RPG stuff

[Lord FlatHead]

OK, perhaps someone has said this before and got a knife in the back - but I am getting more and more convinced that the third Doom game should NOT be like the first two.

A lot of you seem to be convinced that the new game should be Doom all over again, but with kick-ass graphics and cool multiplayer abilities. We already have that. It's called Quake III Arena.

I have recently gotten my hands on Ion Storm's superlative-defying Deus Ex, and I was wondering how an action RPG based on Doom would be like. No matter what some people say about Doom's story and the novels (which I haven't actually read), I think there could be potential there for a good setting and storyline.

Deus Ex handled this well - having a basic story (There's a virus. Terrorists are messing with the vaccine) and building up a cohesive & immersive world around it. I personally have always liked the idea of 'skills' and character development. Shooting the super shotgun in Doom ][ was fun, but after a couple of maps the weapon wasn't offering anything new. A game like Deus Ex neatly solves this problem with the ability to upgrade your skills and weapons to a degree. I also like Deadnail's ideas of multiple types of ammo (like in No One Lives Forever).

I've always been kind of disappointed at the direction id have taken with story lines. Quake II had the best story and setting I think, with a great intro movie and a game world that was much more cohesive than Quake, which everyone will agree had a crap single-player game. But still, they didn't do enough to maintain that level of immersion troughout the game.

id have had so many opportunities to make a coherent, immersive and above all, innovative single player game. I pray to God they don't blow it this time.

[wasted]

Lord FlatHead said:

We already have that. It's called Quake III Arena.Deus Ex handled this well - having a basic story (There's a virus. Terrorists are messing with the vaccine) and building up a cohesive & imm

Thats the point to make multi-player with RPG elements- we are already have the game with usual combat rules: thats a Q3Arena (and thats a awsome game with a best/ simple multiplayer). I absolutely sure that Doom 3 will much more different from the previous Doom games and from the action games of our days...

[wasted]

Buy the way people, do you think that Q2 was good reincarnation for Doom traditions? Say something... My point is: Q2 was exellent and awsome single game for 1997(even for year later) with a hard and kickass multiplayer...

Bout incarnation: in Q2 its a all Doom classic weapons (super shotgun in Q2 is the best in hole Quake serie...) and have much of Doom industrial environment... and men, just look at those skyes...

i think Q2 take much more from Doom then from Quake...

[Tetzlaff]

I also enjoyed Quake2 very much, actually I play the single player since last week one time again. In comparison with other older SP games, I even like it more then Half Life, for example.
But I think it is in no way a reincarnation of the Doom traditions, it´s not even a reincarnation of Quake1 ! There are some nice similarities, but the whole athmosphere is totally different.

[sirgalahadwizar]

1) No, quake 3 was not a kick-ass graphics and cool multiplayer game. It was groosly underoptimized and made alot of us upgrade our systems for nothing. It does have good multiplayer support, but not too good of a gameplay though (and single player virtually doesn't exist).

2) RPG based doom would suck, if you remember the storyline from doom, you were pretty much alone, and nobody that you DID come across was friendly (or only vaguely human). So how would rpg work here?
Every so once in awhile run into a fellow marine and work with him a little bit? Hell no, he would probably blast your head off because he thought you were possessed.
And you can be damned sure that the zombies and imps aren't going to be friendly (because any such "flukes" would be killed off by other meanies like barons trying to keep ranks, sorta like a phrase i heard in a metallica song once ["new blood joins this earth..."])

Deus Ex takes place in a setting where there are lots of intelligent beings (i haven't played it yet and even I know that from some screenshots). I would agree that doom could be RPG-able if it were just an apocalypse that happened and humanity survived (vaguely), but almost all ofhumanity got killed off, and those who survived left earth (probably to be scattered throughout the galaxy).

3) Skill developmentis a good thing, but keep in mind that you can't realisticially hope to get better strength or toughness over the course of a few days of battle, but then again who's to say that the marine doesn't take off a few days or weeks before he attempts a new base or area (::remembers "aliens" movie where the girl stayed alive a long time::)

4) Quake 2 was ok, actually had a good story, but absolutly did not relate back to quake which technicially doesn't allow quake 2 to be a sequal (and quake makes no reference to doom, but it's not meant to be a sequal to doom though, and quake3 seems to be a dimensional nexus for all said games). Basicially, the storyline does not allow Quake2, Quake1, and doom to all exist in the same parallell dimension- their histories do not match up (doom doesn't allow quake2 to happen, quake 1 doesn't allow quake2 to happen, doom may POSSIBLY lead to quake1 - but doubtful). Actually I thought the single player element of quake1 was ok, the only thing i have against it is it's weapons were total crap (the shambler was the most menacing foe IMO).

I want the shambler to return in doom 3, possibly a baron overlord or a "wild" mutation or something. It was a fantastic creature to fight against.

[deadnail]

1) Agree.
2) Agree.
3) Agree.
4) Shambler? You call that a challenge? Walk up, walk back, walk up, walk back, firing away with whatever you've got. Explosives do half damage but Jesus, you can beat him with the standard shotgun and enough ammunition if you know what you're doing! :)

[wasted]

sirgalahadwizar said:

Dear Sir

1) Q3Arena have a kick-ass graphics and cool multiplayer: how to find out that? - Thats simple, call the most popular multi-game now, so... Q3Arena is a multiplayer game and it haven't single player at all, i think...

2) Bout that see wasted's message bout NPC - i will answear for each response...

3) look up...

4) i think Q2 have a lot from original Doom: same weapons (well, im not mentioning granade launcher..., hyper-blaster was just a version of Plasma-gun for Q2); the same industrial environment, classic items and besides - just look at those skyes... It was awsome single and multi player for year 1997 (even years later), so... I agree, that is no conecction between storyline in Quake serie. Well, some of the Quake single game elements were cool, but Shambler? Even ogries may couse much more damage then this one... Rocket launcher in Quake was good...

[sirgalahadwizar]

sirgalahadwizar said:

(::disgusted at people's flames::)

ok, the shamber had his advantages and disadvantages.

disadvantage: Killed easily by supernailgun (and esp. lightning gun). When it claws it can't shoot lightning.

Advantages: lightning spell gets damn annoying if not plain lethal.

sure, he's a big oaf. but it would be nice to see it come back (and when i mean that i mean it being more dangerous and tougher).

Quake3's graphics suck compared to UTs, and UT has much better multiplayer support.

Quake2 could'nt have followed from doom because earth was raided by the demons... and humans went into space. Quake2's storyline says that the Stroggos attacked earth, which would ahve to mean that it took place before the demon invasion.

[Tetzlaff]

sirgalahadwizar said:

So can you tell me a multiplayer game which has better gameplay then Quake 3 Arena? It´s the best multiplayer game to date! And I also haven´t seen better graphics.

[Guest Lament]

UT has better gameplay than Q3. Q3 is most about mindless slaughter. UT requires strategy. Even most of the Q3 fans admit it.
(And in my personal opinion, Q3 just sucks ass...)