idSoftware on Boss'es.

[Jeremy]

Well, from the past few games id has released, they have been going Down in skill. id is sucking at making bosses. Lets see...Quake 3- You fight some chinease dude as an end boss. Quake2- Ha,what is that, an incredibly weak mechanical kangaroo?
Quake- A giant white tree that you have to telefrag. wtf!?
Doom2- A hole in the wall that shoots out boxes, and a texture over it to look like a boss. Inside of the hole is John Romeros head on a stick, JOHN REMEROS HEAD ON A STICK WAS THE ACTUAL BOSS!
Now, on the other hand, good ol' Doom1 had the best boss EVER...The Cyberdemon.
Im just afraid id is gonna goof up the boss. I really hope not.

I also think the zombies should have a random texture of skin, and different random bosy part so that they dont all look the friggen same :P

[SoKatH]

I wish you'd learn how to spell.

S./

[NiGHTMARE]

Well, spelling Romero as Remero is blasphemy, but I really think he just needs to learn how to use the ' key.

[Zaldron]

First than all, original DooM 1 had a Spider Mastermind as final boss.
Xaero was a crappy boss (in the terms of bosseness) because it was just a bot (there´s no single-play on Q3A). Besides, it´s pretty hard, the harder of the iD bosses.
Makron (Q2) is a really hard boss. Try to beat him without hiding behind the big columns. Impossible.
Shub`Niggurath is crappy, that´s right.
DooM 2´s pathetic final boss... with today DooM ports you don´t even have to bother to do it right.

The bosses of DooM 1 were scary. But pathetic too.
The barons of hell?? P-I-E-C-E O-F C-A-K-E
The Cyberdaemon?? A 10 mph hard-to-miss objective that shoots slow rockets on a 1 km^2 area.
The Spider Mastermind?? Please...

iD never made great bosses. The best FPS bosses I ever saw were Morcalavin (heretic 2), Eidolon (heXen 2) and The Heresiarch (heXen 1 and my pic).

[NiGHTMARE]

Id NEVER made great bosses? Man, have you never played Wolfenstein 3D or Spear of Destiny?

"Eine kleine Americano.."

[Zaldron]

I forgot about Wolf3D. Long time since the last time I played (7 years). That game got good bosses (for those early times, of course).
Spear of Destiny´s not an iD product.

[SoKatH]

NiGHTMARE said:

Id NEVER made great bosses? Man, have you never played Wolfenstein 3D or Spear of Destiny?

"Eine kleine Americano.."

While I'm being a whore, its Americaner.

"Die! Allied Schweinhund!"

S./

[NiGHTMARE]

Zaldron said:

I forgot about Wolf3D. Long time since the last time I played (7 years). That game got good bosses (for those early times, of course).
Spear of Destiny´s not an iD product.

Then why does it have copyright 1992 ID Software plastered eveywhere, and all the old ID team in the high scores?

[SoKatH]

Zaldron said:

I forgot about Wolf3D. Long time since the last time I played (7 years). That game got good bosses (for those early times, of course).
Spear of Destiny´s not an iD product.

Yeah SOD was an id product, its in their "Shopping Maul" I'm 99% sure it was theirs.

S./

[NiGHTMARE]

SoKatH said:

While I'm being a whore, its Americaner.

"Die! Allied Schweinhund!"

S./

I just spelled it like it's pronounced in the game. The pronounciation of a lot of the stuff in that game is screwed.

[Jeremy]

SoKatH said:

I wish you'd learn how to spell.

S./

Y doe yuo lawasy gto ot ba an ass Sokatth? It"s teh pe\\ple liek yuo woh startflame warzs. Adn aNE way, whuts thh matetr if Ie speell somting wrong!? It it gonma killl yoo? J/K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I type 84 wpm at an 86% accuracy, which is REALLY good for my age. The average kid in my classes at MY age of 14 type 40 wpm, I type twice as fast.

[Zaldron]

NiGHTMARE said:

Then why does it have copyright 1992 ID Software plastered eveywhere, and all the old ID team in the high scores?

I think it was made by the ROTT team. Back when they were beggining development, I read somewhere that it was from a different team of Apogee (sorta like a mission pack).

