Problem with new Doom graphics

[Necromancer]

I don't know about you guys, but from what I've seen of the Macworld 2000 footage, this new Doom looks like it's gonna have to run with the GeForce 3 video cards. This fact may not make the game a big hit, since people will have to buy a $600 video card just to play it. Something to consider here . . .

[Zaldron]

June 2002 is the minimum release date. More than one year from now, by then there will be GeForce4s available. Never underestimate the power of the tech curve.

UPDATE :

I´ll talk a little about fps. Remember when games ran at 30 fps?
You know what that meant? That those games made full use of the CPU and the video card. Today gamers are spoiled, wanting 120 fps as a minimum, who´s to blame? :

Q3A and UT.

Those games were made for speed, and now everyone wants incredibly smooth framerates in their games. Did you complaint when DooM 1&2 spitted 25 frames back when Windows was an OPTION?

JC´s saving a lot of CPU calculation time to make the engine flexible in a lot of new ways. This will add tremendously to the gameplay. The GeForce3 will probably spit 50-60 fps at 800x600 with all the toys, and the GeF2 25 fps with some detail reduced. That means were catching the tech curve again, making games that actually USE your $1500 computer.

[Lord FlatHead]

Speaking about release dates, I just hope id don't want to act smart and release it exactly 10 years after the first game... 10th December 2003 :)

[deadnail]

Pessimist.

Shut up and play Parasite Eve 2.

[Necromancer]

Zaldron said:

June 2002 is the minimum release date. More than one year from now, by then there will be GeForce4s available. Never underestimate the power of the tech curve.

UPDATE :

I´ll talk a little about fps. Remember when games ran at 30 fps?
You know what that meant? That those games made full use of the CPU and the video card. Today gamers are spoiled, wanting 120 fps as a minimum, who´s to blame? :

Q3A and UT.

Those games were made for speed, and now everyone wants incredibly smooth framerates in their games. Did you complaint when DooM 1&2 spitted 25 frames back when Windows was an OPTION?

JC´s saving a lot of CPU calculation time to make the engine flexible in a lot of new ways. This will add tremendously to the gameplay. The GeForce3 will probably spit 50-60 fps at 800x600 with all the toys, and the GeF2 25 fps with some detail reduced. That means were catching the tech curve again, making games that actually USE your $1500 computer.

I think some of those gamers want too much. Why the hell would anyone want 120 fps when our eyes cannot differentiate between 30 and 40 fps?! 35 is more than acceptable. Shit, I'm happy to get 28 fps with Unreal on my system as it is. I think with the demand for speed and incredible graphics, the gameplay aspect got very well buried. I mean, I hated Q2 because it had awful gameplay value! I played it once and never wanted to play it again. Doom, on the other hand, I still find fun and I've played all of the Doom games countless times. I'm not particularly fond of Q3A either as it needs ridiculous specs just to run it, making trying to play on an old system unenjoyable. At least Unreal has a good plot to make the gameplay interesting enough for replays and add-ons. Oh, well, maybe I'll upgrade for this one . . .

By the way, I'm new here, so please don't flame me for making asinine remarks or just something stupid that has been covered, I still haven't read all the news surrounding what's happening here.

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[doomsick]

i think that by the time doom 3 comes out the price of the geforce 3 will have come down considerably

[Lord FlatHead]

deadnail said:

Pessimist.

Shut up and play Parasite Eve 2.

What's up with that 'Parasite Eve' fetish ? Would you mind explaining why you think this game is so good ? I haven't played it myself.

[Linguica]

deadnail said:

Pessimist.

Shut up and play Parasite Eve 2.

Is that the one with the lesbians?

(What a great game when it's described as "the one with the lesbians"...)

[Guest dafro]

Necromancer said:

I think some of those gamers want too much. Why the hell would anyone want 120 fps when our eyes cannot differentiate between 30 and 40 fps?! 35 is more than acceptable. Shit, I'm happy to get 28 fp

Can't remember the details (i'm not a huge graphics techie...code is more my thing), but having more than 30fps does improve visual smoothness, even though the human eye can only compute 30.

Well, besides the obvious fact that while running down a small tunnel by yourself may produce 120fps but try cramming a room full of 30 hell knights like that one level in doom2. fps is gonna spike based on usage.

[Guest dafro]

Zaldron said:

June 2002 is the minimum release date. More than one year from now, by then there will be GeForce4s available. Never underestimate the power of the tech curve. UPDATE :I´ll talk a little abou

Pushing the technology forward is a plus no matter what type of game you are developing...fast paced or not.

