doom3 fighting monsters

[the-widow-maker]

Its just a minor thought and fer christ sakes dont flame me if you disagree!,but I reckon that the monsters in doom 3 should attack each other if provoked.And even if they don't accidently hit each other when you strafe round them,a small animosity factor should make them erupt into fights randomly .Certain enemies should be more prone to aggresive action with one another,as well as different types of hatred between them-ie imps are tolerant of daemons but can't STAND barons-of-hell (or something).Also (and if id dont do this I shall be extremely pissed off) there must be different death animations-there were only two in doom(standard and rocket death)and it got bloody tedious after watching it a couple of times-in turok 2 there were many different animations for each enemy,which was great (pity about the rest of the game....) ,but it was certainly a welcome innovation.All the original weapons should be kept,with the chaingun made a damn sight more deadly,and both bfg and plasma guns upgraded with faster moving bolts.(but dont make the bfg rapid fire like in quake3 cos' that was both shit and silly).Please tell me what you think and Elyuca,that last post I did was purely for the forums enjoyment,and you were stupid to have been insulted by it-I dont know who any of you are and because of this,I hope all insults/bad language is just for fun/emphasis/expression and not because you want to seriously maim the guy you are talking to:)

Oh and one more thing, what do you think of that post earlier about those guys making that quake/doom thing? I myself am quite interested....

[deadnail]

It's been said before (yo ho hooo hoooooooo) but fuck it, it's a good idea and hasn't been said in a while.

What I'd like to see is more animalistic behavior, such as demons snarling at each other with dominant ones in groups being clearly defined.

As for multiple death animations, the flinches in Turok 2 can't compare with the balls-to-the-wall violence in Soldier of Fortune. Both are kickass games that were severely underrated in my opinion.




I expect no less from Doom 3. :)

[EllipsusD]

Somewhere along the line I got the idea that Barons hate Cacodemons. I don't know where this came from.. but oh, well. The Cyberdemon had dead barons hanging in the central pillar of his tower... I would imagine that there should be some animosity there. The idea of having the demons wan't to kill something other that you definately adds depth. In fact, it wouldn't really be Doom if you couldn't trick the lesser enemies into attacking each other.
Zombies are holding on to the remaining power that their decaying minds hold. Basically any threat, friend or foe, is fair game for them. Another way of thinking is that they are being controlled by the Mastermind. Thus, if the Mastermind controlling them dies, they are 'released' from the demons' hold and will wander aimlessly, trying to comprehend what has happened to them, running at anything that moves, a look of helplessness in their eyes.
Imps are large in number, but still lack inteligence to a certain extent. Think of them as citizens. If the term "Baron of Hell" denotes any form of feudal system, that it is highly likely that imps would hate the barons and possibly the knights as well. It is doubtfull that thy would act on this unless they were great in number facing such an opponent. They may even leave you alone if you help them kill a baron.
Demons seem to be almost like work horses, containing lesser inteligence, and so they should snip at each other, or anything else for that matter, that get's in their way.
Cacodemons have appeared in groups in the previous 2 Dooms, leading me to believe that they are pack animals. Weak, and large, but possibly territorial. I could forsee it attacking other flying creatures (and the Baron:) ).
I always thought that the lost souls were the skull remains of dead demons. They should probably act as sporatic as the zombies.
Pain Elementals (assuming that the above is true) would prey on demons and answer to no-one. Inteligence is questionable but probably high as they are usually found alone. I doubt it would like cacodemons either.
Barons and knights would probably share the same enemies as the knights are just the servents of the barons. It would be unlikely that these would hate anything weaker, but would be upset at what they couldn't control (minus what they feel subserviant to). They would probably hit smaller creatures to try to break up petty squabbles and keep smaller enemies against you.
Revenants go under my theory for zombies.
Archviles are probably the least attacked of all creatures, simply because it is powerfull and can restore the dead. possibly quick tempered though, if it is attacked. And why not? It probably feels arrogant and would rather get 'the job' done without trouble and restore the dead after the dust clears.
Cyberdemons are definate enemies of the barons. The cybernetic grafts were a gift to an intelligent creature with the body of a large work horse. What the barons once controlled is now more powerfull than them. Think of the fighting as of that of two jealous children.
The spider mastermind has a lot of control over the lesser enemies. Level 20 of Doom 2 could mean that the two powerhouses are not on good terms either. The arachnatrons are simply children and are more curious, but hold the same grudges.
Mancubus. What would they hate? They seem trigger happy, but that may only mean that they get into fights like a large drunken guy.
Well, that was a long post... but these are just my ideas on what possible enemy hatreds could occur and still make sence with Doom and Doom2. Granted, very foe of these rivalries would mean a thing if you are the greater threat, but in the chaos of a large battle, it would be nice to see some of these things become apparent.