[NiGHTMARE]

Sorry, you read wrong. How do I know? Well, here's the credits:

Chief Operating Officer: Jay Wilbur
Software Engineers: John Carmack, John Romero
Master of the Pixel: Adrian Carmack
Creative Director: Tom Hall
Art & Manual Design: Kevin Cloud
Composer: Robert Prince
Cover Illustration: Ken Rieger
Beta Testers: who cares? :)

Looks damned like Id Software to me... ;)

[deadnail]

Jeremy said:

Y doe yuo lawasy gto ot ba an ass Sokatth? It"s teh pe\\ple liek yuo woh startflame warzs. Adn aNE way, whuts thh matetr if Ie speell somting wrong!? It it gonma killl yoo? J/K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I type 84 wpm at an 86% accuracy, which is REALLY good for my age. The average kid in my classes at MY age of 14 type 40 wpm, I type twice as fast.

Yeah and the average 14 year old punk can't draw as well as you can either. Don't let up on either, and when you graduate you should promptly fuck college and go to DeVry and study computer programming/systems analyst for a degree.

If you want to go anywhere, that is. It's a lot cheaper than college and will take you further... just in one direction. Just pick a single target. :)

BTW, junior, SoKatH asking if you could spell better is not a good example of a flame war. This is:

I WISH THAT FUCKING CUNT STAIN WOULD FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE HIS FUCKING KEYBOARD BEFORE I SHOVE IT UP HIS ASS AND KICK HIM IN THE BALLS UNTIL THE LETTER T FLIES OUT OF HIS NOSE! GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING ASSRAMMING LITTLE BITCH FUCKHOLE OUGHTA LEARN HOW TO TYPE!

Or something like that.

Ahem.

[SoKatH]

Jeremy said:

Y doe yuo lawasy gto ot ba an ass Sokatth? It"s teh pe\\ple liek yuo woh startflame warzs. Adn aNE way, whuts thh matetr if Ie speell somting wrong!? It it gonma killl yoo? J/K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I type 84 wpm at an 86% accuracy, which is REALLY good for my age. The average kid in my classes at MY age of 14 type 40 wpm, I type twice as fast.

I trust you were INTENTIONALLY mispelling there... Anyway, as I was saying, a little proof-reading wouldn't hurt here and there. It makes you look smarter if you spell right. Why not improve your spelling like you improved the quality of your ideas and posts (yes that WAS a compliment, don't take it as anything but...)

Indeed that is good for a kid your age. And you just keep telling the rest of those jackasses who call you a nerd for typing so fast to fuck off, they deserve it.

As for my starting of flame wars, I actually dislike them, unless they're in good fun. And as deadnail points out below (or is it above) me, stating my oppinion that I wished you to learn how to spell is not the way to start a flamewar.

S./

[Espi]

Yeah I agree with 'em zombies being silly looking all same they should look different.

[Disorder]

Jeremy said:

Doom2- A hole in the wall that shoots out boxes, and a texture over it to look like a boss.

I think The Icon of Sin was a pretty cool boss... (Not too hard, but it looked creepy... Imagine that with today's rendering techniques......) !! I just didn't like the fact that i shoots out boxes. It would have been somuch cooler if it attacked you in another way..

[Zaldron]

NiGHTMARE said:

Sorry, you read wrong. How do I know? Well, here's the credits:

Chief Operating Officer: Jay Wilbur
Software Engineers: John Carmack, John Romero
Master of the Pixel: Adrian Carmack
Creative Director: Tom Hall
Art & Manual Design: Kevin Cloud
Composer: Robert Prince
Cover Illustration: Ken Rieger
Beta Testers: who cares? :)

Looks damned like Id Software to me... ;)

Yep, you´re right, forgive my ignorance...

[Jeremy]

deadnail said:

Yeah and the average 14 year old punk can't draw as well as you can either. Don't let up on either, and when you graduate you should promptly fuck college and go to DeVry and study computer programming/systems analyst for a degree.

