mix of colors that you wouldn't find in nature but looks great in the game.

Remember, it's DOOM, not some hyper-realistic hunting sim.

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Shaviro said:

All hunters should be killed!

If i ever saw you kill a deer or whatever, i would take a gun and shoot you!

All hunters should be killed? Okay, let's just wipe out all of the omniverous human population. Howabout animals, too?

Predator or prey, bucko, predator or prey. I hunt for the thrill of the chase, and for the food. Ever been to a chicken, or a beef factory? It's a helluva lot more painful for the animal that way. I never hunt just for sport anyway. I don't get a kick out of killing. You ever eat venison? I doubt it.

Vegetarian people are unnatural. We have canines and incisors. We were designed to kill living things. It's certianly in our instincts as well.

Hate me if you will, but you cannot argue that men were designed to eat, kill, and fuck. Women were designed to nest and give birth. Nothing else. The one thing that sets us apart from all the other animals is that God gave us a clear, spoken LANGUAGE. We can communicate between us and our young, and each generation is supposed to learn from the previous what works and what doesn't.

That's why anyone who votes for Al Gore should be killed!

Those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
-Um, some important guy.

Here's something else that pisses me off.

Hey, I have guns! Oh, my dear sweet Jesus! He's going to kill his kids! He's going to shoot up innocent people in the street! What about the CHILDREN?!?! What, he hunts? Gimme that gun, I'll kill the bastard! Fuck his kids he has to die!

This is the downside to intelligence, problamatic contradiction.

Why must I die?
Because I do something that man has done since his dawn?
It's worked for 10 thousand years, and for every other damn animal on the planet for millions more!

Lemme ask you a different question:
You ever been attacked by a deer for no reason?

Probably not, you're probably one of those ultraliberals that lives only in the city and screams about how we should all go back to an honest, nature-like life and give back as much as we take.

Of course, humans haven't ever accomplished that yet.

And it sure sounds good in a 'peace march' with firebombs and thrown rocks.

But you've never actually lived in nature?

Have you?

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If a deer attacked me i would probably kill it!
But give me ONE good reason to go out and kill an innocent deer!
Think about it, the deer doesnt have anything to wake up to!
And besides. I DO live in the nature. Fucker!
I would never shoot if not attacked!
The animal doesnt even have a chance for IDs sake!

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I f*cking hate you hunters !!

Hunting sucks. That's not even close to a real Sport...
If Deer had guns, they'd started killing humans for this...
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to just KILL an Animal...

"Over and out..."

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Ooh, I'm a fucker. You fucking hate me.

Why would I go out and kill a deer? Food. Maybe you've had a nice and easy life but I remember going days without food.

I never said hunting was a sport. Hunting for sport insinuates that I just run around and shoot things for the fuck of it, which is completely retarded. I'm part Indian, I don't waste a damn thing.

I HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUST KILL AN ANIMAL? Fine. Maybe I just shoulda sat there and starved to death, would that have made you happy? Maybe I should've just asked the deer to donate it's meat to me so we could eat. Of course, then it would've just gored me and ran away.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT DO, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS SOMETHING THAT MAN HAS BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST DOZEN MILLENIA OR SO.

"YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COPULATE."

Who the hell do you think you are? Whether or not you want to accept it KILLING **IS** HUMAN NATURE. IF IT MOVES, IT'S FOOD. It's a Goddamned primal instinct that apparantly has been completely bred out of everyone around here but me.

Jesus Christ this isn't even the topic! I was making a point about video game violence, not saying, "Hi. I'm a hunter. Flame me."

Oh for shit's sake, anything to start an argument. Anything to just get a rise out of someone.

Guess what. I coulda went bowhunting this weekend. However, I haven't hunted in a good half a decade or so. Why? We've stabalized financially.

I don't enjoy sitting in a tree holding onto a bow, covered in musk and just waiting for my dinner to roll along so I can put an arrow into it's side, chase it, and slit it's throat so it doesn't suffer anymore than it has to. I can just go to Meijer's and get some frozen pizzas.

Nice I have a choice now, you argumentative pricks. But wait, that deer had as much right to live as I did! Well, God thought of that too. Cheetahs don't drink Mountain Dew, they chase other animals and rip their throats out and wait for them to bleed to death. The cheetahs dinner had as much right to live as the cheetah, sure. So did the cheetah, it didn't want to starve. If you don't like this system, blame God, not me.

