Columbine

[Zaldron]

*sigh*

Here we go again...

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,11%257E24990,00.html

I´m NOT even going to give my opinion, since everybody knows it. I´ll like to post a comment made by a Stomped visitor, wich I think it pretty much explains it all :

"The cause and effect between playing DOOM and committing murder is a relatively easy scientific hypothesis. Simplifying here for brevity's sake:

NULL hypothesis: playing DOOM causes players to kill people.

Sample size: 1 million to 10 million+ people who have played doom in the US (not looking at world wide figures).

Number of people who have played DOOM and killed people: 2 upwards of 10 in the US (the upper limit is not known for sure, but will assume 10 here for argument's sake).

Statistical significance is 1 in 100,000 to 1 in 1,000,000 or: 0.00001 to 0.000001.

Most scientists use a value of 0.05 as the threshold for statistical significance when looking at phenomenon. Simple analysis here shows that there is no relationship between playing DOOM and killing people.

The case should be dismissed."

People should think before doing...

[Lüt]

Zaldron said:

He called on Carmack to prohibit the sale and distribution of all video games rated for mature audiences to children under 17 - and to do it by April 30.

THAT'S MY BIRTHDAY! THEY'RE GOING TO BASTARDIZE MY BIRTHDAY BY PULLING THIS SHIT ON APRIL 30 HUH?

I DON'T THINK SO!!

[Lüt]

You know what else is funny, under the DenverPost Online communities, where they have those channels like Health & Fitness, Recreation, Career, Entertainment, etc. they have one called Columbine. If I had time I'd post my own page there stating the opinions of all the members here and make it all-the-more well known what you just said about scientific statistics and what everybody else here knows to be true.

Maybe somebody else should do that.

[EllipsusD]

Reading that makes me want to be responsible for a violent game... just to have the opportunity to argue it with those fools.

[deadnail]

Lüt said:

THAT'S MY BIRTHDAY! THEY'RE GOING TO BASTARDIZE MY BIRTHDAY BY PULLING THIS SHIT ON APRIL 30 HUH?

I DON'T THINK SO!!

The hell is wrong with you? I was carded when I bought Parasite Eve 2 last fucking year. My droogie is a Manager at the local Hollywood video, his orders are to **FIRE** any employee that rents Conker's Bad Fur Day to a kid (or to a parent FOR a kid).

So how bad is the game? It starts out with the squirrel getting drunk as hell and vomiting on a stranger in the street. Then it progresses to doing random tasks to go from one place to the next, laden with profanity and dirty humor the whole way through.

"Man, you gotta help me! Get this fat bitch of my back!"
"C'mon you pussy assed faggot kick his fucking ass!"

Of course the harder words are censored... about the worst one they let slide is 'shit'. Typical N64... dammit, the game is rated M. 17 or above. Like R. Why can't they have Showgirls style nudity or Last Boy Scout style language? It's a double standard.

[stphrz]

Here's my little theory. School shootings are bad. They cause IQs to drop :P

[deadnail]

To contest your theory... who gets shot in school shootings? The people that keep shoving, hitting and insulting the weirdo quiet kids in the back of the class (like I used to be).

I don't call that an IQ drop, most of them deserve some punishment... although 8 grams of lead is hellaciously excessive.

The neutral kids are the ones that usually succeed, 'cuz they're too busy studying to afford any sort of social life. I smoked a lot of weed and spent most of my focus on chicks, hence, I ended up dropping out and getting my GED. =P

Coincidentally enough, I failed my Junior year of High School yet I passed the GED when I was 14. Go figure, the damn thing doesn't count 'till you're 18. I landed a Union Steelworkers job and now I make as much as people that went to college for two years. BTW, the layoff (thanks to the Clinton recession) is being pulled back sharply and I should be returning to work within a month! Yay!

Never trust the quiet kids or the fashion kids.

The quiet kids are quiet 'cuz they're thinking a lot. Maybe they're thinking about video games, being a movie director, or just maybe they're thinking about shooting a fashion kid. You don't know, they're usually sarcastic assholes (again, like me) so you can't really engage them in conversation.

The fashion kids are loud and try DESPERATELY to be noticed and fit in because at heart they don't believe themselves, that's why they attempt to bring EVERYONE else down they can in some vain idiotic attempt to make themselves seem better... justified to them because it only works for them.

The easiest people to pick on are the quiet ones.

So who wins?