If you want to go anywhere, that is. It's a lot cheaper than college and will take you further... just in one direction. Just pick a single target. :)

BTW, junior, SoKatH asking if you could spell better is not a good example of a flame war. This is:

I WISH THAT FUCKING CUNT STAIN WOULD FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE HIS FUCKING KEYBOARD BEFORE I SHOVE IT UP HIS ASS AND KICK HIM IN THE BALLS UNTIL THE LETTER T FLIES OUT OF HIS NOSE! GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING ASSRAMMING LITTLE BITCH FUCKHOLE OUGHTA LEARN HOW TO TYPE!

Or something like that.

Ahem.

Thanks. Well, uh oh, here it comes. Im not 14...Yep, im gonna be 14 in February. :)

[Tetzlaff]

SoKatH said:

While I'm being a whore, its Americaner.

"Die! Allied Schweinhund!"

S./

No, you´re both wrong, it´s "ein kleiner Amerikaner" ;)

[Windowpain]

NiGHTMARE said:

Well, spelling Romero as Remero is blasphemy, but I really think he just needs to learn how to use the ' key.

Hey I'm 15 and I type at around only 68 wpm.This Jeremy guy is the last one that deserves flaming around here.I play DOOM like a mofo though.

[EllipsusD]

Can you honestly think of any FPS that has had good bosses? It's not as easy as you think to come up with these things. If you can think of a good way to do it, please enlighten me. It seems that the only thing that makes a boss a boss is the fact that it's weaponry is superior to any that you have seen to date, and it has HP out the wazoo. It has long been a standard (for reasons of space I imagine) to re-use bosses as standard enemies later in the game. True, there have been some exceptions, but they are just that: exceptions.
A boss seems to be just a character that will give you more trouble to beat than a standard enemy in the game. It follows that without creating an entirely new creature, the only way to make a boss stand out it to add in game story aspects that would introduce this boss as being more than just a normal lackey. To get around this (which it seems more players prefer) a new enemy is created that has no being beyond its attacks and appearance. Sadly, new enemies using this formula lack greatly in the difficulty that other methods tend to produce.
In the end, if you want decent bosses you have to sacrifice something. But who knows. Id may pull things together if they see a large enough call for improved bosses. It's something to hope for. At any rate, the only decent bosses I've seen in a game I've played recently have been in Alice. But that's just of the games I have played.

[Lüt]

EllipsusD said:

Can you honestly think of any FPS that has had good bosses? It's not as easy as you think to come up with these things.

This isn't ENTIRELY ID, but Hexen had an awesome final boss, and final level at that. Heretic's end boss D'Sparil was rather well-done also.

[geekmarine]

Here's a unique idea, what if Doom 3 had the Icon of Sin, but when you beat it, instead of dying, it smashes out of it's enclosure to kill you. Of course, when standing up, it would be HUGE, and I think that would make for a pretty unique boss experience.

[stphrz]

Lüt said:

This isn't ENTIRELY ID, but Hexen had an awesome final boss, and final level at that. Heretic's end boss D'Sparil was rather well-done also.

Yes, the boss was well done. Too bad the rest of the monsters in Heretic(with the odd execption) weren't so hot.

[Guest Jadar]

How about don't have a boss? I know it would break the FPS formula but who cares? It's getting old. How about a realy hard last level that you must use tactics and stratagy in... Imagine a game with something like "The Matrix"'s loby shooting spree sene as an ending...

[EllipsusD]

There has to be some sort of boss or event that you cause in order for the game to have closure and purpose. Otherwise, what was the purpose of playing the game in the first place? Why were you killing the demons if you weren't trying to stop them? There is no way you can kill them all, so you are trying to kill or destroy whatever it is that is causing/allowing them to become a problem.

[Lüt]

Stphrz said:

Yes, the boss was well done. Too bad the rest of the monsters in Heretic(with the odd execption) weren't so hot.

I thought they were all pretty decent. Good variety at least. I still don't get how those Weredragons drop Ethereal Arrows, but whatever. I guess they take a little more imagination to make real.

[Guest fraggle`]

NiGHTMARE said:

Id NEVER made great bosses? Man, have you never played Wolfenstein 3D or Spear of Destiny?

"Eine kleine Americano.."

as bosses go, you dont get much better than "boobus tuber" in keen.