You fucking hate me?
Fine, join the club.
Guess what?
I fucking hate people that are so blindly sure of their own ways that they completely hate everything else without reason or explination.

Maybe people should have never hunted at all.
Then we would all be dead a few thousand years before we were born and maybe then you people would be happy.

Do you hate fishing too?
What about race car driving, sometimes they hit rabbits on the track.
Can't fly in a plane, either. It might disturb a bird.
Oh fuck, can't drive anywhere. Those fossil fuels USED to be animals.
Can't use bugspray. Mosquitoes deserve to live too, even though they carry yellow fever.
Don't use that mousetrap! If we have no pests how will our children get diseased?

Put down that gun! That animal deserves to live! Let's just eat corn and tofu, then spend the rest of our lives hiding our denied primal instincts and watching Dharma & Greg.

Your such a free spirit, Dharma.

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Shaviro said:

If a deer attacked me i would probably kill it!
But give me ONE good reason to go out and kill an innocent deer!
Think about it, the deer doesnt have anything to wake up to!
And besides. I DO live in the nature. Fucker!
I would never shoot if not attacked!
The animal doesnt even have a chance for IDs sake!

If a deer attacked you you'd probably kill it? How? A deer is a five hundred pound animal with razor sharp antlers that can run three times as fast as you. I don't walk around with a gun all the time, but when I was attacked I got the hell away and got back in my damn house. The bastard chased me, hit my door, and drop kicked my grill right offa the porch. It's a much funnier story when I tell it.

One good reason?
Food. My dad's plant was shut down and while he was job hunting I was food hunting. We were denied welfare because we were white (and I don't give a DAMN what any liberal says I know this to be true).

The deer doesn't have anything to wake up to? It never did. It just runs along, eats, screws, and sleeps. Anything hungry that's bigger than it will probably try to kill it too.

You do live in the nature? Off question, but what kinda internet you get? Out here in the woods my 56K will never connect higher than 26.4, and I can't get ISDN, DSL, Cable or even a satellite internet connection. I have to go to a friend's house in the city to get a good deathmatch on. :/

I'm a fucker? Why, thank you! Nice to know you care.

You would never shoot if not attacked? What if you were starving? What if, hypothetically speaking, your kids were starving? What if your long running job suddenly disappeared? What if no one would help you?

ID isn't God. I find that statement offensive and disturbing at the same time.

Anything else you want to argue about? The war in Serbia or Chinese human rights violations maybe?

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deadnail said:

Dude, you sound seriously messed up in the head. No one ever said that eating meat was wrong, but hunting is mercilessly slaughtering an innocent animal for no reason other than the adrenaline rush you get when you see its blood splattered on the forest floor by your gun. And what is your problem with Al Gore? Sure he has his faults, but it's either him or George W. Bush, and Bush is a complete moron who doesn't know a thing about running the country. Personally, I'd rather have Gore. I also agree with not having super-realistic violence in DOOM 3. Surprising comment, coming from a hunter, though.

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deadnail said:

I respect people who hunt to survive!
I just thought you did it for fun man!

Lets forget all hard feelings then shall we?

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deadnail said:

If its For survival im ok with it!

BTW God does not exist!
ID does for IDs sake!

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geekmarine said:

Dude, you sound seriously messed up in the head. No one ever said that eating meat was wrong, but hunting is mercilessly slaughtering an innocent animal for no reason other than the adrenaline rush you get when you see its blood splattered on the forest floor by your gun. And what is your problem with Al Gore? Sure he has his faults, but it's either him or George W. Bush, and Bush is a complete moron who doesn't know a thing about running the country. Personally, I'd rather have Gore. I also agree with not having super-realistic violence in DOOM 3. Surprising comment, coming from a hunter, though.

I think Al Gore is the most suited for teh President post!

I hear Bush talk about something like this:
"America should be able to FIGHT and WIN wars!"
OH, so now The US should try to conquer the world?
What a sucker!

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geekmarine said:

Dude, you sound seriously messed up in the head. No one ever said that eating meat was wrong, but hunting is mercilessly slaughtering an innocent animal for no reason other than the adrenaline rush you get when you see its blood splattered on the forest floor by your gun. And what is your problem with Al Gore? Sure he has his faults, but it's either him or George W. Bush, and Bush is a complete moron who doesn't know a thing about running the country. Personally, I'd rather have Gore. I also agree with not having super-realistic violence in DOOM 3. Surprising comment, coming from a hunter, though.

I'm seriously messed up in the head?