No one, 'cuz kids are like EVERY OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE (let me repeat myself):
A few winners, A WHOLE LOTTA LOSERS.



*Sigh*
What ever happened to parenting?

[Zaldron]

deadnail said:

The hell is wrong with you? I was carded when I bought Parasite Eve 2 last fucking year. My droogie is a Manager at the local Hollywood video, his orders are to **FIRE** any employee that rents Conker's Bad Fur Day to a kid (or to a parent FOR a kid).

So how bad is the game? It starts out with the squirrel getting drunk as hell and vomiting on a stranger in the street. Then it progresses to doing random tasks to go from one place to the next, laden with profanity and dirty humor the whole way through.

"Man, you gotta help me! Get this fat bitch of my back!"
"C'mon you pussy assed faggot kick his fucking ass!"

Of course the harder words are censored... about the worst one they let slide is 'shit'. Typical N64... dammit, the game is rated M. 17 or above. Like R. Why can't they have Showgirls style nudity or Last Boy Scout style language? It's a double standard.

I can´t believe they listed NINTENDO, the fischer-price console/games developer, on that lawsuit. Definitly, a person looks like a complete fool when he talks of something they don´t know squat about.

[Zaldron]

EllipsusD said:

Reading that makes me want to be responsible for a violent game... just to have the opportunity to argue it with those fools.

Yeah, a nice flamewar a la Derek Smart would put those morons in their minds.

[Lüt]

EllipsusD said:

Reading that makes me want to be responsible for a violent game... just to have the opportunity to argue it with those fools.

I'd go more for the music/music video route. Nowadays you don't have to have any talent or uniquity whatsoever to make it big so that industry is fair game.

[Guest Zack]

Lüt said:

THAT'S MY BIRTHDAY! THEY'RE GOING TO BASTARDIZE MY BIRTHDAY BY PULLING THIS SHIT ON APRIL 30 HUH?

I DON'T THINK SO!!

Lut, just be happy, man, that your b-day isn't April 20.

[stphrz]

deadnail said:

Actually I was referring to the dumbass connection between video games and violence made by the media and society in general (which seems to accept everthing the media tells them). It's just so stupid. Every time there is a school shooting it's inevitble that everything and everyone gets blamed except for the shooters themselves and/or the ignorant ass bullies who pushed them beyond their capacity to endure. Of course parenting also factors heavily into this. Parents do need to know what their kids are doing. Parents do need to teach their kids not to be bullies. I personally was never bullied to any degree worth mentioning. I was one of those "neutral" type kids. I was never popular with the "elite" set, but I wasn't a target of them either.

[stphrz]

Zaldron said:

I can´t believe they listed NINTENDO, the fischer-price console/games developer, on that lawsuit. Definitly, a person looks like a complete fool when he talks of something they don´t know squat about.

Like I said. School shootings cause IQ's to drop......

[deadnail]

stphrz said:

Actually I was referring to the dumbass connection between video games and violence made by the media and society in general (which seems to accept everthing the media tells them). It's just so stupid. Every time there is a school shooting it's inevitble that everything and everyone gets blamed except for the shooters themselves and/or the ignorant ass bullies who pushed them beyond their capacity to endure. Of course parenting also factors heavily into this. Parents do need to know what their kids are doing. Parents do need to teach their kids not to be bullies. I personally was never bullied to any degree worth mentioning. I was one of those "neutral" type kids. I was never popular with the "elite" set, but I wasn't a target of them either.

I was quiet/neutral... although I had A LOT of friends none of them would really stick up for me, they just thought I was cool. You get respect when you freely cuss out teachers, especially when the teacher's like you so much they don't mind! =)

"That fuckin' bench just split I gotta splinter in my ass!"
"Excuse me, Mister Hicks, do you mean you have a splinter in your butt-tocks?"
"Yeah, right in my fucking right ass cheek."
"Well okay so long as we're in agreement."

=P

[Zaldron]

So was I (and I still are). Quiet/Neutral with no real threats. I had friends who would stick out for me, but it wasn´t necessary. A good portion of my friends were on higher courses, so *MAY* had some kind of shield.

[Submerge]

deadnail said:

The hell is wrong with you? I was carded when I bought Parasite Eve 2 last fucking year. My droogie is a Manager at the local Hollywood video, his orders are to **FIRE** any employee that rents Conker's Bad Fur Day to a kid (or to a parent FOR a kid).

