Revisitng the Doom3 soundtrack thing.

[Jayextee]

Hmmm... after a short absence from these forums (I actually had better things to do than to argue with retards... All of which seem to have disappeared) I visit, and the general concensus about Doom3's soundtrack is: NIN sucks, and Trent Reznor shouldn't do it.

W.H.A.T T.H.E F.U.C.K is half the population here smoking?

Okay, so maybe Quake's music (By Trent) wasn't the hottest game sountrack ever, but there was a lot more to it than most of the people here seem to realise. Maybe you only heard the 'Intro' (Demo playing) song and decided that a little screaming hurts your fragile ears.

Quake's soundtrack can be compared almost directly to the Williams Doom soundtrack (PSX, Saturn, N64) - which a lot of people here seem to hold in high regard, or so I've noticed.

Both soundtracks are semi-ambient with the merest hint of melody.
Both seem to have random sound effects played to induce paranoia in the player, and thus make him/her afraid to venture around the next corner.
And both feature what sounds like a building brick being scraped across the floor ;)

This is where the comparison ends. The WDOOM (As it shall henceforth be referred to in this post) 'musical' element is minimal at best, comprising mostly of low strings, and only three notes are ever played at a time. I beleive one of the tracks only has the aforementioned piece ONCE amidst seven minutes of synth 'wind' sounds (Which are poor).
Sound effects that are inserted randomly are usually babies crying, or the aforementioned brick-on-floor noise. Basically, this passes for tension-inducing, but the same effect is to be had playing without music (I had played a mod-chip comilation of FPS where the .XA files were reduced to half a second of silence to make more room for other, inferior games on the disc - thus resulting in silence.).

Quake, on the other hand had mostly electirc guitars, played at low volume, with a white-noise envelope. I recall one riff in particular that built up throughout the level, until it's the only thing I was thinking of. (It's the track with the whispering at the beginning played on E3's final level)
Sound effects that are included are mostly variants of the in-game sounds (With either a pitch or phase shift) and create a sense of fear to players entering new areas. There are additional sounds, such as what sounds like somebody bangin a metal bucket on a brick wall, and a sound similar to the tearing of flesh.
It's not all good, though. The 'installation' levels (E?M1) had this monotonous, repetetive track. Presonally, I can't stand it, but it reminded me of machinery - it had a VERY mechanical rythmn.
Anybody who first played through Quake with the CD music present can vouch for the paranoia-inducing qualities it has. The unfamiliar territory coupled with basically a NEW kind of game soundtrack (AFAIK it had never been done like that before) created quite a memorable experience.

Back on the Doom3 tangent, I wouldn't mind if TR's aural representation harked back the the Quake soundtrack. However, I would prefer (As has been mentioned) remixes, BY TR, of the Bobby Prince music. After playing Doom to NIN's latest, Things Falling Apart (Which I originally hated, but hell, it grows on a guy!) I personally would like to see the inclusion of fast-paced industrial (But nearly techno. NEARLY) music, a la remix no.2 of StarF..kers Inc. from TFA, as a change of pace from slow, moody ambience, a la A Warm Place (TDS). Maybe the faster music for DM (Fragging to SiN - PHM - is excellent). Nonetheless, Trent Reznor's musical talent is quite unique, and worthy of inclusion in Doom3. I've come to think of his work, NOT as music, more 'Soundtracks' - mainly reflective of moods or states of mind.

Anybody care to argue this point? I have thrown down the gauntlet to thee.

[the-widow-maker]

Yeah whatever, I prefer not to wade thro 3 tons of text but I get your point. Anywho at the end of the day if the music is great but the game is shit then Id will have problems indeed. Let them concentrate on the gameplay is what I say, and leave the music for later-but still put effort into it.In fact I cooulnt give a shit if they just took some stuff from doom64 and quake but hey thats probably just me.

[NiGHTMARE]

ID aren't putting ANY effort into the music, they don't even have any musicians on the team.

That's why they've hired someone else (i.e. Reznor).

