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Screw FSAA, gimme HRAA! (+X-Box Info)

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There's no argument WHATSOEVER that the FSAA on the Voodoo 4/5 simply looks better than the FSAA on a GeForce 2. Of course it takes a bigger performance hit and the Voodoo 4/5 isn't exactly a speed demon to begin with anyway. Here's an article I just found on planetxbox.com detailing the nVidia processor.

Quote:
"Ever play Ridge Racer V for the Playstation 2? Then you probably noticed the effects of aliasing, also known as "jaggies". In the past the effects of "jaggies" on the eye could be lessened by increasing the resolution on ones PC but this is not feasible with console gaming where users are limited to their television's lower resolution. To combat the effect of "jaggies" NVIDIA has instituted what they call high-resolution antialiasing (HRAA), which is really an improved form of antialiasing. HRAA ditches the method of antialiasing known as "supersampling" (which reduced performance) and takes up multisampling, an improved method of sampling out "jaggies" all the while keeping performance up to par. Multisampling is quite complex and can only be achieved using the latest in GPU technology. How does it work? Multisampling works by making the GPU calculate multiple samples in the final pixel color. In this way extra pixels are created and can be easily absorbed by the GPUs wider data paths without occuring a heavy performance hit. Can you imagine how much better Gran Turismo 3 might look if it look advantage of this technology?"

Considering the X-Box is getting a GPU that's a bit stronger than the GF3 (maybe even a whole generation stronger!) can you imagine how kickass these games are going to look on your TV (X-Box also has full support for HDTV hi-res)?

I mean... HELL, look at this pic of a racing game based on GeForce 3 tech:
http://www.planetxbox.com/images/screenshots/ballistics/ballistics01.jpg

BTW, the X-Box will cost $380 to produce. At the street price of $300 Microsoft stands to lose $130 on each one sold while the retailer still makes $50 for themselves. Because of this, the X-Box will need to boom until 2006 until Microsoft begins making a decent return. Hey, the Playstation lasted this long... and I remember seeing them on sale for $275 when they first came out. =)

"But what good is it without games?" You ask?
Simple. It will have the games. Here's the official list of people signed on to make games for it:

