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NiGHTMARE

Weapons guys, please read

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Regarding the partial conversion I'm going to try to make
(http://www.doomworld.com/forums/doom3/messages/11265.shtml).

Obviously there's not much I can do without the game and the engine, but I've started organising all the details, and one of the most important aspects is going to be the weaponry.

HOPEFULLY I can get someone to help me out with this when the time comes, but in the meantime I need some recommendations on exactly what weapons I should use (i.e. proper model types), baring in mind that the setting is a modern day, neo-noir style city, and you play a police homicide detective.

So far, I've decided on the following. I'd appreciate any different ideas for the weapons I've listed as well as names :)

1) Knife

2) Revolver - a PI style thing, like the revolver in Half-life. Should be slow and clunky, but powerful.

3) Pistol - Like the pistol in Half-life. Faster than the revolver, but less powerful.

4) Shotgun - The kind that US police often use on raids and stuff.

5) Some kind of automatic weapon - I'm thinking a uzi right now, but it doesn't exactly fit in a noir type setting.

6) Molotov cocktail - 'nuff said I think :)

7) Dunno - any other suggestions?

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1) Knife? Go for a Special Forces M9.

2) Revolver? The Colt Python .357 Magnum in Half-Life is an excellent revolver. If you want to imply more strength I would suggest an Anaconda instead, that's a .44 Magnum (it can shoot right through a truck engine). If you want to really make it fearsome you could make it a Taurus .454, but those things only hold 5 rounds (otherwise the chamber would split!). If you want it to convey a retarded amount of power go with an IMI BFR .440... that's just like a .44 but with twice as much powder. :) You could always go with a .38 special like the cops used to carry.

3) Pistol? The pistol in Half-Life was a Glock, a G17 to be more precise. Doom's pistol was designed after a Beretta 92FS. Either of these would accomplish the task quite well. If you want it to look different you could base your design off of a Steyr 9mm instead (they have a more dignified look IMHO). If you want to go with the all around perfect classic look go with a Colt M1911A1... that was the sidearm of the US Military in WWII. It's a damn nice .45, of course, the latest Colt Socom has made it obsolete. What about a H&K design instead? Take a look at this:
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/Pages/mk23.html

4) Shotgun? Well, I would suggest a Benelli M3 Super 90, you can find pictures of that anywhere. Half-Life went with the ultra-popular SPAS-12 shotgun design instead.

5) Noir automatic weapon? Don't go with the uzi, that's been too gansta-fied in the past to really fit well. Personally I'm a fan of this little puppy, the FN P90:
Small view: http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/index.htm
Bigass view: http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/index.htm
Small, lightweight, customizable to all hell and damn effective. BTW, the pistol in the second picture is the FN Five-seveN. 20 rounds a clip and every shot is armor piercing. If that doesn't do you any justice you could always just go with a Glock model 18C.

6) Molotov Cocktail? Make sure that it looks mixed up. Just gas is nothing but a firebomb; a Molotov Cocktail also contains styrofoam (to make napalm) and oil (to make it stick). Of course making in-game fire that clings to walls and just gets spread around worse by water might be difficult...

7) May I suggest that the pistol is a weaker weapon and later on you gain the Magnum revolver? Makes a helluva put-down weapon. Oh, and keep it a revolver. It has an aesthetic style to it that just can't be matched by a Desert Eagle.

Here are some other weapons that I would like to suggest, please don't take them too seriously (or any offense):

MM1 Grenade Launcher (12 cylinder, like a bigassed revolver)
You ever see those humongous gas grenade launchers that SWAT officers carry? They work with any type of 40mm grenade... explosive, tear gas, or howabout radium cyanide gas? :)

AS12 Combat Shotgun
20 Shell drums and semi-automatic. Too much? Thought so... heheh.

Well, what about pipe-bombs? Not the typical Duke trigger style, but dynamite style. Just a segment of white PVC piping filled up with shotgun shell powder and a fuse sticking out of the middle? Could be made much more fun with pebbles or broken glass inside. Toss one and run like hell.

Construction nail gun? Ineffective past a certian distance but causes some serious Goddamn pain when it hits. Should be extremely limited, and perhaps only used in a desperate situation (automatically tossed to the ground when you procure a gun).

Hey, here's a weapon for you. A fireman's tool. No, pervert, I'm talking about a four foot long steel pole with a double edged ax style end, one end a fire ax, the other end a heavy hammer head. Too much like Quake? Sorry...

