God save the queen

[the-widow-maker]

In doom3 there should be the option to choose your nationality because there is no way I am playing as so dumb brainless american marine-I want to be an SAS member-it would make sense anyway,if you are going to infiltrate an enemy base you want the best and the SAS are renowned for being just that.

[Zaldron]

You´re pathetic, there´s no need to say more...

Besides, you´re under one of the oldest polithical systems. Together with Feudalism and the Church, the Monarchy was a key feature to archieve what we call "Dark Ages". The medieval period was patethic politically, socially, technollogically and artistically. And you´re damn proud of living under such an old system?
Enter the 21th century, please..

[Lüt]

Why don't you just go join your beloved SAS or whatever the fuck that is and leave us alone here?

[deathbringer]

Cause patriotism is not welcome in the 21st century

[Tetzlaff]

Yes, patriotism is damn oldfashionend.

[deadnail]

Funny, in most Japanese games you play a Japanese character and in most American games you play an American character. Go figure.

[Zaldron]

LOL
You couldn´t said it better...

[the-widow-maker]

Zaldron said:

You´re pathetic, there´s no need to say more...

Besides, you´re under one of the oldest polithical systems. Together with Feudalism and the Church, the Monarchy was a key feature to archieve what we call "Dark Ages". The medieval period was patethic politically, socially, technollogically and artistically. And you´re damn proud of living under such an old system?
Enter the 21th century, please..

Oh and the 'senators' of america-based on a 2000 year old system-aren't old fasioned?please...

[the-widow-maker]

deadnail said:

Funny, in most Japanese games you play a Japanese character and in most American games you play an American character. Go figure.

Yeah but with the speculation of having multiple character choices, it would make sense to do this.

I'm not funny,I'm fucking hilarious-well laugh then you bastards

[Tetzlaff]

Zaldron said:

You´re pathetic, there´s no need to say more...

Besides, you´re under one of the oldest polithical systems. Together with Feudalism and the Church, the Monarchy was a key feature to archieve what we call "Dark Ages". The medieval period was patethic politically, socially, technollogically and artistically. And you´re damn proud of living under such an old system?
Enter the 21th century, please..

We don´t really know about the middle ages, so don´t talk like that. You can´t compare for example medieval art with our days art, there was no nationalism and certain social systems in some periods had a more developped level then today. I study art history and medieval history, so just let me tell you this.

[Zaldron]

the-widow-maker said:

Yeah but with the speculation of having multiple character choices, it would make sense to do this.

I'm not funny,I'm fucking hilarious-well laugh then you bastards

I think the most important question to ask is : why are you a racist?

And don´t come with some kind of crap, disliking people because of their nationality IS racism.

[Zaldron]

Tetzlaff said:

We don´t really know about the middle ages, so don´t talk like that. You can´t compare for example medieval art with our days art, there was no nationalism and certain social systems in some periods had a more developped level then today. I study art history and medieval history, so just let me tell you this.

Im not saying that Medieval Art sucked. In fact, I love the Medieval architecture, the painting, the drawings, and such. It was a bad period for Humanity, like 10 centuries of technollogy haltness, plagues, power-mad oppresors and meaningless wars (Crusades). It was a bad time, everyone knows that, surviving was an odissey.

[Zaldron]

the-widow-maker said:

Oh and the 'senators' of america-based on a 2000 year old system-aren't old fasioned?please...

The senator system comes from the Ancient Romans, one of the most powerful civilizations ever. You´re proud of the system that halted Human progression for like 1000 years.

[Tetzlaff]

Zaldron said:

It was a bad time, everyone knows that, surviving was an odissey.

This is a popular, but very shallow view at the middle ages. We really didn´t know too much about the whole period, believe me. It´s very hard to understand how people thought in this times, in my opinion it is even easier to understand antique romans and greeks.
The crusades also were´nt meaningless, and it wasn´t just slaughtering, it also was a gerat exchange between occidental and oriental cultures. If I only could better speak english I would tell you more.

[Zaldron]

I understand what you´re trying to say. Yes, there was a lot of good happenings in the Dark Ages, but, answer to this :

Humanity wouldn´t be better today if Romans had never falled to the Germanic barbarians?

I think so. Humans wishes freedom, and very few were free that time. Thousands get killed in the Crusades, 3/4 of Europes population was decimated by the Plague. Maybe they didn´t complained, after all, they were born in that ambient. But you can´t deny they were being oppressed.

The Roman Empire start to fall apart when Julius Caesar was assasinated by the Romanic-pure Senators (his son was one of them) with 13 stabs. After that, the Empire was handed to his other son, Octavius. The Empire was splitted in 2 parts, and some years later fall to the barbarians.
What would be Humanity today if the assassination hadn´t happened? I think we would be 300, 400 years more advanced than now.

[the-widow-maker]

Zaldron said:

I think the most important question to ask is : why are you a racist?

