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In memory of the long long ago.

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Well why not, eh? Let's restate what we've already stated just for the new people. It would do well if the new guys didn't reply to this thread, instead all the veterans of this forum come back and reiterate what they've already posted.

A few hundred years in the future there would be no infantry of any kind, let alone close quarters combat. Right now there is very little melee level combat above bayonets (negating all concepts of a 'Gauntlet' or 'Combat Chainsaw' or 'Sword').

The Beretta pistol and pump action shotgun were obsolete when Doom came out, let alone when Doom took place. Since any weapons of today will be antiques in the timeline of Doom 3, we can only base it's arsenal on the trends of weapons today. Smaller, cheaper to manufacture, more reliable, more customizable, and more durable.

It's as simple as looking at the Beretta to the Glock, or the M16A1 to the M4A1. There's that analogy in thousands of pages of detail right there.

Therefore, for the pistol of Doom 3 we should look at combat pistols of today. The Beretta M93R series has a switch to allow for single or triple shot bursts like many assault rifles. The Glock 18 has a switch that allows for full automatic firing. I would guess that the pistol for military issue this far into the future would contain zero to no metal and be all polymers. It would have roughly the dimensions of a Desert Eagle, yet smaller and easier to handle (also considering the lack of steel it would weigh about 2 pounds, 1/3 as much as a Desert Eagle). It would probably fire 10mm rounds, most likely caseless but I doubt that anyone wants to see caseless action... we all want the brass flying so this tradition should be maintained for the sake of gameplay. The secondary fire button should simply choose firing modes, Semi-Auto, Burst, and Full-Auto. I would guess it holding 18 rounds per magazine and be extremely accurate. It would also probably have a built in laser sighting mechanism for pinpoint strategic shooting (actual combat implies 'natural point of sight' firing and no aiming) such as disarming bombs.

That's the pistol, even coming with a full auto mode to negate the need for 'uzis' or any other gangsta weaponry. I would also like to take the time to restate that this will be a military operation, not a Mafia operation, and therefore should NOT include any gold-plated guns. I don't know why people like this concept but it's just plain and simple disgusting fashion.

Besides, the Uzi is gay next to the P-950! ;P

Yes I did state that the pump action shotgun was obsolete by the time of Doom. Why? The Benelli M3 Super 90 was created in 1984, and every shotgun after that has been a mute point. The M3 can be fire pump action OR semi-auto, depending on your situation. Pump action will work underwater, while Semi-Auto would be a better choice for field combat. Makes a good secondary fire button use, switching modes. I would picture this shotgun design based on the SPAS-12 (Half-Life), but would contain more resin and less metal for weight concerns. I also see the handle being more of a bullpup design. The M3 holds 7 rounds in it's tubular magazine. Considering this is the 'shotgun of tomorrow', I could accept up to 10 rounds with a 42" barrel.

Now then, the 'Uncle Jed' double barrelled shotgun idea just has to go, especially if there is little actual game action on Earth. The double barrelled combat shotgun style would look much like the normal shotgun, except for the fact that it would be heavier for the compensation device and the drum for the shells. Other than that we've talked about this in great detail so I'll leave this as that.

Machine guns... everyone wants a GE Minigun so I'll just agree. Just remember that it's attached to the ammo backpack by a crane so you're not supporting the weight... it does NOT come with a handle & trigger on the bottom iD, get it right!

Grenade Launcher / Rocket Launcher... well, they've all been fake as hell up to this point so why stop now. The best Grenade Launcher was Quake 2. Those grenades that could be used either by hand or by launcher was a great idea then and it is hardly worn out or tired. As for the rocket launcher... why aren't the explosions twenty feet big? Considering the size of those rockets they must be damn near empty! For a realistic rocket launcher with the same quake-sized blast I would refer you to the M.Launcher weapon from Resident Evil 3. Clip fed.

As for the rest of the weapons, I believe that SirGalahad has some great ideas for cell powered toys. Lay them down.

Main Gameplay Factors & Level Flow:
Use button, simply must return.