What about a hunting rifle? Bolt action, 30-06 rounds most likely, damn accurate but slow as hell to operate and reload. Nah, screw this, too much like a sniper weapon.

Howabout... before you find the pump action shotgun you get a flare gun... only you don't load flares you load in shotgun shells. The spread would make it almost useless past 12 feet away and the reload and recoil would be horrible... but it would work.

Well I guess that's enough for now. It's 10:30 AM and I need to get to sleep!

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You´re a texture artist, among other thing, right NIGHTMARE?
Did you realize how different will be texturing for the New Doom?

Instead of adding bevels, scratches, and grainy looks to each texture, those things will be drawn on a separated pic, 8-bit grayscale, probably 2x bigger. Otherwise the bumpmap will not work.

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deadnail said:

Some great ideas there, thanks. Uzi's are indeed too often linked to gangsters and the like, but the game Syndicate and it's sequel Syndicate Wars used them in a dystopian type setting and it worked pretty well. I've seem them in other settings in several other occassions too.

I'm also thinking about including an occult element to the story too, by making it so that the hellspawn were summoned by a doomsday cult of some kind.

One of my flat mates has a boyfriend who's into pagan magic, and he's explained to me about basic magic stuff:

Magic is either left and right handed, left handed being when the spell will primarily benefit you and right handed being when it will primarily benefit someone else.

Each person's power is based on the four elements (although there's also a fifth, spirit)

There are different schools of magic, e.g. hydromancy, necromany, dracomany, oneiromancy, etc

There are different types of spells, such as invocation, evocation, conjuring and summoning.

This means that it will at least LOOK like I know what I'm talking about :)

Another idea I've had is that the military come along half way through (and of course get wiped out). This opens up the opportunity for some more fancy weaponry, although I don't think that things like grenade launchers or rocket launchers really fit into the type of gameplay I want (i.e. close quarters combat orientated).

Both the cult members and the dead military guys will depend on whether I can get someone to model a few characters (come to think of it, so will the dead civilians).

Anyway, I've had some more ideas of my own too, so here's how the weapon line-up is now:

1) Knife (SF M9) (general stabbing), crowbar (for prying open loose bars or whatever and bashing enemies over the head) fire axe (for smashing down wooden doors and stuff, and chopping enemies into pieces)

2) Pistol (H&K mk23) (suppressor and laser aiming module as power-ups), Revolver (Colt Python .357 Magnum)

3) Shotgun (Benelli M3 Super 90)

4) Machine gun (FN P90) (again with the various custom items as power-ups)

5) Molotov cocktails (for those rare occassions when there's actually a reasonable gap between you and the enemy), flares (used to distract enemies)

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deadnail said:

Don't forget the Zaybo z86^4 H series rifle! And the Degolah i4 7 series with the acid tipped armour piercing explosive caesium homing bullets!

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Guest Hopeless

ID can create all sorts of weapons as they like. there are a couple that must be back in the next doom.

1. Chainsaw: c'mon! It was so fun to cut that cacodemon to shreds!
2. Shotgun: there is no DooM without a shotgun. It's that simple.
3. Rocket launcher: this is a tradition in FPS. Just make it like it was in doom. Don't make it a "get it and you don't need anything else". Make it useful just sometimes.
4. BFG. Bring it back! They screwed it with quake 3. Bring back, and make is kick ass! We must have a weapon to rely upon! Oh, and make it fire and forget. Shoot it and run!

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NiGHTMARE said:

Going with the M9? I like the Special Forces one, it's the only with with saw teeth on it. Fire ax too? Yeah, just kinda convenient isn't it?

H&K pistol? Glad to be of assistance. Just going to use the same revolver as Half-Life, well, you know how it works. :)

The M3S90 is a combat oriented shotgun, you could have powerups such as flashlights on it as well if you wanted. For those totally dark fragfests, where you have to aim at beams of light, sources of laser sights, or spin fast enough to catch all of the demons coming after you.

You dig the FN P90's style, huh? Well, go through securityarms.com and check out all of their machineguns too will ya? I'd hate to feel like I'm imposing my opinions on you...

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Ok meatball, here's it goes:

All weapons are of the high-tech genre. Molotov Cocktails are replaced by thermite grenades. Uzis replaced by high-tech submachineguns like the one on Q2 (well, its as small as a submachinegun but uses full-sized rifle rounds).

Revolvers are completly useless in combat. Even the civilians would probably have some kind of .45cal double-barreled semi-auto pistol (probably with 50 shots in each clip too).