[NiGHTMARE]

Of course there are going to be lots of different death animations in the new game, after all, it's using polygons, so why wouldn't there be?

And yeah, moster in-fighting would be good. A good pair to hate each other would be the Revenant and the Mancubus, I think you can figure out why :)

I don't think in-fighting has ever been particularly well used in the FPS genre, but it was there in Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2 and it worked very well (though it got bloody annoying at times).

[the-widow-maker]

wow!You certainly seem to know what you are talking about,and I fully agree with that heirarcical explaination of yours.Perhaps Id software should look into this a little....

[Guest Lament]

EllipsusD said:

I probably know where you got the idea of barons hating cacodemons. E2M9 :)
And also. Monsters attacking each other is cool, but are those actually monsters? If they're hell creatures (as they were intended to be) they shouldn't, at least, lack intelligence. (Even if they're vulnerable, which is kinda strange) Archvile and PE (and souls) are definitely hell creatures and not just some animal freaks.

[Guest scar3crow]

deadnail said:

It's been said before (yo ho hooo hoooooooo) but fuck it, it's a good idea and hasn't been said in a while.

What I'd like to see is more animalistic behavior, such as demons snarling at each other with dominant ones in groups being clearly defined.

As for multiple death animations, the flinches in Turok 2 can't compare with the balls-to-the-wall violence in Soldier of Fortune. Both are kickass games that were severely underrated in my opinion.




I expect no less from Doom 3. :)

this sounds akin to blood2 actually
the monsters all have defined hierarchies and the human baddies are their own group (even though theyre for Cabal) and often youd see a battle between a few zealots a prophet and a drudge priest....i think this could be applyed to Doom3 into some VERY interesting situations.

also theres situations that support the cyberdemon rivalry to barons...such as lvl 8 in doom2. i was also thinking not just rivalries and animal tendencies...but inspirations
such as hell knights are more likely to attack if their old brother baron is around...or arachnotrons have better aim if theres a mastermind around....i do think the lost souls would be intelligent but sporatic...but id like to see a family of it...protecting pain elementals and such.
id like to see some flocking ai kind of in doom3....packs of cacos are common...but id like to see one go forward while another strafes left at an angle and the other goes right with the remainder hanging back for support. id like to see also zombies with different portions of their mind left causing more control...such as better aim or quicker reactions....or could possibly somewhat lead the weaker ones... ?

[Guest JudgeDooM]

EllipsusD said:

Good point about the cyberdemon. It would be cool to see a cinematic sometime in the game that shows this story. Plus other cutscenes that explain the story of the other ennemies: how did it appear? its strenght? things like that.

[Guest Deathtoll]

Couldn't agree more.

Another thing to include could be morale, especially since there would be a hireachy. The little guys would start getting whipped, and adstheir numbers diminish some might scurry away.
And, if monsters do take it out on each other, then if it looks like the smaller one will lose, he will skulk away, or maybe cower in the corner.

[Toke]

Maybe you should take it one step farther and have monsters got aroused and start fucking eachother when there bored. And if they arent with another monste they could just jack off in a corner somewhere. And certain enimies should be more pron to masturbasive action (if id dont do this i will be extremely un satisfied)