Automap, simply must return. However since it has no use in multiplay the same button can be used for map as score. BTW, we already have automaps that can do more than the map in Doom did. They're called GPS, or Global Positioning Systems. They display time, longitude, lattitude, altitude, humidity, temperature, and considering it's a video game I could also easily picture a motion tracker system ala Aliens. Would do quite nicely as a HUD option that takes up 15% of the screen real estate, easily pulled out of your view with the TAB button.

The alternate fire button should have been in every FPS game since System Shock. Most people know it from Blood, Half-Life, and the Unreal series. It just simply adds too much to strategy and functionality to not be included.

Should the game have a simple mode and an advanced mode? The simple mode would be for most game players, the advanced mode would allow console use and... well... hmm. I guess there wouldn't be much use to this after all. But it is worth mentioning that the console should be like it was in FAKK 2, a floating window. Of course I think UT had that first...

For level flow I look to the game Darius. Like Doom it was at heart a simple-minded blast fest with secrets to find and a good arsenal, and a single person saved the world from destruction. However, Darius had a great idea for replay value... every level had two exits. You finish level A, depending on the path you took you can go to either level B or C. From B you can advance to E or F, from C you can go to F or G. See? This can just expand outwards like a triangle and you will NEVER take the same path through the game! :)

I would like to see all of the old foes return, but alas, this is doubtful. Whichever enemies return I hope they return with much better AI and new attacks. The old kamikaze survival insticts no longer apply to games anymore. I remember talking about several classes of imps, larger dominants of species that perform as mini-bosses, and random variances in enemies so it doesn't look like you're killing the very same thing over and over again. This was never my specialty, however, I'm known more around here as the resident gun freak.

C'mon, I can't do this whole thing by myself can I?

BTW, one thing to keep in mind is that these are all ideas for a video game. Keep all of your homosexual and obscene thoughts to yourselves because not only do they not belong here, they don't fit here.

Simple answer?
Either be here to talk about Doom 3 or FUCK OFF. A little bit of loose talk is acceptable but for God's sake try to stick to the subject a little!

You guys still here to add to this?

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Guest Spectre

I agree whole-heartedly...however (no offense), I don't think you have the right to tell everyone to "stick to the subject," since half of your posts aren't related to D3.

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Umm, just a couple of minor points. Who says Doom3 has to occur in the future? Who says it has to occur in space or on another planet. Who says it can't take place here, now, on earth. You are forgetting the occult/mystic element of Doom (which is forever being overlooked). This means there is virtually no setting which could not be explained or out of place. This way weapons could be modeled after present day technology (with artistic license of course).

Your idea for multiple exits/game paths is a good one. To be done right however would require a large time expenditure on the part of the design team. Essentially requiring the creation of two or more games in one. Great if it can be pulled off though. Much better than some lame hub set up.

You also have to keep in mind, Doom3 is likely to be an action game. Not a simulation. It should have it's own brand of "realism" which need not mirror real life in any great detail.

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I'd personally prefer large hubs that have exits to different hubs than single levels. While offering plenty of choice, it would still _seem_ (and I emphasise that word, because obviously it wouldn't be) linear to the player.

I'll explain what I mean by using the following example:

The first episode takes place on Phobos. Along the way, you come across a working shuttle, which you can take to the Mars base, which has also been invaded. However, once you reach Mars, your shuttle is shot down, so there is no way to return to Phobos.

Alternatively, you can continue onwards, and you will eventually find a dimensional gateway that leads to Deimos, which has of cost been heavily subverted seing being pulled in Hell. After stepping out of the portal onto Deimos, it closes behind you and there is no way back.

I do think that the final hub, no matter what route you take, should be the same, i.e. Hell. Or maybe it could be in the same place, but you have a couple of different levels, or items and enemies are in different places.

Perhaps if you go to the Deimos route, you can cause the moon to crash into hell's surface, cutting off re-inforcements that appear in the Mars route.

There would also be other routes too of course, not just one choice as I've given as an example here.

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Spectre said:

I agree whole-heartedly...however (no offense), I don't think you have the right to tell everyone to "stick to the subject," since half of your posts aren't related to D3.

Ah, but half of them are! It's not like I throw down 80% of my posts on homosexual accusations or anything like some of the other people in here...

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(Title is an RPG referance, don't worry).

