Doom 3 Rocket Launcher Discussion (Tetzlaff!)

[deadnail]

It has been said that the official word is that there will be no rocket launcher. However, I feel that's a misinterpreted comment, iD was talking about Quest at the time (D3 was not specifically named).

Now then, just a little background for people just popping into this one, the rocket launchers in iD's games PISS ME OFF. Problem one, with the exception of Q2 none of them get reloaded. Problem two, the rockets travel unrealistically slow. Problem three, the blast radius is roughly 1/3 of what it should really be. Problem four, how the FUCK do you carry 50 of those bigass rockets???

My solution? It's right friggin' here:
http://www.planetdreamcast.com/residentevil/sect/games/re3/weapons/index2.htm

Look for the M.Thrower weapon. That's a much more ideal weapon given the in-game mechanics the rocket launcher needs to keep for deathmatch purposes.

Problem 1 solution, the rockets are half the width of a pop can and a little longer and thus fit 5 to a clip. The reloads can be fast and painless.

Problem 2 solution, well this is sort of a video game factor that can't really change without making the weapon overpowered. It makes more sense with smaller rockets though as they won't need to keep that level of momentum to maintain height.

Problem 3 solution, the rockets are a more fitting size so the explosion radius can remain the same.

Problem 4 solution, you can stuff the clips into your backpack. I would be happier if you were limited to 25 tops but hey, it's a video game. This would force you to use them and not horde your cache for a later use (and finish the game with a full load of them, waiting for a good use but none came up and thus wasted the fun).

Given the more modern design of this weapon a good alt-fire would be the ability to steer the missle live (just give it a DAMN slow turning speed to keep things fair). Either that or the ability to piss off 5 as fast as possible to make a nice firey cluster of death.

If multiple ammunition is implemented I could see 2 additional types feasible. Incindiary rounds with double sized blast radii (with much less damage if caught in it but set everything on fire) or 'hunter' rounds that correct themselves in the air slightly and curve towards the nearest moving target.

So, anyone agree?
Disagree?

Think this was WAY the hell too much to say about a single damn in-game weapon?

[Zaldron]

*sigh*

My second post on this forum was a locked one saying "The no rocket launcher thing was about Quest".

I agree, rockets should be fast, small and powerful. The D3 RL could have a rotating drum like SoF that is recharged after 4 (or whatever you want) shots. You should be limited to 20, 15. In fact, the game should give the player little room for ammo, besides few equipment distributed along the maps. That way it forces you to use wisely your weapons, to not hold 34636 plasma cells to crush the bosses with the BFG. Besides, it adds a big scary factor...

[deadnail]

Seeing as how we usually agree anyway, you'll probably love this site :)

http://members.tripod.com/~anti_titanic/

BTW, DAMN RIGHT about limited ammo making shit scarier. Blood was WAY more intense than Quake 2.

[Zaldron]

You´re damn right, I didn´t even bother to look at that movie...
Yep, I didn´t fall to the hype-machine, that movie never went trought my eyes in any of it´s versions...

The only problem with low ammo single players campaigns is that many times you fall into the melee category. How many times did you bashed Headcrabs in HL with your crowbar because you didn´t wanted to waste ammo. I hope that DooM3 don´t comes with any enemy smaller than a Lost Soul.

[deadnail]

Yeah, you ended up with that pitchfork a lot in Blood... some enemies were fine against it, but you go against a Cultist with it and yuza gonna get FUCKED UP.

In Half-Life? Never. I always had enough 9mm ammo for my Glock to pick them off. Just don't get too happy with the MP5A5 and it's not a problem.

[Zaldron]

Haha, those Cultists...
You were peacefully walking trough a corridor with 150% life and suddenly :

MORAMAC SU MARE!!!! MORAMAC IN SPERIBGOT !!! CONYA SU MARE!!!

<Big red flash>

Mmh, that language is pretty much spanish.
If you get them on fire, sometimes they scream in perfect spanish "ME QUEMO!!".