Acclaim Entertainment, inc.
Activision, inc.
Aki Corp.
Alfa System Co., Ltd.
ALTAR interactive
Anchor inc.
Angel Studios, inc.
ARC SYSTEM WORKS CO., Ltd.
Argonaut Games plc
ARIKA CO., Ltd.
ARTDINK CORPORATION
ARTOON CO., Ltd.
Ask Co., Ltd.
ATLUS CO., Ltd.
Attention to Detail Ltd.
Awesome Developments Ltd.
bam! entertainment
BANDAI CO., Ltd.
Barking Dog Studios, Ltd.
Bethesda Softworks inc.
BioWare Corp.
Blue Byte Software, inc.
Blue Shift, inc.
BUNKASHA PUBLISHING CO., Ltd.
CAPCOM CO., Ltd.
Charybdis Limited
CLIMAX Ltd.
Conspiracy Entertainment Corporation
Core Design Ltd.
Crave Entertainment, inc.
Criterion Software Ltd.
Cryo
Crystal Dynamics inc.
DATAM POLYSTAR CO., Ltd.
Deep Red Games Ltd.
DigitalWare inc.
DMA Design Ltd.
DreamCatcher
DreamForge Intertainment, inc.
DWANGO Co., Ltd.
Dynamix
Edge of Reality, inc.
Eidos interactive Ltd
Empire Interactive
EON Digital Entertainment
Epic Games
Escape Factory, Ltd.
Fox Interactive
From Software , inc.
Funcom
Gameplay
Gathering of Developers
GENKI Co., Ltd.
Global A Entertainment, inc.
h.a.n.d. inc.
H.I.C. Co., Ltd.
Hasbro Interactive
Havas Interactive
HEADLOCK inc.
Heavy Iron Studios
Housemarque
HUDSON SOFT CO., Ltd.
Humongous Entertainment, inc.
id Software, inc.
I-Imagine Interactive
image corporation
Imagineer Co., Ltd.
Incredible Technologies, inc.
Infogrames
Interplay Entertainment Corp.
JALECO Ltd.
Kaboom Studios Limited
Kalisto Entertainment
KEMCO / Kotobuki System Co., Ltd.
Kodiak Interactive Software Studios
KOEI Co., Ltd.
KONAMI CORPORATION
KOOL KIZZ AMUSEMENT WORKS
Kuju Entertainment
Legend Entertainment Company
LightWeight Co., Ltd.
Lost Boys Interactive
Majesco, inc.
Mass Media, inc.
MAX-INTERNATIONAL inc.
MGM Interactive, a unit of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer inc.
Microids
Midas Interactive Entertainment
Midway Home Entertainment inc.
Monolith Productions, inc.
Monster Games, inc.
Mythos Games Ltd.
NAGI CORPORATION
NAMCO LIMITED
Nest Corporation
Neversoft Entertainment
Nihilistic Software, inc.
NIHON CREATE inc.
NovaLogic, inc.
OVER WORK'S inc.
Pacific Coast Power & Light Co.
PANTHER SOFTWARE, inc.
Papyrus
Paradigm Studios
Pipe Dream Interactive
Qube
R A C
Radical Entertainment
Rage
Raven Software
Red Storm Entertainment, inc.
Reflections Interactive
Ripcord Games, LLC
Riverhillsoft inc.
Rockstar Games
Saffire Corporation
SCi Entertainment Group PLC
SHOEISHA Co., Ltd.
Sierra
Silicon Dreams Studio Ltd.
Simon & Schuster Interactive
SKY.Co., Ltd.
SouthPeak Interactive
Spike Co., Ltd.
Starbreeze Studios
T&E SOFT, inc.
TAITO CORPORATION
TAKARA CO., Ltd.
Take-Two Interactive Software, inc.
TAKUYO KOUGYO CO., Ltd.
TDK mediactive, inc.
TECMO, Ltd.
TELENET JAPAN CO., Ltd.
Terminal Reality
The Codemasters Software Company Ltd.
The Collective, inc.
The LEGO Compay A/S
The Pitbull Syndicate
The Whole Experience, inc.
THQ
Titus
TopWare Interactive AG
Treasure, inc.
Ubi Soft Entertainment
Valve, LLC
Victor Interactive Software inc.
VIDEO SYSTEM Co., Ltd.
Virgin Interactive
VIS entertainment plc
Volition, inc.
Warthog PLC
XeNN inc.
YAGER Development
Yuki Enterprise inc.
Zono, inc.

That's right! id Software, Epic, Raven, Valve and even Monolith are involved on this thing and have agreed to develop games for it. Now you should care, heheh.

Hey, even for me there's the other big-names like Capcom, Konami, Treasure, and Taito. No Square yet... but we have about five to seven months before it hits so who knows? =)


Just for reference:
Playstation has 1 meg of video memory and 2 megs of ram
Playstation 2 has 4 megs of video memory and 32 megs of ram
Dreamcast has 8 megs of video memory and 16 megs of ram

The X-Box has 64 megs of dynamic ddr ram. The whole thing is on one board so, depending on the game (or even level), the graphics might get 32 and the game might get 32. Or the graphics might get 48 and the game might get 16. Everything is hard-wired together so this approach seems a lot more logical to me anyway. The FSB is blazing fucking fast anyway so the transfers shouldn't make a difference, and on top of this the damn X-Box comes with a 6 gig hard drive.

Relax, the X-Box does NOT have an OS, everything is run off of the BIOS like every other console. The harddrive functions as a memory card (if needs be, although memory card support is there) and also a temporary file directory. Levels, sound effects, frequently used textures that need to be swapped out, the hard drive gives developers a lot of flexibility that they've never had before.

Of course, it has EVERY feature that the GeForce 3 and DirectX8 have. Yes, a console with support for 8:1 compressed textures up to 4096 by 4096 @ 32 bit color. Yes, a console with an optimized Pentium III 733.

Think about this: Since the X-Box is getting a one-up chip on the GeForce 3... what would the next major feature be? ...tile based rendering (drool)? Jesus, what kind of framerate will the X-Box get at 800 by 600 with that??? =) It's something to think about.