The Pistol of the Future - Well, the picture DN paints is a pretty good one, but the US Military seems to think rather differently. Check out the description on the OPW, the Objective Personal Weapon, it sounds BIZARRE:

"Objective Personal Weapon (OPW) (04-09). The OPW is the side arm of the future. It will provide increased accuracy and incapacitation for close-in self-defense in last ditch combat situations, as well as some extended offensive capability in special operations, military police operations, and dignitary protection. The envisioned OPW will employ technically advanced, leap-ahead concepts, and technologies that span the entire electromagnetic spectrum, yielding incapacitating mechanisms of a non-conventional nature. It will be capable of immediate incapacitation (target ceases to remain a threat) out to 50 meters against personnel with body armor. It will have substantially increased accuracy, hit probability, and target effects. This lightweight system will not exceed 3 pounds and will be user friendly with hands-free carry. It will provide multiple engagement capability and be operational day or night, in all weather conditions, on land/sea/surf/air. Supports: Objective Family of Small Arms."

From: http://mrmc-www.army.mil/mrmc_library/astmp/original/c3/P3I4.htm

I sure hope it's legal for me to access that site! ;)

The whole "non-conventional" and "full electromagnetic spectrum" make it sound like some sort of Phaser or something... The "in all weather conditions" rules out most lasers and "lightning guns".

Not very Doom-ish, but that's where the Military thinks it's going.

Anyway, I question the need for "RL" weapons. Realistic and predictable (in behaviour) weapons, yes, but necessarily totally like RL ones? I don't think so on.

On the GE Minigun - The GE 134 Minigun, which shoots 7.62MM NATO @ 6000RPM, does not, you are correct, have any holding handles or the like. HOWEVER, you COULD NOT hold it unless your were "super-strong" or had an exo-skeleton on, the recoil is just too large, and you'd be knocked over.

However #2, there WAS a 5.56MM Minigun (forget it's designation), and a MAN-PORTABLE version WAS developed, called the XM-214, or the like (I've checked up on this, and it's apparently for real), but was found to be not worth the while. It DID have handles, and has generally very similar to "The One Blaine Had in Predator", which also fired 5.56MM (though was externally powered, though a cable running up his leg, not battery-powered or engine-powered as it would have to be IRL). Anyway, humans could fire this, though the recoil force was extreme (Blaine's one was at 45kg steady recoil firing blanks, 60kg would seem likely for real rounds). I would suggest toning the ROF down to 3000 RPM, which would preserve ammo, battery life, and mean the recoil was a still extreme, but more bearable 30Kg.

Dual-Shotguns - A double-barreled shotgun with side-by-side barrels firing one after another might not be such a bad idea, as the recoil would tend to throw the aim from one side to another, making for a good "sweeping" motion. A box magazine would of course be superior to say, dual underbarrel magazines.

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Remember the old days, deadnail?
Im not the oldest one here, when i came, there was at least 200 posts before me. I checked the older ones, and saw names of people who aren´t here anymore, and they´re wasn´t by when i came.
Maonth, deadnail, Tetzlaff and Epiphany are the older ones i remember.

I guess we should regather all the important stuff we posted, and make a great mega-post posted every new thread so newbies know what was already discussed. The problem is, there are no such records. The server holds up to 8 previous threads, check them, and you´ll notice that they´re fairly new. Even my first post of Dima´s first dissapeared. And i just don´t want to rewrite all the stuff again. Maybe the older threads are available, we should ask Linguica...

This is funny, i forgot to post here for JUST A SINGLE DAY, and when i came by, the newest post i saw was the latest on the list. What the hell happened?? why this newbie explosion??
There were fairly no news about DooM3, so how can you explain this madness?

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Guest Spectre
deadnail said:

Ah, but half of them are! It's not like I throw down 80% of my posts on homosexual accusations or anything like some of the other people in here...

Yes, this is very true.

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I haven´t looked at the forum for a time because the whole newbie gay talk and spamming was really annoying. But nice to see that you elder guys still are alive and don´t give up! :)

From the old stuff (the essential stuff) we discussed here, I made some copys of all the ideas I liked in a txt-file. That was in my very early Doom3-forum days. Maybe I post it later, so we can see what changed and how our whole ideas developped.

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