Shotguns may get replaced by something else. I hope not because the spread effect is genuine and should be preserved (if not in shotgun form, then in something like the flak cannon from Unreal).

Im getting tired of doing this for every newbie that come along:

Number key:
#1 - Fist, Melee weapon, Enhanced Melee weapon.
#2 - Pistol, (dbl barrel) Pistol, Heavy Pistol (uses rifle ammo).
#3 - Submachinegun, Assault Rifle, Heavy Chaingun.
#4 - Combat Shotgun, Double Shotgun, Assault Cannon.
#5 - Recoilless Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Mini-Missile Launcher.
#6 - Pin Rifle, Missile Accelerator, Rail-Gun.
#7 - Blaster Pistol, Blaster Rifle, Mega Blaster.
#8 - Plasma Rifle, Plasma Cannon, Bfg13k
#9 - Grenades, Grappling Hook, other odds and ends.

Set #1: "Melee"
Melee wepaon or weapons used withing a short distance. Fist is naturally the basic-basic set here, but you should probably be able to pick up things such as pipes/axes/other to use instead. Enhanced Melee weapons would probably include something like the chaingun or some other weapon specificially designed for melee combat (like a sword or a "chain-sword").

Set #2: "Handguns"
Handgun/Personal ranged weapons.
The stanadrd pistol (no current models like glock or desert eagle please, something more futuristic). A Double-Barreled version of the pistol that fires the two barrels offset to one-another (fires twice as fast & somewhat automatic). And another pistol that can use the high-powered rifle ammo instead of the standard bullets.

Set #3: "Rifles"
Submachinegun uses standard bullets, fires really fast but has low accuracy. Assualt Rifle is a compact machinegun sorta like Q2's, uses rifle ammo and has strong kickback (best fired in 2-3 shot bursts). Heavy Chaingun is like an M-60 on steroids, shoots about 2x as fast as the Assualt Rifle and doesn't have the accuracy problem - It sure is a pain to turn around with it because it is big (it does not have roatary barrels).

Set #4: "Shotguns"
Combat Shotgun is something like Q2's shotgun but with a longer barrel. Double Shotgun is like two combat shotguns weilded together (but not actually, it was designed like this), has heavy recoil. Assault Cannon is like a Heavy Chaingun, but it fires shotgun shells instead - aiming will kick up from heavy recoil (2-3 shot bursts are effective).

Set #5: "Explosives"
Recoilless Rifle is a single shot rocket launcher that actually looks alot like Doom's rocket launcher. Grenade Launcher is ditto like Q2's. Mini-Missile Launcher fires missiles in a semi-automatic firing fasion (belt-fed).

Set #6: "Enhanced Versions"
Pin-Rifle shoots like an assault rifle but with half the fire rate and three times the damage per shot. Missile Accelerator acts like a mini-missile launcher, but the missiles reach the target 4x as fast as before (projectile speed x4). Rail-Gun acts like the Heavy Chaingun but does twice as much damage and has the abiltity to auto-target enemies (can lock onto a target and move the sight to fire at it, can be annoying).

Set #7: "Blasters"
Blaster Pistol acts in most respects like Quake2's Blaster pistol, but uses 1 cell per shot. Blaster Rifle acts like Blaster Pistol but with greater fire rate and a small radius explosion on impact. The Mega Blaster fires way slower than the blaster rifle, but does 8x the damage and has a moderate splash damage effect (it's like a rocket but twice as powerful and twice as big of an explosion).

Set #8: "Plasma Weapons"
Plasma Rifle is like doom's plasma rifle, but looks cleaner, more mass-produced, and has a secondary fire that shoots a beam (damage = 3 pulses). Plasma Cannon is the bigger brother to the plasma rifle, does about 1/3 damage of the mega blaster and 1/3 the splash damage but has a high fire rate.

BFG13k, has several modes. Ball, Ball & spray, Big ball + explosion & spray. Alt fire = rapid fire like plasma rifle or a beam attack resembling Q2's railgun attack.

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"Ok 'meatball' here's it goes?"

Damn Galahad you usually speak better English than that! It's also not a newbie, it's NiGHTMARE. We're not discussing Doom 3, we're discussin' a MOD for Doom 3. =)

The weapon set for this MOD is current time weaponry with a touch of film noir to it. That's why magnum revolvers fit but 'double barrelled .45 semi-automatic pistols with 50 round magazines' don't.

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