Oh, and here's something else. It has a V-Chip of sorts. Parents can turn it on, enter the configuration (Hell, the Dreamcast and even a Saturn have one; usually memory card functions and a clock) and set a password... to play an M-Rated game the password is needed. This is just a huge PR thing and it keeps 8 year olds from playing Mortal Kombat (like that's actually a bad thing anyway). It probably won't affect us at all so don't fret about it. What this does mean is that developers now have nothing to worry about and can put whatever the fuck they want into a game because it WILL be monitored and the kid risk is practically gone. =)

Finally, Duke saying the f-word without it being censored. That would suit his games nicely. They bleeped him about a dozen times in his latest N64 rampage. "What the f!EEE!k is going on?!"


Oh, and the X-Box will have support for CD-R discs. Sounds like a grand opportunity for someone to port zDoom to it.



I'm curious, does anyone else have another take on this?

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I agree, X-box is looking very impressive. As long as I have a shiny beige miracle box on my desk I'm not thinking about getting one, though I expect the graphics to be TONS better than Playstation two or Nintendo's new console.

To get an idea how the graphics will look, take a look at www.wxp3d.com. They're developing something called the 'Experience Engine', and have a might cool tech demo of it. It handles both tiny details and large outdoor areas with ease, and it's going to be used for a few X-Box games soon.

By the way, in His QuakeCon 2000 speech John Carmack said an X-Box port of Doom 3 is a "no-brainer" because of its generous memory and Nvidia processor. The consoles are finally catching up with the PC (well, sorta).

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I agree, the Xbox has interesting potential. However, I am going to hold off for a while on getting it until it proves itself. I am going to spend my money on a GameCube first, and later an Xbox. Mainly, because I am looking forward to Nintendo's games more (and I don't have room on my entertainment center to put that behemoth). If Xbox has killer apps I cannot get on my PC or GameCube, then I will get it, otherwise, if I can play the same games on my PC or GC, then Xbox loses.

I already have a DVD player, Doom is going to be on PC, as well as Halo (and yes I know it will be later than Xbox, but I can wait). NFL2K2 is most likely going to be on GC as well as Xbox. Zelda rocks! 1080 snowboarding rocks! Waverace rocks! And there is no way I can pass up Metroid. I have waited years for a new installment of that game. Namco is fully supporting GC, so we will probably see TTT, Ridge Racer and Soul Calibur's sequel. Capcom is supporting it, which means Castlevania (I think Capcom made that), MegaMan (Woohoo!) and who knows what else. Combine that with Nintendo's first and second party games, and it will definitely be sitting in my living room come October.

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And what exactly has this got to do with Doom 3 other than iD signing to make games for the X-Box? This belongs in the General forum.


On a side note, I hope the new Doom will have HRAA. That would be beyond amazing.
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64 MB, mmh, I don´t see a future here. Today PC games are hitting the 64 MB minimum limit, while they recommend 96 to 128 MB for optimal results. I can´t believe that while having a NV25, they´ll need to cut down the textures in order to make the framebuffer fit in the Xbox.

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Charon said:

I too love Zelda and Metroid.

Castlevania is a Konami game, bastard! You just invented a new sin. I can't wait to see the next gen Capcom Megaman game either. ;)

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Zaldron said:

64 MB, mmh, I don´t see a future here. Today PC games are hitting the 64 MB minimum limit, while they recommend 96 to 128 MB for optimal results. I can´t believe that while having a NV25, they´ll need to cut down the textures in order to make the framebuffer fit in the Xbox.

Oh, compared to the 4 megs of vram on the PS2 or the 8 on the DC? Hell, I think the Gamecube is supposed to have 4 too (what I'e heard, not confirmed).

This certainly makes the X-Box a prime candidate for heavy duty PC ports.

Shit, look at Q3A on the DC (and it only has 8 megs of vram!). If the game will run on 32 megs of vram then it will run on the X-Box, level data and the such can be compressed 'cuz it doesn't have to have that edit-ability that it does on the PC.

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deadnail said:

I too love Zelda and Metroid.

Castlevania is a Konami game, bastard! You just invented a new sin. I can't wait to see the next gen Capcom Megaman game either. ;)

Dang, I knew that was wrong. Oh well...

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deadnail said:

Hell, I think the Gamecube is supposed to have 4 too (what I'e heard, not confirmed).