Hunting, far be it to detract from anything you've heard on TV, is killing animals for food. It's not running around the woods shooting things for the fun of it, dancing in their blood and all that. Jesus. Didn't I just say that when I killed my first deer I vomited? It sure did taste good after the grill got through with it, though. :)

Al Gore is a brainless ultra-environmentalist that is just saying what people want to hear. I'm really surprised that he didn't yell, "Can a brutha get sum luv?!" during his campaign in Harlem, trying to woo the 'ghetto vote'. At least Bush is sincere, Gore is completely rehearsed and just regurgitates what will get him votes, over and over like the robot that escaped from Westworld that he is.

Hey, you agree with my POINT. Nice. That's two people so far, out of what, eight posts?

Surprising from a hunter?

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE THINK HUNTERS ARE? DO YOU THINK I COVER MY NAKED ASS IN CAMOFLAUGE PAINT AND DEER PISS, THEN SIT UNDER A BUSH WITH A MACHETE? DO YOU THINK I THEN JUST WAIT FOR A DEER TO WALK ALONG, THEN I LUNGE OUT, SLICE OPEN IT'S MIDSECTION AND DIVE IN, SWIMMING IN THE ENTRAILS AND RIPPING IT APART WITH MY BARE HANDS, GIGGLING LIKE A SCHOOLGIRL UNTIL I RIP OUT IT'S STILL BEATING HEART AND EAT IT?

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

The last time I hunted I sat in a tree with a 30-06 rifle. I baited the ground and waited for a deer to show up. When it did, I shot it through the chest and got off a heart shot; it died instantly and suffered for less than a minute. Then I dragged it to my uncle's truck, got it home, gutted it, my uncle did the rest and my mom cooked it.

There is no such thing as hunting for sport. I realize there are people that just like to shoot things for the fuck of it, and in the last, I don't know, FOUR HUNDRED FUCKING POSTS I'VE HAD TO MAKE HAS IT SUNK IN YET THAT I DON'T ENJOY RANDOMLY TAKING LIFE? I'll be Goddamned if I'll just sit around when there's food to be had though.

Hey, let's change the topic. I smoke Marlboro reds. *GASP!*

"Don't you know that baby Jesus cries when you smoke?!?!??!! FUCK YOU!!"

Oh yeah, lemme have it. Be my dealer.

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Shaviro said:

I respect people who hunt to survive!
I just thought you did it for fun man!

Lets forget all hard feelings then shall we?

Sure man, no problems. Fucker. We're even. =Þ

BTW, howabout you ANSWER MY QUESTION? Do you want ultra-realistic violence in Doom 3? That's how this whole mess got started.

Remember from Jeremy's post a while back? I'm Indian. I don't waste a thing. I've been hurt enough in my life, I don't feel the need to randomly hurt anything else without damn good reason. Starving is a good reason. :)

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YOU JUST CALLED ME A FUCKER!

Oh well!

I would like killings to be like on the original dooms! Not ultrarealistic, but ultraviolence!

Maonth(Thats me) I think!

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Shaviro said:

If its For survival im ok with it!

BTW God does not exist!
ID does for IDs sake!

Oh, don't worry. I'm not about to get all religious on your ass.

Sure, God exists. You can't see him and you have no physical proof on you right now that he does, but the same could be said for the bacteria on your skin. :)

Lotsa people don't believe in God. The last thing I'll ever try to do is change the way people think, but I will state my opinion.

If you don't think God exists, I hope for your sake you're right. :)

There. That's that.

Fucker.

Had to get another one in. :)

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YOU JUST CALLED ME A FUCKER AGAIN!

Oh well!

All that crap in the bible about hell and Heaven. Its pure crap man! And the garden of eden?

Please spare it!

It belongs to the past!

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Guest mancuvus
Disorder said:

I f*cking hate you hunters !!

Hunting sucks. That's not even close to a real Sport...
If Deer had guns, they'd started killing humans for this...
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to just KILL an Animal...

"Over and out..."

ok lets start killing humans with guns

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Guest mancuvus
Lord FlatHead said:

Yeah, the "hyper-realism" standpoint bothers me too. What's wrong with slightly cartoony graphics ? I hear people say they loved the Demon, but want to see it brown or something in Doom3.
Why ? For me, the primary reason the Demon was so great is that it's incredibly scary AND fashion-doll pink at the same time. Same with the Baron of Hell - pink body, brown legs, green plasma - a great mix of colors that you wouldn't find in nature but looks great in the game.