[deadnail]

dafro said:

Can't remember the details (i'm not a huge graphics techie...code is more my thing), but having more than 30fps does improve visual smoothness, even though the human eye can only compute 30.

Well, besides the obvious fact that while running down a small tunnel by yourself may produce 120fps but try cramming a room full of 30 hell knights like that one level in doom2. fps is gonna spike based on usage.

I can tell the dif between 60 and 90 frames a second. Easy as pie on Duke3D.

Oh and Linguica... no, it's not, you smartass. :P

[Amanichen]

dafro said:

Can't remember the details (i'm not a huge graphics techie...code is more my thing), but having more than 30fps does improve visual smoothness, even though the human eye can only compute 30.

Well, besides the obvious fact that while running down a small tunnel by yourself may produce 120fps but try cramming a room full of 30 hell knights like that one level in doom2. fps is gonna spike based on usage.

Well Actually...

hehe...i'm not gonna say u're wrong or anything..

but most Movies that you see in a movie theater only run at slightly over 10fps. The human eye can't tell the diff.

[deadnail]

You know why you can't tell the diff in a theater? Because each frame is blurred to the next. Look at them on your PC and see the diff.

[Psyonisis]

amanichen said:

Well Actually...

hehe...i'm not gonna say u're wrong or anything..

but most Movies that you see in a movie theater only run at slightly over 10fps. The human eye can't tell the diff.

Uhm no.
The human eye sees about 14-16 fps. People calculated that if you watch things about double that framerate your eyes will percieve motion.

Movies are 24 fps almost always
TV is 30 fps

[DoOmEr4LiFe]

Linguica said:

Is that the one with the lesbians?

(What a great game when it's described as "the one with the lesbians"...)

thats fear effect 2....i think

[Guest micpp]

amanichen said:

Well Actually...

hehe...i'm not gonna say u're wrong or anything..

but most Movies that you see in a movie theater only run at slightly over 10fps. The human eye can't tell the diff.

Erm... no. Movies run at either 25 or 30 fps, can't remember which.

[Guest tropikal]

dafro said:

Can't remember the details (i'm not a huge graphics techie...code is more my thing), but having more than 30fps does improve visual smoothness, even though the human eye can only compute 30.

Well, besides the obvious fact that while running down a small tunnel by yourself may produce 120fps but try cramming a room full of 30 hell knights like that one level in doom2. fps is gonna spike based on usage.

this is a topic i happen to know a lot about. i've played q3 competatively for about a year, and until about a month ago when a mod was released, the physics of your player were determined by how many fps you get. a player getting 100 fps in timedemo fps test could not make the same distance jumps as players who could play the game with a consistent 125 fps. i have to take an extra 5 to 10 seconds to run around to the jumppad to get a rail on dm6 whereas a player with a superior computer could make a jump and get the railgun in 1 second. that is THE reason for wanting more fps than 100 in quake3, trust me ive been to almost all of the major cpl events over the past year, and i've done a lot of lanning and net playing with the winners of those tournaments. highly competative players still want to have that solid 125 fps even though the physics issue has been solved because it makes it easier to aim. they set their mouse to input at 200 times a second, and when paired with 125 fps, they can make more fine tune adjustments in the amount of time, plus the player they are shooting at is moving much smoother. if you want to do an experiment to see how your mouse input rate and fps works together then try this:
you need quake1 or quake2
a 3d video card
a mouse rate changing program such as mouseware, or ps2rate
(http://www.bluesnews.com/mouse.shtml)
set your ps2 rate to 40
load quake (or q2) in software mode and set your resolution high enough that you get less than 35 fps. say you're getting 35 fps, should be pretty smooth right? wrong, but thats not the point. move your mouse around and you will not notice any jogginess.
now quit out and restart quake in opengl or 3dfx or whatever.
set your resolution to 640x480 so that you get an avg framerate above 50. with the ps2 rate still at 40, and the console variable m_filter at 0 you will notice significant mouselag when you pan the mouse. 50 fps is smooth right? not with mouselag. now set m_filter to 1 in the console. your mouselag is dramatically decreased. quit back out of the game and set ps2rate to 200 inputs a second. restart quake with 3d acceleration and pan your mouse around. it doesn't matter if m_filter is 0 or 1, that 50 fps should feel pretty smooth. the problem now is that enemies only move at 50 fps, and 150 of that 200 mouse inputs a second are going to waste. competative players can notice these subtle differences, so try to imagine how they will most definetaly prefer solid 125 fps and 200 mouse inputs a second. now bandwidth/network code...