Source: http://cube.ign.com/news/23749.html

Embedded Frame Buffer: 2MB Static RAM 5ns latency
Embedded Texture Cache: 1MB Static RAM 5ns latency

Main RAM: 24MB Static RAM 10ns latency
A-Memory: 16MB 100MHz DRAM 10ns latency (Audio RAM. Not sure exactly what else this is for, staging cache perhaps)

That's 43MB total.

The embedded SRAM has a Texture Read Bandwidth of 12.8GB/sec.

Why only 1MB texture cache you ask? Two reasons. First, it's used as cache, not main texture storage. Second, texture compression. 1MB in all practicality is like having 6MB with S3TC hardwired onto the chip.

I am not sure I like the UMA concept on the Xbox. It has it's benefits, but also it's drawbacks. That 6.4GB bandwidth has to be shared with EVERYTHING in the system, whereas GC and PS2 have RAM divided across different memory banks. Think about it, the GeForce2's have a bandwidth of about 4GB/sec (Zaldron will correct me if I am wrong ;-)) and we have seen how bandwidth limited it is. This is just for the GPU! Imagine having to force everything over that pipe, now you can see what concerns me.

GC texture bandwidth is (as I have already mentioned) 12.8GB/sec. It's bandwidth to the main RAM is 3.2GB/sec and the A-RAM is 1.6GB/sec. That's 17.6GB/sec of bandwidth!!! Xbox doesn't look so great now does it?

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Oh, so the 1Mb of the GC has S3TC so it's like 6 megs.
Well, the 32Mb of the XB has DXTC so it's like 192 megs.

CPU / GPU (in Mhz):
X-Box: 733 P3 / 250 Custom nVidia
PS2: 294 / 147 Emotion
GC: 405 Power PC 'Gekko' / 202.5 Custom 'Flipper'

Polygon Performance:
X-Box: 125 M/sec
PS2: 66 M/sec
GC: 6-12 M/sec

Pixel Fill Rate (2 textures):
X-Box: 4 G/sec
PS2: .6 G/sec
GC: Unknown

Audio:
X-Box: 256 channels, 64 3D channels
PS2: 48, 0 3D
GC: 64, unknown 3D

Memory Bandwidth:
X-Box: 6.4 G/sec
PS2: 3.2 G/sec
GC: 3.2 G/sec

Simultaneous Texturing:
X-Box: 4
PS2: 1
GC: Unknown

Texture Compression:
X-Box: 6:1
PS2: None
GC: 6:1



The X-Box doesn't sound so hot now because it doesn't have the same bandwidth? Ha. Oh well, I'll just have to live with the 10.4 times of polygon crunching power. The fact that it's DVD and has twice as much space per disc doesn't hurt either.

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Lord FlatHead said:

I agree, X-box is looking very impressive. As long as I have a shiny beige miracle box on my desk I'm not thinking about getting one, though I expect the graphics to be TONS better than Playstation two or Nintendo's new console.

To get an idea how the graphics will look, take a look at www.wxp3d.com. They're developing something called the 'Experience Engine', and have a might cool tech demo of it. It handles both tiny details and large outdoor areas with ease, and it's going to be used for a few X-Box games soon.

By the way, in His QuakeCon 2000 speech John Carmack said an X-Box port of Doom 3 is a "no-brainer" because of its generous memory and Nvidia processor. The consoles are finally catching up with the PC (well, sorta).

Consoles will never catch up to computers and they will never kill them either (remember the bullshit "PC GAMING IS DEAD!" messages when the PS2 hit? oh please.).

Consoles are developed with top of the line tech but when they are shipped and actually available that same tech is almost a year old (often older). The console is a closed box and from that point on is done whereas the computer market is constantly evolving.

As for you Zaldron... why doesn't 64 megs seem like enough? You should see the Quake 3 levels they jammed into 16, lightmaps and all. Given 32 I'm sure they can make the Doom 3 levels fit. Sure, maybe this ceiling will have half as many polys but Jesus, sometimes streamlining is better anyway.

Oh, and so what if the textures aren't 1024 by 1024? Oh well, a few of them get demoted to 512 by 512. With that harddrive texture swaps could be really fast paced and with a little clever level modification it might not even hurt the game as much as Q3A got hurt.