And don´t come with some kind of crap, disliking people because of their nationality IS racism.

Well if you must know I don't mind americans at all,some of my best friends are from there,but I get annoyed when twats like dead nail call me inbred because the monarchy is.I mean wtf? I am flattered that he is likening me to royalty but come on! Do not accuse me of being racist though,since I stand very strongly against it,I was just falling back on the pre-conceived stereotype of an american,just as you think we all sip tea, walk around and say shit like 'chocks away ginger!' and 'tally ho!' and all that shit.But please understand this-the only thing I find more offensive than racism are fat women out on the pull.

Thx 4 your time

[Zaldron]

I just based my racism question because of the amount of negative comments directed to the american members of this forum, besides, you have already posted 2 times with the title "God save the Queen", like if you were proud of not being american.

[the-widow-maker]

Zaldron said:

The senator system comes from the Ancient Romans, one of the most powerful civilizations ever. You´re proud of the system that halted Human progression for like 1000 years.

Yes but the system was OLD fasioned,which is my whole point,also I think the americans democratic system could have come up with something more original, mind you they were all bible-bashing puritans but don't get me into that.You clearly also know very little about history.Not only did a monarcy carve the way into the modern world(the industrial revolution under Queen Victoria) it also allowed Britain to florish as the most powerful empire ever known in the 18-19th century,controlling far more land mass and economical power than the romans could ever dream of.In fact,the monarcy alone,which allowed funding for various projects throughout european and indeed British history,has resulted in the world as it is today AND England is considered as the most important country for making these changes,along side France and Spain throughout the renaissance period.
I can see why you have a distorted view of the monarcy since America is an extremely young country with most of its culture coming from abroad and therefore to be 'modern' has adopted a democratic govt. but you must remember-so have we! the monarcy began losing its power ever since James II signed the magna carter-the queen now does surprisingly little.

But what the fuck am I telling you this for? This forum is about DOOM 3!!

[Tetzlaff]

Zaldron said:

I understand what you´re trying to say. Yes, there was a lot of good happenings in the Dark Ages, but, answer to this :

Humanity wouldn´t be better today if Romans had never falled to the Germanic barbarians?

I think so. Humans wishes freedom, and very few were free that time. Thousands get killed in the Crusades, 3/4 of Europes population was decimated by the Plague. Maybe they didn´t complained, after all, they were born in that ambient. But you can´t deny they were being oppressed.

The Roman Empire start to fall apart when Julius Caesar was assasinated by the Romanic-pure Senators (his son was one of them) with 13 stabs. After that, the Empire was handed to his other son, Octavius. The Empire was splitted in 2 parts, and some years later fall to the barbarians.
What would be Humanity today if the assassination hadn´t happened? I think we would be 300, 400 years more advanced than now.

Humanity wouldn´t be better today if Rome would have continued. In fact Rome was getting old and week by itself and a new time began, it wasn´t just forced by Germanic "barbarians" (also they weren´t barbarians).
Human wishes freedom, this is right for our times, but the idea of freedom took centuries to grow. The Romans had slaves, the whole Roman world wouldn´t have worked without slaves. The middle ages had no slavery, they had a complicated system of interdependence between lords and leaseholders (is this the right word?), for example the lords had to ask the leaseholders for the tributes every time. And the whole thing changed very often...ah it is just to complicated to explain properly. There is just too much prejudice in the popular opinion about the middle ages. For example, most people today think that the medieval people thought the world would be flat, but that isn´t right, they naturally knew that it is a sphere (or the form of an "apple", like they said). People see movies like Braveheart and just believe that the medieval humans lived in the mud all the time...

-Oh and what you say about the splitting after Caesar´s death... The highest state of the Roman Empire just started after Caesars death, first there was a hard civil war, and then this war came to an end and under the regime of the the victorious Octavian (the Caesar son Octavius you mentionend), later called Augustus, the "golden ages" of Rome began. The splitting of the empire was centuries later!

[Zaldron]

the-widow-maker said:

But what the fuck am I telling you this for? This forum is about DOOM 3!!

You´re damn right about that, but lately this forum had become into a rant&raves one.

The monarchy actually worked in the 18th and 19th century. I know about that because that´s when my country gained independence. I live in Argentina, so you must have heard this name cause of the Falklands. No, don´t worry, im not one of those crazy guys that want the Falklands back, in fact, they look to me like a pile of useless shit.
England, Spain and France were basically the rulers of America back in those centuries.
But today´s different, in fact, every political system today is becoming really old. It´s true, King/Queens today have little power over the government maneuvers, isn´t that enough to just discard the system? create something more original? Im not talking about democracy, that´s getting old. Instead of changing the government system in the middle of a bloodbath, why they don´t modernize at their own way right now?