But going back to the melee weapon, do you remember the time we were discussing this? I mean, it´s pretty dumb that a 25th, 26th century soldier don´t possess any melee weapon. Not even a crappy knife.

[deadnail]

Actually, the Cultist language is a combination of Spanish, Latin, and Sanskrit. I thought it was just Spanish at first too, 'cuz you know I like to shoot cans.

MexiCANS, PortueriCANS, ... um, Dexter, that was a joke. =P

When they yell CRUDUX CRUO! that means 'Fresh Blood'. Also, there seems to be an unused weird cultist saying that sounds something like ...miramox... and an unused Caleb voice of, "Miramox this... asshole."

The Blood games definitely have a unique charm when your character giggles like a schoolgirl when bloody giblets are bouncing off of the rim of your hat.

I can't picture an American soldier without his M9 knife (doubles as a bayonet).

[Zaldron]

I love the Caleb outfit and attitude. I always found a unique charm on games that haves as first character anti-heroes or plain evil.

Speaking of Blood 2, it had a very cool MP feature, the taunt. Instead of a shitty "no-one-evers-get-aware" animation, each character used randomly one of their phrases.

[deadnail]

Yeah, Caleb's the perfect little evil bastard.

Blood 2 was a pretty good deathmatch. I remember when I suicided with the Napalm Launcher and Caleb cracked out, "I'm kickin' my own ass!"

The taunts were okay, but the Jamaican chick's 'yo momma' jokes were just outright insulting to be subjected to. Man, if I were black that kinda shit would piss me off. Oh well, Blood was made by a black dude anyway... :P

[Zaldron]

Of all the FPS, I enjoy the most Blood on MP. There´s something unique when running to your enemy with the spraycan on fire. I call it the Fireworks! technique. Yeah, you get killed yourself, but it´s a lot of fun to see from the dead camera your friend running away screaming "It burns!It burns! AhahahHA! ME QUEMO!!!" bursting into flames.

[deadnail]

Yeah, I deathmatched the most in Duke3D, then Doom, then Blood, and I can say without fear of contradiction that Blood is certainly the most entertaining deathmatch experience ever.

My personal favorite moments include but are not limited to:
1) Feeling your heart shoot out of your asshole when you hear 'CLICK!'
2) Nailing a perfect facial [point blank sawed-off]
3) The Mortal Kombat style executions (YEAH!)
4) Using the orb and seeing yourself
5) This one is rare but it's a FUCKING GEM. In that green bb level that's included with the game there's a bigassed hedgemaze and a catwalk like ladder. Well, I set a proximity bomb down below the catwalk then climbed up and ran across. I heard a click and figured myself for dead... but my enemy walked across it! To my amazement the sonofabitch just got a full armor and a lifeseed so he lived! He flew up right in my face and I nailed him right in the head with both barrels of my sawed-off. Getting a facial on momentum... yeah, gotta love it. Rare but beautiful.
6) Last but not least, chasing someone with akimbo tommy guns... heheheheh. It's just so damned satisfying! :)

I WANT A FRIGGIN' SOURCE PORT! WAA! WAA! NOW! Heheh.

[Zaldron]

Mmh, the best moments I recall are :

# Remember that level that´s full of powder barrels? There´s a secret place one floor higher, where remote detonators respawn. My friends never spotted that place, so I tripwired the level with 50 or so detonators (include those barrels!!). When I activated my masterpiece, the LAN got a little lagged for half a sec, and then everyone was dead.

# Camping (yeah I know it sucks, Haha) with akimbo napalm launchers.

# The sawed-off shotgun. Nuff´ said...

# Running with 200 life and no ammo, but with a vengeance... the Life Leech. People get psyched when they see 23532 projectiles.

# (A Duke3D one too!) Blasting their Napalm rocket/RPG in front of their face.

# The flaregun... the best crappy long-distance weapon ever.

# The level with the 2 fortress, the ones with guns and traps. Way ahead of their time if you think about TFC and similar.


