Death for the wicked?

[EllipsusD]

Just something that I have been thinking about... It is pretty muc unanimous in the Doom community that the enemies in Doom were from Hell. So, what ,technically, does this make them? Mortal or Immortal, or something else. The theme basically plays that the wicked are sent to hell upon their death. Well, that's simplified, but still. So, when you kill a Hell-spawn, does it go back to Hell? Or is there some limbo in between? It seems to me that if a creature was aware that death could not stop it, why would it fear death. I imagine it would get cocky and take greater chances to kill you (more kamikaze). I'm bringing this up, because I feel that is something that should be taken into account when id creates the new AI. What are your thoughts on the matter?

[Guest Johnny Kaos]

true.

It wouldnt make much sence for deamons and shit to go run and hide.

[deadnail]

I'll try to avoid as many religious references as I possibly can, since I know they'll just start a meaningless flamewar.

Basically, in most Roman Catholic / Judao Christian religions (Christianity included) you're sent to Hell when you die if you have unrepented sins (or unconfessed sins in Catholocism). In the Jewish faith you're sent to Purgatory first, where your life is judged.

Okay, that aside, there are HUNDREDS of interpretations of the words of the Bible on the state and purpose of Hell. Some say you go there and hang around in fire that burns but does not consume for all eternity. [FYI, 'Brimstone' is burning sulphur, whatta smell to hang around in eh?]

It would be a sadistic act of any God to punish someone immortally for any mortal crime, although you must take into account there is no such thing as a mortal crime nothing we do will have a planar effect.

So we were drunk and ran over a kid that would've grown up and brought world peace. Whoops. So we got in a barfight and accidentally cripped a man who could no longer provide for his children, hence became thieves. Whoops. Shit happens.

This is not the Hell I believe in, nor do I believe that my God could be so hateful as to send thousands of people there who didn't follow my religion to a T, especially those with no access to it (like tribesmen in Austraila and the like). That being the case I'm certainly headed to Hell. I have committed no serious sins or infractions of Biblical rules, although I have naughty language and I do interact in a few sins now and again. You know, just keepin' it real yo.

[FYI, the Bible also states that it's better to leave your seed in the belly of a whore than to let it touch the ground. Interesting life lesson. Pride goeth before a fall, so if you held at gunpoint it's better to suck the guy's dick than to die. Of course I think I'd rather die (Who wouldn't?).]

Specifically (in the King James version) it doesn't say that we suffer for all eternity, it says that the flames burn for all eternity. It states that we are sent to hell and 'destroyed'. I don't know about you but if I had the choice between either not existing or existing in eternal torment, I'd take the path of nonexistance. You would too, most obviously. That statement almost justifies euthanasia, doesn't it?

[FYI, King James mistranslated the Bible in several places. Most notable is the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill". There are 7 words in Latin for 'kill', he chose the wrong one. The correct translation is, "Thou shalt not murder" as the Bible condones execution and killing on several levels, just not murder. There is a difference.]

So long answer short, daemons were a metaphor of the Catholic church and have never really taken mortal flesh of any sort (possessions and other theorists aside, for another argument at another time).

Hell doesn't exist either in a physical plane. Neither do Angels or souls, they're metaphysical things. Stuff we were just not designed to comprehend and all that jazz.

So you know what?
If iD software wants to make a big ugly daemon that looks like a cross between a pig and a bull that hunts me down unrelenting while I'm running through random patches of fire and stone walls that are intended to represent the internal appearance of Hell while collecting 'soulspheres' and what have you, fuck it.

Make the game fun. That's all the counts. =)
People have argued over this shit for TWO FUCKING MILLENIA. Millions of people have died over these kinds of discussions.
Fuck it.

Make a good game, that's all. Leave this shit for the people that are willing to die for it. :)

[Guest Johnny Kaos]

blah blah blah blah

[FYI] blah blah

[EllipsusD]

deadnail said:

Since when has this been an arguement of religious beliefs? I am just stating what has been represented within Doom already. I don't want this to become a flame post either, but I don't want the religious aspect to be the main focus either.

[Tetzlaff]

The lost souls are wicked sent to hell after their death, and when you shoot them they are free - you are the lost souls messiah in Doom! :)
The Zombies are poor guys which became possessed, but they musn´t be sinners. Free them too, shotgun messiah.
Ahh, but the Heavy Weapon Dudes, I think they are sinister humans who willingly joined satanic service.
The other hellspawn isn´t former human, they are demons, evil spirits, devils, fallen angels...

[deadnail]

Johnny Kaos said:

blah blah blah blah

[FYI] blah blah

Well he wanted my stance on the issue and got it.

It would be fake regardless to have daemons showing intelligence (over animalisitic qualities) because as is they're just completely fictional things with little basis on actual Hell.

Long story short for people like you afraid of large posts:
It would suit the new game best if the daemons had teamwork and dodged your shots more effectively, because it's just a fucking video game and the details are going to get messed up anyways.

Clear enough for you?

[EllipsusD]

I feel some hostility, but what you say makes sense.

[deadnail]

Well think about the violence in Ireland right now and you can see that most people with any religion in them can't help but be hostile and defensive. Oh well, can't be helped.

[Disorder]

deadnail said:

so if you held at gunpoint it's better to suck the guy's dick than to die. Of course I think I'd rather die (Who wouldn't?)

Ricky Martin.

[NiGHTMARE]

deadnail said:

Well think about the violence in Ireland right now and you can see that most people with any religion in them can't help but be hostile and defensive. Oh well, can't be helped.

Right now? Mate, your several months out of date :) There's been no killings in quite some time.

Perhaps the Israel situation is more appropriate...

[Guest Johnny Kaos]

deadnail said:

Well he wanted my stance on the issue and got it.

It would be fake regardless to have daemons showing intelligence (over animalisitic qualities) because as is they're just completely fictional things with little basis on actual Hell.

Long story short for people like you afraid of large posts:
It would suit the new game best if the daemons had teamwork and dodged your shots more effectively, because it's just a fucking video game and the details are going to get messed up anyways.

Clear enough for you?

I'm not afraid of long posts...
I'm just lazy. get over it.

like you said it's just a game.
dont yell at me for it.

lol an un-made game at that.