The Romans controlled FAR more lands than England. Such a great Empire can´t be recreated today. It had it´s flaws, but damn, it was created more than 2000 years ago. I can honestly say that it was a wonder that humans could get such a degree of civilization in a time when swords chopped heads more often than you blinking. Of course, the Roman empire is a product of the greek civilizations, descendants of the Minos Isle inhabitants, so this is far older.

[Zaldron]

Tetzlaff said:

Rome was getting old, but the system was being re-fashioned. They weren´t slaves in the Middle Age?

I´m using the term "barbarian" because that´s how they called the romans the germanics. Of course they weren´t crazed beserkers.

The Feudalism was some kind of "hidden slavery". It was far more better than the real slave system back then. But you can´t deny that the farmers were heavily pushed by their Lords, specially in war times. (Fact: a chain mesh armor costed 10,000 ha of wheat)

Caesar was killed because he was going to implement some today´s democracy features. He was going to become King instead of Imperator, but with these changes :

* He was releasing most of the slaves acquired in the last wars. Sons of slaves weren´t precisely slaves, they could have real jobs.

* He was going to expand the senate, allowing the conquered countries to place members to make laws fair for everyone.

The 2nd point is one of the key features of democracy. In the Middle Age, instead, there was a bunch of mad Kings who ruled as they wished. Im sure there was a lot of good persons in the place, but granting so much power to a person was like trusting in random. When Caesar got killed, his heritage was simple : "donate my riches to the people". Touched by this last order from Caesar, the mob persecuted the killer senators (who didn´t want to share their power with foreigns).


About your update. The decay come much later than Caesar´s death, but taking in consideration what i just posted here, I´m sure Rome would have been a better place (at least for the non-Rome habitants) if things went like Julius wanted.

[Tetzlaff]

Sure it was hard for the farmers to work for the lord´s chain mesh armor, but primarely the lords needed this armor to defend their farmers. Although there was abuse of that interdependance especially in later times, it also worked fairly well many times. And it´s far from antique slavery.

-Rome was very succesfull under Augustus, although he became princeps (in fact a monarc), similar to Caesar´s plans, and democracy was almost gone.

[Zaldron]

I haven´t had a decent conversation in years here in this forum... :)

Im sure the sytem worked. In fact, almost every one seems to work in the theory. It´s the human behavior that ruins it. The abuse that Lords comitted to their servants is just like the way today´s presidents fools around with some groups of people.
Slaves weren´t a good thing in the humanity-related view. But the very foundations of the Civilization were based on slaves. They were the low-budget force that builded the great ancient cities and temples. Without that, even with reasonable-payed workers, things wouldn´t have grown so "fast".

[deadnail]

Zaldron said:

I remember watching Spartacus in World History class. I had just smoked a big fucking joint with my toker Jade right beforehand and I can't believe I didn't get thrown out of class.

Every damn time they shown a closeup of that Spaniard slave I went, "¡Hola!" really loud, which was like every other five minutes or so. At one point I added, "Mi chilito es muy mal, es en fuego." in the most insulting accent I could muster. The spanish guy in class starting laughing.

I just sat on top of my desk in the back of the class and ripped on that movie as MST3K taught me well. I think the only reason the teacher didn't throw me out was because he was laughing so hard.

It was a good day had by all. Then I went home, sat down, and started playing myself some Duke Nukem 3D coop with the dude that ran the local arcade. A girl called me and just told me she started going out with her boyfriend again. Wow, great. You mean the guy that just ditched you after he finally got some? Yeah this is going to last. So I gave her the empty 'Good luck', sat down, smoked a few cigars, and started watching Akira for the first time.

Another girl called right when Tetsuo just blew up the doctors in the hallway too, I was really into that damn movie. Long story short I started hanging out with her the next day. One day later we were officially together. One day later my tongue was inside her. I ate her out before we even kissed. One day later, well, heheh, I was officially a man.

I went home, smoked another cigar, and sat around sniffing my fingers for a very long time. Then I listened to Strapping Young Lad then Joy Electric (In that order) and fell asleep... and had a pleasant dream for once.

It's funny... I know she made me happy to be with her an' all but I still feel like I should miss her or something. She was fucking Mexicans for free cocaine and what not but I still think I owe her some emotions. Nah, maybe not.

I'm still thinking about the other girl, though, and I never even got close to her. Hell, I never even got to hold her hand.

She left that guy, then went out with this guy. He left her after fucking her, then I moved in and told her how much I loved her. Then she moved upstate and started fucking some guy she just met named John. God, I love life. I need another joint. I'm almost out of Red Stripe so I might turn into a super asshole pretty soon here.


What's the fucking point, you ask?
Well, I like being an asshole by interrupting two people having an intelligent conversation with stupid shit that no one could care about less. :)

[Zaldron]

Love Akira. The first time I saw one of the movies I had 12 years old. I didn´t understood a shit.
I saw it again years later, when I actually begun to understand the whole polithical/religious aspect of the movie. Is damn good, plus the anime is really well done. Shades and motions are one of the bests so far.