And the best experience I´ve ever had with Blood is not a MP one, but a SP :

E1M3 "The Phantom Express"

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Remember the brown stone level? There's an almost impossible jump to a middle little room. It's well blocked off and contains a lot of proximities... in fact, by the time you throw all five they're already respawning! First time I got there I hung out for a while and threw bombs EVERYWHERE. I'd hear a distant explosion every now and again and grin.

How could I forget this?! Getting a facial with akimbo sawed-offs! FOUR SHOTGUN SHELLS RIGHT DOWN YOUR ENEMY'S THROAT!

Yeah, that damn Life Leech was intimidating as hell, 'specially when you got 3 or 4 guys spraying the shit everywhere!

My fave Duke3D standby is getting 200 health and armor and unloading the RPG point blank. You will live. They will die. Simple math.

I like Duke's Glock 21 .45 better than the flaregun. Better aiming.

I hated that damn fortress level. It drove me right up the damn wall.

The Phantom Express *REALLY* impressed me when I got the demo for the first time. I was well into Quake when I fired that up and it just totally blew me out of the water! It was so cool... shooting out the windows on the train and hearing the wind roar in. :)

That kill-fest in the Caboose with the Akimbo was awesome as hell too.

However, I'd have to say that my favorite level is the Dark Carnival. God I've had so much fun on that level. I remember turning on infinite ammo, hanging out by that window and throwing out like seventy bombs all over those waiting zombies. When I set them off the game paused for like, four damn seconds to calculate the explosion! When it was over an organ from the zombie LANDED IN THE DAMN WINDOW SILL! =)

The snow episode kicks major ass, but the secret level is too hard.

The city levels are really hardcore. "I'm going to paint the town red."

The last set of levels were nigh impossible... it took me FOREVER to beat them! I finally made it to Tcherny and took his ass out in UNDER TWO SECONDS. Then the 1.11 patch came along and it now takes me about five seconds to do him in. Suddenly I have to worry about him returning fire.

The first hedgemaze level (the one the first demo loops with) is also memorable as hell. The secret level is a little too easy to get to, though...

[Tetzlaff]

Damn time-lag, I take a look at the forum at morning and the new topic is already discussed :)

First of all, yes, it is a video game, and features like slow moving rockets have strong gameplay reasons, and this is defenitely more important then realism. But some features, like a smaller rocket size, would do it in both categories, so it could be nice to have smaller rockets as you said, but with the usual splash damage and the usual speed, and it should also be possible to hold a maximum of 50 rockets (and I really don´t care where the spacemarine puts all the stuff in. It even wouldn´t bother me if he would carry no backpack).

Thanks for the link to the Mine Thrower, as the look is alwasy very important for me. I think the back part of the weapon, the stock or butt or how it´s called and the clip etc., looks quite good, but for the front part I would prefer a round barrel and it could also be a bit longer (better guide for the rockets also, I think?) Otherwise it would look to similar to the grenade launcher!
For small size rocket launchers I like the look of parts of the Bazooka in Resident Evil1. So front part: Bazooka, back part: RE3 Mine Thrower, and the whole made in a dirty futuristic, powerful looking design, that would be great! :)

[Guest Dark_Fox]

Ut's Redeemer is a F***ing rocket launcher..
Only menly men wear kelts..

[Lord FlatHead]

deadnail said:

Seeing as how we usually agree anyway, you'll probably love this site :)

http://members.tripod.com/~anti_titanic/

BTW, DAMN RIGHT about limited ammo making shit scarier. Blood was WAY more intense than Quake 2.

"I live again !" -- Caleb

[Zaldron]

Another day, another killed, another reason, for me to live...

Son of a Bitch must pay!

I want JoJo! I want JoJo! JoJo! JoJo! JOJO!

Mmh, this looks so...Unreal.

Yep, Im the guy with the gun.

[wasted]

Dark_Fox said:

Ut's Redeemer is a F***ing rocket launcher..
Only menly men wear kelts..

About your signature: nobody fears the Foxes. Even Dark ones, hehehehe...

[wasted]

Yeah...

RL reloding - must be.