So how bad is the game? It starts out with the squirrel getting drunk as hell and vomiting on a stranger in the street. Then it progresses to doing random tasks to go from one place to the next, laden with profanity and dirty humor the whole way through.

"Man, you gotta help me! Get this fat bitch of my back!"
"C'mon you pussy assed faggot kick his fucking ass!"

Of course the harder words are censored... about the worst one they let slide is 'shit'. Typical N64... dammit, the game is rated M. 17 or above. Like R. Why can't they have Showgirls style nudity or Last Boy Scout style language? It's a double standard.

I completely understand why an employee would get fired for selling or renting that game to a young person.

I took a short look at a strategy guide and.......
I don't think I'll buy it anytime soon, let's say.
Unless, I got a brain tumor that took control of me, or something.

That is like, the only game I've seen that is rated M for it's sick content, not violence.

[Lord FlatHead]

In the past few years I've shot, blown up, pistol-whipped or otherwise hurt many thousands of people and monsters in games. Doing these things, never was I as disgusted with myself as I am with these people.

A loved one has been shot, so what's the natural reaction ? Blame it on Carmack and use the death of your husband to become a millionaire.

How low can you go ?

[Disorder]

Amen... That bitch should be shot in the head herself.. Oh, wait. I gotta stop playing SoF man... ;)

[sirgalahadwizar]

Whoah, I jsut tried to reply and lots of gibberish came up, like keywords for a search engine or something... anyway.

I have played doom and doom-like games for the past 5 years... so far I have not hurt, destroyed, or otherwise disposed of any physical property or animals under any impulse I may have had while playing these games.

I would ahve to say, that the most effect these games may have had on me - for any situation that might occur in the future, would ahve to be an improvement in either strategy or tactics. These games, in no way or very little way, train you to be a (better) killer. First of all, The guns you are given to use in these games are usually not real, and the ones that are real are still unrealistic in their function. When you fire a weapon in the real world it gives off a loud bang and recoils in your hand - both things do not happen in games (and it's only loud if you have volume AND bass turned up - then it still isn't realistic).

In most doom-like games you are not rewarded for hitting any special areas on an opponent's body, thus you are not being trained to fire a weapon in a specificially lethal fasion - any knowledge that you derive from this comes from you or other sources.

[Davidoom]

In the wake of this, the rise in school shootings may lead to Doom, Id Software to be blamed....will it ever end? :(

[Davidoom]

stphrz said:

It is our job as parents to know what is going on in our kids lives. It is our job as parents to take whatever corrective and/or disciplinary action necessary to insure that our kids act in a respon

And with the parenting issues you brought up...one person said, aftermath of Columbine

[masterhassan]

deadnail said:

I was quiet/neutral... although I had A LOT of friends none of them would really stick up for me, they just thought I was cool. You get respect when you freely cuss out teachers, especially when the teacher's like you so much they don't mind! =)

"That fuckin' bench just split I gotta splinter in my ass!"
"Excuse me, Mister Hicks, do you mean you have a splinter in your butt-tocks?"
"Yeah, right in my fucking right ass cheek."
"Well okay so long as we're in agreement."

=P

deadguy ive always felt sort of a bond with you (no gay jokes intended) i used to be the wquiet type...probably because i would get made fun of if i opened my =mouth...like i always did. but then aorudn 6th grade i realized that i dotn give a shit...make fun of me all you want. and i started to like it. now im a complete individual. but i talk more thatn anyone i know...and im sarchastic as hell. sarchasm is my main weapon. i hate it when peopel dont notice me. i maek then notice me. and if tehy tried to beat teh shit out of me id kick theyre ass. but noone would because pretty much everyoenb thinks im funny now. its eird as soon as you stop tryign to fit in everyone starts likign you. ...ok maybe we dont have much in common. but most of my veiws are the same as yours. i seriously want to write a letter containing all of the arguments on this subject to some big shot government guy. i doubt anyone knows how to contact bush do oyu?

[masterhassan]

Lüt said:

You know what else is funny, under the DenverPost Online communities, where they have those channels like Health & Fitness, Recreation, Career, Entertainment, etc. they have one called Columbine. If I had time I'd post my own page there stating the opinions of all the members here and make it all-the-more well known what you just said about scientific statistics and what everybody else here knows to be true.

Maybe somebody else should do that.

thats a kick ass idea. then theyd know what other goths/punks/anti-social/weirdos (myself) think about this whoel shitstain in our society

[Lüt]

Hell, if somebody did, I'd even register their website for them.