[Guest elyuca]

Everybody shut up!
Especially you widow maker. id is an american game developing company, and all their products are technically american. Sure, the uk comes out with some good titles too like GTA, but youre so-called doom fan, and Doom 3 will be an american game, so this little game youre waiting so much for is not worth your idiotic nationalism which you openly advise. Im NOT american, America is all about marketing, investing etc., so everybody else shut the fuck up about your damn stars and sripes, because the us is a world power not becasue of national pride, but because americans will sell you actual shit if they could just to make their economy grow, and if it wasnt for the rip-off american economy, you would just have a bunch of farmers hoeing wheat.
So, widow maker, be a victim of the american marketing scheme and buy Doom 3 when it comes out. I will, but thats because Im a Doom fan like you, and I have to put up with taxes that only go to pay for old people's medicine. I cant change the government, but you live in england, you dont have to put up with this shit, people dont sue you for stepping on their cat's tail. Think about it when you buy Doom, most of that money is going to pay for american marketing and publishing.

[Shaviro]

Just because your girlfriend's name is Frank, doesnt mean u have the right to say Americans are dumb.

WHY would you want to choose nationality? Its not a soccer game...

[Guest Lament]

Zaldron said:

Zaldron you're so damn biased. You think progress is good. You're wrong, progress is not good or bad, it's just there, that's all. It's wrong to say Middle Ages 'halted human progression'. Yes, technological progress. But was it a bad thing? (And don't reply me that I wouldn't have DooM without technological progress :) ) You can't say people are happier now than they were before, because it's so obviously wrong. You also can't say they were less free back then. Human beings are never free. And human beings don't even like to be free. And slaves didn't usually think they were so damn unlucky because they were slaves. Just like now people don't think they are unlucky because they have to go to work every day. After a thousand years people would think about today as a horrible Dark Ages when people had to go to work every day, children couldn't drink alcohol (in some of the most developed countries, fuck it) and people couldn't walk nude on the streets.
Just think: can you really be free, if you can't walk nude on the streets? Really think about it :)

[the-widow-maker]

Zaldron said:

Zaldron,having read the previous posts of yours I must comment on your nearly flawless history-perhaps your not so dumb after all :) However the Roman empire cannot be compared to the 19th Century British empire as it was less than 2/3 of the size but you are right about one thing-to have an empire of that size and to be able to maintain it for that length of time before Romes eventual downfall,truely was impressive espesially when you consider this was 1700 years ago.I've said it before and I'll say it again wtf does this have to do with doom3?

[NiGHTMARE]

Actually just under 50% of the British public see the monarchy as a waste of space and want to dump 'em. If we could just get that figure over 50%, we might have a chance :)

Having said that, for some reason the Australians love the Queen, so they probably wouldn't let us get rid of her, or maybe she'd just move to Sidney or something ;)

Anyway, time for a little "unknown" history, some of which is just speculation, but if you look around hard enough you'll find the evidence for it.

While America is considered a democracy, there's a lot of external influence on it. Asides from the various "private donaters" (*cough* Bill Gates *cough*), there are several secret societies who have powerful influences over various senior US government officials.

First is an ancient cult known as the Illuminati, who I believe originated in the middle east, specifically in Egypt. Their symbol is the eye over a pyramid you see in American dollar bills. I'm not to sure about their history and modus operendi, but these guys are ancient rivlas of the Knights Templar, who contrary to popular belief didn't start out in Britain.

Britain (well, Scotland really) kind of adopted the KT when they started being persecuted by various kings and religious societies jealous over their vast wealth, although they were officially denounced as "heretics". The KT apparently had a LOT of ancient religious artifacts, supposedly including the Arc of the Covenant, the Holy Grail, and a couple of pieces of the true cross.

Allegedly an expedition led by a KT and an Italian shipwright discovered America around a century before Columbus was even born, when they were looking for an undiscovered island where the surviving KT members could move to and live in peace.

Somewhere along the East Coast of the US there is an old, pre-Columbus Native American statue that appears to depict a European Knight. Nearby is what is supposedly an early colonial mill, but as several people have noted, it is remarkably similar in design to European watch towers of the early middle ages. There's also a church somewhere around that VERY closely follows the design of a Knights Templar chapel in Scotland, I think there's something about it facing north-south rather than the usual east-west (or was it the other way round, I'm not religious so I don't know).

When everyone started emmigrating to the American colonies, a lot of the KT survivors came to America and were happily welcomed into ranks of the Stone Masons, creating kind of a secret society within a secret society that still exists today. And we all know the power of the Stone Masons.

Of course the KT and the SM know all about the Illuminati, and visa versa...

/end bollocks-mode