RL rockets - must be smaller. Besides i already posted message abour player constitusion option in Doom3: if you are big and heavy marine get all those 50 rockets; if you are scout one you can hold only 20, heh...

RL rocket speed - let it be faster (but not like Quake ones...)

RL blast - let it be the same, no need to reconstruct the game process...

[Guest Dark_Fox]

wasted said:

About your signature: nobody fears the Foxes. Even Dark ones, hehehehe...

What?!

[Guest DaveNHB]

I agree. I never liked the quake RL. Personally, I like the Half-life rocket launcher, its the most realistic one out there, and very well balanced by its slow reloading time. If people want a faster launcher rocket, then perhaps a new weapon (like the devastator in Duke3D). Personally, I don't like RL's because everybody starts to hoard them and don't use any other weapons. I Like bullet weapons more ala shotgun or chaingun.

[Tetzlaff]

I hate the Halflife rocket launcher. It´s average realistic design is just ugly, but ok, it nevertheless looked good in HL because the whole setting was mostly our days realism with a touch of SciFi. But very well balanced? Are you kidding! It made this rocketlauncher almost useless! I only used it to take down the helicopter, and then never again.
Those pipe-like over-the -shoulder rocketlaunchers look boring realistic and cartoonish at the same time (beacause cartoon rocketlaunchers always look like that), so that´s just worst in my opinion.

[Tetzlaff]

wasted said:

Yeah...

RL reloding - must be.

RL rockets - must be smaller. Besides i already posted message abour player constitusion option in Doom3: if you are big and heavy marine get all those 50 rockets; if you are scout one you can hold only 20, heh...

RL rocket speed - let it be faster (but not like Quake ones...)

RL blast - let it be the same, no need to reconstruct the game process...

You know that the idea of the 3 player classes, heavy grunt, medium sarge, light scout, was planned for Q3A (and included in the Q3alpha), but they left it out for good reasons. You would like to see this feature in single payer or mutliplayer?

[Guest DaveNHB]

Tetzlaff said:

I hate the Halflife rocket launcher. It´s average realistic design is just ugly, but ok, it nevertheless looked good in HL because the whole setting was mostly our days realism with a touch of SciFi. But very well balanced? Are you kidding! It made this rocketlauncher almost useless! I only used it to take down the helicopter, and then never again.
Those pipe-like over-the -shoulder rocketlaunchers look boring realistic and cartoonish at the same time (beacause cartoon rocketlaunchers always look like that), so that´s just worst in my opinion.

People in real life don't use rocket launchers to kill a single person. It would be nearly impossible. If you play in team games like CTF and stuff it comes in handy. But your right, that rocket launcher was a little too slow for gaming sake and not purdy. They could give it a techno makeover and have it shoot a little faster. But I like the idea of a slow, powerful, rocket launcher.

[Espi]

deadnail said:

I have blood 2, but it seems Blood is more fun? Maybe I should buy it.

[Guest Meebes]

Has anyone actually read the 'Doom' series of books? (well if you haven't don't, only the first one or two is even remotely like Doom and they otherwise aren't all that good, you just keep turning the pages because it's, well, you know - it's DOOM!)

The rockets were like the size of a D battery but just as powerful (sometimes even more so). With the plastic explosives and stuff they'll have in the future, that's the most feasible to say the least. It should be faster, but I think the explosion should be directional so it won't matter as much in DM that it's fast (what was the railgun eh? fast!) because it'll be more important that you hit them or something in front of them, instead of trying to hit the walls around them and all.

But with battery-sized rockets it could double as a grenade launcher, mine dropper, you name it.

[sirgalahadwizar]

Most of the explosion of a rocket would probably be fragmentation anyways. The explosion model they had for Q3 looked like a big lollipop or some kind of magical blast from a tekken game. I want to see a brief flash and then a whole bunch of smoke - even particle effects like Q2's bullet impacts would do (but on a much grander scale).

Has anyone considered the possiblity of explosions hitting a person around a corner?

Truely large explosions will hurt you even if you duck behind some pillar or alcove.