Remember, it's DOOM, not some hyper-realistic hunting sim.

hay wait a minute, it depends, sometimes more realistic stuff means more sadistic "stuff", in the real life oviously you are not going to fight against an imp but if you did, imagine his body after a doblebarrel shotgun shoot

GUTS ALL OVER THE F****N PLACE!!!!!

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mancuvus said:

ok lets start killing humans with guns

if i understand what you said. yeah, why in the hell are we worrying about killing deer when people are killing people constantly. hell, some people make it sound that its wrong to kill animals, and that its ok to murder someone, WTF!.
..............shit, im suprised that people aren't bitching that plants have rights

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WHAT THE FUCK IS IT ALL ABOUT??
ARE U TOTALY INSANE??
THIS IS THE DOOM FORUM NOT THE HUNTING FORUM!
BTW DOOM 3 SHOULD BE VERY GORY!

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Guest JudgeDooM
deadnail said:

Oh, don't worry. I'm not about to get all religious on your ass.

Sure, God exists. You can't see him and you have no physical proof on you right now that he does, but the same could be said for the bacteria on your skin. :)

Lotsa people don't believe in God. The last thing I'll ever try to do is change the way people think, but I will state my opinion.

If you don't think God exists, I hope for your sake you're right. :)

There. That's that.

Fucker.

Had to get another one in. :)

Even in this "hostility" situation, I'll try to reply to your original post (cartoonish realism).
I'd like some realistic gore, maybe you find SoF gore overexagerated, but I find it realistic, especially on the intestine point. I think that in real life, when u fire with a 12-gauge shotgun at close range on a guy, he won't just lose some blood, but maybe one of his members (depends wich one, the arm for example) would be dispatched...

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Guest JudgeDooM

What I fear the most is the "Doom feeling point". I think it's what all of us DooM fans fear...If I don't find the same feeling in DooM 3 that I had in DooM, I'll be pissed.

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Dima said:

WHAT THE FUCK IS IT ALL ABOUT??
ARE U TOTALY INSANE??
THIS IS THE DOOM FORUM NOT THE HUNTING FORUM!
BTW DOOM 3 SHOULD BE VERY GORY!

What the fuck is it all about? Video game violence, and that I don't want to play games with violence more severe than SoF. Hunting was an analogy, and some people around here just have some completely insane concepts about hunting.

No, I'm quite sane, although I do have a chemical imbalance.

Of course it's the Doom 3 forum, bucko. Didn't you find my question about Doom 3 or did your eyes get tired of reading?

"Very Gory"?
How gory?

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My eyes got tired of reading ur fucking message which connects to Doom 3 only with 5 words!
The rest is a fucking shit about Hunting what's that has to do with it?
I want to play games gory just like SOF IT'S FUN!
I don't want to play games where no matter where u hit he will always DIE!
DOOM 3 SHOULD BE GORY VERY GORY!
BTW U have completely isane concepts about hunting also so shut up and make messages that connect to Doom 3 and not to HUNTING!

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I'll say this quickly with Dima in mind.

My message completely relates to Doom 3. The whole message was a question. Would you prefer ultra-realistic violence or exaggerated cartoon violence. You prefer ultra-realistic.

The hunting bit was to relate SoF and Doom 3 with reality. What does it have to do with it? I've blown things open with guns and I know just how realistic SoF is, and I think it shouldn't get any worse than that. It's a fucking video game, not a murder simulator.

Do you want charred, flowering flesh around explosion wounds?

Do you want wounded enemies trailing blood on the floor?

Do you want to be able to grab a dead imp and dissect it with your boot knife in any way you desire?

Do you want four heads, six spinal columns, eighteen feet of entrails and seventy nine gallons of blood flying out of everywhere from an imp every single time you shoot it once with a pistol?

If so, then go into detail, don't just say:
DOOM 3 SHOULD BE GORY VERY GORY!

Elaborate.

Don't blame me on all the hunting posts. There were some people here who for some utterly retarded reason thing that hunting is just running through the trees shooting everything that moves for no reason.

I have insane (yes, there's an 'n' in there) concepts about hunting? Why? Because I only do it to survive, I don't let the animal suffer, and I don't waste any of the meat?

What's insane about that?

What's insane is all of you dipshits in here SCREAMING at me in really INTIMIDATING capital letters about what YOU think hunting is, and I'd like to know who the fuck told you about hunting because I haven't heard SHIT from ANYONE in here about what hunting really IS.

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