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deadnail said:

Oh, so the 1Mb of the GC has S3TC so it's like 6 megs.
Well, the 32Mb of the XB has DXTC so it's like 192 megs.

CPU / GPU (in Mhz):
X-Box: 733 P3 / 250 Custom nVidia
PS2: 294 / 147 Emotion
GC: 405 Power PC 'Gekko' / 202.5 Custom 'Flipper'

Polygon Performance:
X-Box: 125 M/sec
PS2: 66 M/sec
GC: 6-12 M/sec

Pixel Fill Rate (2 textures):
X-Box: 4 G/sec
PS2: .6 G/sec
GC: Unknown

Audio:
X-Box: 256 channels, 64 3D channels
PS2: 48, 0 3D
GC: 64, unknown 3D

Memory Bandwidth:
X-Box: 6.4 G/sec
PS2: 3.2 G/sec
GC: 3.2 G/sec

Simultaneous Texturing:
X-Box: 4
PS2: 1
GC: Unknown

Texture Compression:
X-Box: 6:1
PS2: None
GC: 6:1



The X-Box doesn't sound so hot now because it doesn't have the same bandwidth? Ha. Oh well, I'll just have to live with the 10.4 times of polygon crunching power. The fact that it's DVD and has twice as much space per disc doesn't hurt either.

Im still unsure about this. Obviously, I have to check Nvidia´s compression system. My worries are pretty simple, compressed textures ussually forbid some special operations while multi-texturing. This kind of issues have happened in many other cards, and I doubt how the NV25 handles this.
Maybe this is a minor problem, and with just some more extra special passes you can archieve the same quality than uncompressed, altough this would reduce the global framerate of the game.

64 don´t seem enough to me. Why? Not just because of textures, but because of the game specifics stuff. Portals and dyn lighting will make the map size go way, way down, altough there´s a huge increment in polycounts, and that means more information to store. The models are pretty complex now, and if there was no skeletal system added, each character could weight 20 MB RAM. The bumpmaps means ANOTHER 8-bit texture per each texture of the game. Probably of the same size or 2x.
256x256@24 textures will get a fair compression, altough don´t count with magic.

There´s a nice CPU hit while decompressing texts, let´s hope T&L so well implemented that there´s plenty of CPU to waste...

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deadnail said:

Consoles will never catch up to computers and they will never kill them either (remember the bullshit "PC GAMING IS DEAD!" messages when the PS2 hit? oh please.).

Consoles are developed with top of the line tech but when they are shipped and actually available that same tech is almost a year old (often older). The console is a closed box and from that point on is done whereas the computer market is constantly evolving.

As for you Zaldron... why doesn't 64 megs seem like enough? You should see the Quake 3 levels they jammed into 16, lightmaps and all. Given 32 I'm sure they can make the Doom 3 levels fit. Sure, maybe this ceiling will have half as many polys but Jesus, sometimes streamlining is better anyway.

Oh, and so what if the textures aren't 1024 by 1024? Oh well, a few of them get demoted to 512 by 512. With that harddrive texture swaps could be really fast paced and with a little clever level modification it might not even hurt the game as much as Q3A got hurt.

Carmack himself talked a lot about consoles (especially PS2 and X-Box) in his QuakeCon 2000 speech. There's a 90 minute recording of it, and I've actually listened to it all. According to Carmack the consoles ideally only need about one third of the power and memory of a decent PC because consoles are a fixed platform. That means you can do a bunch of optimisations specific for that platform - without having to think about all the different kinds of video cards or amounts of RAM.

So Doom 3 will require 128Mb for the PC platform, but when optimized for the X-Box, 64 Meg should be fine.

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deadnail said:

Oh, so the 1Mb of the GC has S3TC so it's like 6 megs.
Well, the 32Mb of the XB has DXTC so it's like 192 megs.