[SoKatH]

Well, I know what I'm smoking! But BooHowdy! How could anybody say that Trent and NIN (actually it's pretty much just Trent these days) sucks?? I mean for the love of Christ! Trent is amazing, even if he claims he "isn't industrial"! NIN is some of the best music I've listened to in a while. The same people who are saying that NIN sucks are just the same people listening to Limp Dick, er Bizkit, and em"i'm rich but still am a fucking malcontented bitch"inem, ooh and let's not forget Papa Roach... they're amazing.. fuck I hate people like that! people who buy into and make the angry music just because its trendy, they're no fucking different than the little twelve year old girls who listen to *nsuck (where the hell do they get off putting a star before their name anyway!) Why don't they leave of truly angry people alone.. but I digress...

Back to my original topic..
Trent and NIN === good
anyone who says otherwise === deserves to be dragged out into the street and shot

S./

[Lüt]

NiGHTMARE said:

ID aren't putting ANY effort into the music, they don't even have any musicians on the team.That's why they've hired someone else (i.e. Reznor).

Heh, and even still, they don't have any musicians on their team :P

[Lüt]

OK, I didn't read every single word in there, but your basic jist is that Nine Inch Nails is good music. Uh... no. I don't know how else to explain it. If you can't see through his shallow act, take a few courses in production or recording. The guy has NO frickin clue what he's doing. You ever see those stubborn little kids who get told and then PROVED their doing soemthing bad/wrong, but continue to do it just because? That's the best analogy I can use to describe Trent. How you can like his crap I don't know - stop buying all the one-hit-wonder bands that have their videos all over MTv; it's ruining your musical tastes. You must be listening to all those other bands SoKatH listed below. Right now, you're so lost I don't even know what musical direction to point you in. Let's just start by cutting that NIN crap from your musical diet, whatever that may be. I'm not gonna waste time explaining good music to you if you don't have a few hundred $$ to spend on CDs or a high-speed internet connection to download a few hundred MP3s off Napster.

[Shaviro]

Lüt said:

Heh, and even still, they don't have any musicians on their team :P

Heh, no!

[Shaviro]

NiGHTMARE said:

ID aren't putting ANY effort into the music, they don't even have any musicians on the team. That's why they've hired someone else (i.e. Reznor).

They really should! Music is a huge part of a game. It's one of the things that attracts most nostalgia. If the music is good, the game will be better, if the music is bad, the game will be worse!

[Jon]

Lüt said:

I totally disagree with you. You seem to think that music is about being remote, un `mainstream', and that other people enjoying the same music as you do is a crime.

[Lüt]

No. If I didn't want people listening to the same stuff I do, I wouldn't go to the lengths I do to support it. Trent's method of throwing a few loops together and running them through 10 FX processors to make up for the zero content of his songs does NOT qualify him as a musician to me. OK he writes songs, but then anybody who writes songs no matter how good or bad is a musician, but I mean a notable musician. One thing that looks good for the Doom3 soundtrack is that he won't be singing. He's probably the 2nd worst singer I've heard next to Marilyn Manson. I realize the less complex you make your songs, the more success you get. I think that's very inverted. All the unique bands with talent and songwriting you've probably never heard (and never will) on a TV or radio are where I go, because anything that's too unique doesn't make TV or radio because not enough people will "get it". There's OK stuff coming out nowadays but NIN isn't it. He can make interesting noises and that's the extent of any worthwhile material on most of his discs. I don't think he could have made The Fragile more boring and basic (structurally) if he got together with a group of people for 3 months and tried. Like I probably said 2,000 times already, running instruments through FX processors does NOT make up for lack of musical content. End of the NIN discussion.

[NiGHTMARE]

Saying that all NIN songs are a bunch of random loops run through FX synths is basically like saying that all heavy metal songs go "Raaaaaaaaaah raaaaaaaaaaah", with heavy power chords and drums that sound like a chimp is playing them.

[Lüt]

A good deal of them are :)

I was talking mostly of The Fragile with the loops thing, although it's pretty easy to see through any of his basic song structures. The guy tries, I give him credit for that. He does have potential. But being the stubborn one he is, he won't let anybody else in on the band. It takes remixers to make anything above-par out of his songs (and he's sure had a good deal of horrible remixes too). If only he'd work TOGETHER with his remixers DURING the album, it would not only probably triple the quality of his work, but save the need for 3-4 additional discs per album just to cover the ground the original albums could.