[sirgalahadwizar]

deadnail said:

Yeah, quiet guys like me who people thought would blow the school up.

The weirdo at the back of the class (or front and side of class) is usually the smartest guy in the room, they just dont get much credit for it all the time because some of them are lazy (ie, grades do not = intelligence).

Anyway, it's not much of an IQ drop, but its a great improvement in the average IQ of the class :).
Besides, even IQ doesn't measure intelligence - to do that you have to take about 8 seperate IQ tests aimed at certain aspects of intelligence. I think these are the ones:

Math, Literary, Spatial, Intrapersonal, Interpersonal, Verbal, and a few others I forgot.

I excel at spatial, and am partially good at math, but I suck at all the rest.

[Guest Stealthy Ivan]

Yup.... fuck Columbine, This happened a long time ago, who cares anymore, its fucking lame.

[Zaldron]

sirgalahadwizar said:

Yeah, quiet guys like me who people thought would blow the school up.

The weirdo at the back of the class (or front and side of class) is usually the smartest guy in the room, they just dont get much credit for it all the time because some of them are lazy (ie, grades do not = intelligence).

Anyway, it's not much of an IQ drop, but its a great improvement in the average IQ of the class :).
Besides, even IQ doesn't measure intelligence - to do that you have to take about 8 seperate IQ tests aimed at certain aspects of intelligence. I think these are the ones:

Math, Literary, Spatial, Intrapersonal, Interpersonal, Verbal, and a few others I forgot.

I excel at spatial, and am partially good at math, but I suck at all the rest.

Those are the only ones I know, they gave me those tests the first day on high school...

[Guest sunshinegoth]

sirgalahadwizar said:

first person games completely train you to be a better killer. i'm not experienced with actual guns (i have fired an m-16 before, but aside from that), but i'll bet you i could hit a running person more often than someone who had never played first person shooters. (i read a study the american government did..they gave rifles to kids who had never used a gun before, but liked to play FPS's, and compared their accuracy to a group of kids who had never used a gun before, and didn't like to play FPS. they found that the kids who played FPS's had remarkable accuracy.)

how can you say that you aren't given "real" guns in a game? do "shotguns" and "pistols" not exist? ... have you ever played counterstrike? they use real guns, from what i remember.. (desert eagles, and such)

"loud bangs" have nothing to do with it. how can you say that the guns in games aren't realistic in their funtion? you point, you pull the trigger, buddy you're pointing at gets a big hole in him.

in most new doom-like games, you ARE rewarded for hitting specific areas.. have you ever played soldier of fortune? when you shoot them in the face, you take them out with one bullet... when you shoot them in the arm, they loose an arm..

i don't think that the "anti-violence in video games" movement really says that FPS's teach kids that shooting people in the head kills them... any idiot knows that. their real arguments are that violent video games are improving peoples aim with guns in real life (which is true) and that violent video games desensitize people to violence. (which is also true)

nobody can say that doom causes people to kill people (i personally think 'harassment' causes people to kill people..), but you can argue that it makes people more efficient at killing. that's not entirely a bad thing.. i mean.. military and police training both make people more efficient killers (i.e. better shots)

(and what the hell is wrong with being 'desensitized' to violence? aren't doctors and policemen 'desensitized' to it?)

[Zaldron]

I think the only reason why FPSs teach somehow to handle weapons is more based on eye-hand coordination improvement than actual gun wisdom.

I took a course on weapon handling for a year, and I pretty much suck with rifles. In fact I was astonished while realizing how complex is the firing process. You never get that feel on games.

FPSs don´t teach too much. The only thing I can rescue is the basics of weapon reloading, and a general idea on hows a weapon carried/aimed.

People fond of war movies have by far more wisdom regarding weapon usage, while FPSs players have eye-hand coord. A gamer could be better in firing/aiming than a no-gamer, but what´s the point?

The point of discussion is not "games teach to use fireguns", is "games teach to murder". This has absolutely no sense. If a kid´s screwed enough to actually try to kill people, it won´t matter if he has an M4 or a stick with a nail, he´ll do it...

[Guest CRiZ]

sirgalahadwizar said:

Most real guns aren't aimed with a mouse, duh.

These games may make you think more like a cold blooded killer. If you don't play these games you probably won't be exposed to situations where your only thought is how to most efficiently destroy a lifeform.

Wackos kill people, not Doom fans. A wacko can be a Doom fan, but he only kills people cuz he's wacko. DUH.