CPU / GPU (in Mhz):
X-Box: 733 P3 / 250 Custom nVidia
PS2: 294 / 147 Emotion
GC: 405 Power PC 'Gekko' / 202.5 Custom 'Flipper'

Polygon Performance:
X-Box: 125 M/sec
PS2: 66 M/sec
GC: 6-12 M/sec

Pixel Fill Rate (2 textures):
X-Box: 4 G/sec
PS2: .6 G/sec
GC: Unknown

Audio:
X-Box: 256 channels, 64 3D channels
PS2: 48, 0 3D
GC: 64, unknown 3D

Memory Bandwidth:
X-Box: 6.4 G/sec
PS2: 3.2 G/sec
GC: 3.2 G/sec

Simultaneous Texturing:
X-Box: 4
PS2: 1
GC: Unknown

Texture Compression:
X-Box: 6:1
PS2: None
GC: 6:1



The X-Box doesn't sound so hot now because it doesn't have the same bandwidth? Ha. Oh well, I'll just have to live with the 10.4 times of polygon crunching power. The fact that it's DVD and has twice as much space per disc doesn't hurt either.

>>Oh, so the 1Mb of the GC has S3TC so it's like 6 megs.
>>Well, the 32Mb of the XB has DXTC so it's like 192 megs.

That's just texture cache. GC also has 24MB of main RAM to store textures. Still not as much as your example, but alot closer.

>>CPU / GPU (in Mhz):
>>X-Box: 733 P3 / 250 Custom nVidia
>>PS2: 294 / 147 Emotion
>>GC: 405 Power PC 'Gekko' / 202.5 Custom 'Flipper'

The CPU's don't really mean that much in this generation of consoles with the advent of T&L units. The CPU's should only handle physics and AI.

>>Polygon Performance:
>>X-Box: 125 M/sec --------> RAW
>>PS2: 66 M/sec -----------> RAW
>>GC: 6-12 M/sec ----------> Very conservative.

I have heard that some developers can get 20-45 IN-GAME from GC.

>>Pixel Fill Rate (2 textures):
>>X-Box: 4 G/sec
>>PS2: .6 G/sec
>>GC: Unknown

GC pixel fill rate is estimated at 3.2G/sec. Remember it is 50MHz slower, which accounts for the difference.

>>Audio:
>>X-Box: 256 channels, 64 3D channels
>>PS2: 48, 0 3D
>>GC: 64, unknown 3D

GC can do 64 voices in 3d. Julian Eggbrecht of Factor 5 (the company who designed GC's sound DSP) said that it can easily do as many as Xbox.

>>Memory Bandwidth:
>>X-Box: 6.4 G/sec
>>PS2: 3.2 G/sec
>>GC: 3.2 G/sec

Remember that Xbox's bandwidth is shared. PS2's and GC's are not. PS2 total bandwidth is over 50GB/sec. (texture bandwidth is a massive 48GB/sec!) GC total bandwidth is 17.6GB/sec.

>>Simultaneous Texturing:
>>X-Box: 4
>>PS2: 1
>>GC: Unknown
http://cube.ign.com/news/30003.html Look at the "Flipper Specifications" section. GC can do 8.

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> That's just texture cache. GC also has 24MB of main RAM to
> store textures. Still not as much as your example, but alot
> closer.

Yeah but the X-Box also has an 8 gig hard drive that can be utilized for just such occaisions.

> The CPU's don't really mean that much in this generation of
> consoles with the advent of T&L units. The CPU's should only
> handle physics and AI.

What's why I gave GPU speeds too.

> I have heard that some developers can get 20-45 IN-GAME from GC.

That's still 1/4th of the X-Box's raw stats, who knows what they can really pull from it.

> GC can do 64 voices in 3d. Julian Eggbrecht of Factor 5 (the
> company who designed GC's sound DSP) said that it can easily do
> as many as Xbox.

Good. Now we can hear those Metroids comin'! =)

> Remember that Xbox's bandwidth is shared. PS2's and GC's are
> not. PS2 total bandwidth is over 50GB/sec. (texture bandwidth
> is a massive 48GB/sec!) GC total bandwidth is 17.6GB/sec.

Good. That's still just one piece of the pie and it doesn't seem to affect the performance as much as it would a PC because it won't need to transfer as much data as the GC will (more RAM).

> Look at the "Flipper Specifications" section. GC can do 8.

Well hey, good. I didn't think Nintendo would get COMPLETELY blown away by the competition, that's very unlike them. The sad thing is just that single meg of vram... that's going to be the biggest kick in the balls.

Hell, the lack of vram is the only thing fucking over the PS2... and it's really fucking it over HARD.

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Well, I see this most likely is going to end in a stalemate. I guess we will have to wait until both systems are released before we can make final comparisons. Both will rock though, if anything because of the games.

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Hell, I bought an N64 just for Duke Nukem: Zero Hour (still a good purchase IMO).

I've got this sinking feeling that I'll have to snag a PS2 just for a few certian games. At least I'll be able to replace my aging PS with it. =) Hello Bilinear, where have you been all my life? Oh yeah, ePSXe... that's right...

The thing that draws me more to the X-Box than the GC is the developers... and the FPS genre. BTW, what the hell kind of framebuffer will the GC have?

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sorry to burst everyones bubbles here but Gamecube kan handle up to 45 milion polygons a second when all the games uses its graphic card at maximum capacaty!i love all the zelda,mario and metroid games!im going to buy 2 GameCubes!

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That's still less than half the power of an X-Box during regular use, not even maximum.

Still, I know I'll buy one for Metroid. =)

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Guest blueflame
Lord FlatHead said:

Carmack himself talked a lot about consoles (especially PS2 and X-Box) in his QuakeCon 2000 speech. There's a 90 minute recording of it, and I've actually listened to it all. According to Carmack the consoles ideally only need about one third of the power and memory of a decent PC because consoles are a fixed platform. That means you can do a bunch of optimisations specific for that platform - without having to think about all the different kinds of video cards or amounts of RAM.

So Doom 3 will require 128Mb for the PC platform, but when optimized for the X-Box, 64 Meg should be fine.

Ok I am new here but I saw this arguement and had to sign up and argue for the GC's sake...ok...the xbox may have a 750mhz p III processor which is ok and nice and all...but its aluminum based....IBM developed the GC's processor w\Copper dude..it's one BAD ass processor...I have buddies that work for IBM's developemental team and he said it is a SWEET design....so i can't wait personally..x-box sounds great....and I will get one..to go along with my ps2 and puter..but GC is at the top of my list...when i saw the GC demo's...of zelda and stuff..they looked GREAT..and as good as alot of the x-box demo's...so only ime will tell :)

-blue

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Dude, You are confused. IBM is making the X-Box and Nintendo are making the GameCube (Either that or stupid)J/K

My input however on this situation is that both sound bloody good and if possible i will buy both and connect them up
(AS if)
No games would be made on both platforms anyway, or would they?
It would be interesting (If they did) to compare the games on each machine.

"He Is NOT the Messiah, he is just a naughty naughty boy"
(Monty Python's Life of Brian)

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Dude, you're confused!

The X-Box is made by Microsoft with a processor by Intel.
The Gamecube is made by Nintendo with a processor by IBM.


No games will be made on both? Ha. Lots of games will be cross platform. Most sports games but hell, even if they're different brands just by looking at the player models, animation and detail you can tell which system will be stronger. Nintendo isn't well known for sports games anyway, thanks to the faults of the N64.

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Oh is it!

Sorry People! I did not know that!!

Well if IBM are designing the chip for the Game Cube then it will kick the Xbox's ass!

I do not like Microsoft at all. Apart from the occasional game, most of their products are crap. Intel are fine.

Go GAMECUBE.

Why? Simple Nintendo have always made good machines.
Ibm machines are good as well.

But we shall have to see.
I still intend to get both however.
I hope Sports games are not the only ones that go cross platform.

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Microsoft make bloatware instead of software, but they do make some good hardware (let's not mention the Microsoft Natural keyboard, that was a big mistake, but otherwise it's good).

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Oh Ok, wrong again! Me Thinks:\(Thats an oxymoron) Am I ever right?

<Capacity Crowd at Large Stadium yell: NO>

List some Hardware that they make, I am not familiar with that.

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deadnail said:

BTW, what the hell kind of framebuffer will the GC have?

I don't know exactly yet. A friend of mine is getting the "Official Specifications and Features Guide" in a few days. That should say everything we need to know. Though I doubt I will be allowed to post it here.

There are several things about 'Flipper' that I still have questions about, like how many pipelines and TMU's it has.

Oh well...

BTW, I almost forgot, from what I am hearing, GC RAW polygon rate is in the neighborhood of 90-100 million. Still less than Xbox, but I believe that GC is a more balanced design.

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