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Voros

just wondering about Doom 2016's data files.

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Doom 1 and 2 had WAD files, which were easily accessible for modding and creating map WADs was easy enough, with time.
Doom 3 had...PK4 files, which were even more accessible, but modding wasn't as easy. At least it is mod friendly.
Doom 2016...maybe the data was so complex that id software was forced to make SnapMap? To ease mapping and modding for the casual gamer?
What kind of system of data will be used? Maybe something from PKX group ( X is a number)?
Do you think modders will stop at SnapMap?
Finally...The holy source code...

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Unless I'm mistaken, ID pretty much said the source code just isn't gonna happen because Bethesda won't agree to it. Doesn't necessarily mean it can't become mod friendly, Bethesda seems just fine with THEIR games getting modded so why shouldn't they allow it for Doom?

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MetroidJunkie said:

Unless I'm mistaken, ID pretty much said the source code just isn't gonna happen because Bethesda won't agree to it. Doesn't necessarily mean it can't become mod friendly, Bethesda seems just fine with THEIR games getting modded so why shouldn't they allow it for Doom?

Doom 1 & 2's source code released (right?).
Doom 3's source code released (BFG Edition yes. Normal, IDK).

Basically, its like every Doom game has its source code released to increase moddability.

<POSSIBLE FUTURE>
DOOM's source code released, Modders rise to take control.

Technically, a Doom game with no access to its source code, just doesn't seem like Doom at all.

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Voros said:

Doom 1 & 2's source code released (right?).
Doom 3's source code released (BFG Edition yes. Normal, IDK).

Basically, its like every Doom game has its source code released to increase moddability.

<POSSIBLE FUTURE>
DOOM's source code released, Modders rise to take control.

Technically, a Doom game with no access to its source code, just doesn't seem like Doom at all.


You're missing the point. Every Doom game which had it's source released was created before id were bought by Zenimax. Zenimax do not like releasing source or rights or anything like that for projects and materials that they own.

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AirRaid said:

You're missing the point. Every Doom game which had it's source released was created before id were bought by Zenimax. Zenimax do not like releasing source or rights or anything like that for projects and materials that they own.

Then it looks like we are going to have to hope for a miracle.

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

We're likely going to see some unexpected, unofficial modding/hacking methods .

Nah, that's completely obvious. Those things happen everyday.
Hopefully, they'll be good ones and the makers won't get into legal problems too much.

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I just want to remind that Duke Nukem Forever is also a possiblity. DNF has still no mod support and it's "modding" is at highest when you can override the default fov limit.

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Well they didn't release source code for moddability. It was because Carmack in a way wanted to give back to the community and let them learn from the source.

You don't need engine source to be moddable.

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Voros said:

What kind of system of data will be used? Maybe something from PKX group ( X is a number)?
Do you think modders will stop at SnapMap?
Finally...The holy source code...

Doom uses the same .resources format from id tech 5....anybody who still have alpha installed may take a look. As far as I'm aware .resources (Rage example) contains binarized data wich is none-editable even within Rage tool kit...there's PK5 package though but coudn't be open by any archivators....and still it doesn't matter even if we could...we stll wouldn't be able to pack data into resources format.
The only way to mod Doom is via Doom tool kit aka id studio.
Since it is like 100% that SnapMap's data is also packed into resources I have no idea how people are going to edit its assets without access to Doom tool kit.

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id.dav said:

Doom uses the same .resources format from id tech 5....anybody who still have alpha installed may take a look. As far as I'm aware .resources (Rage example) contains binarized data wich is none-editable even within Rage tool kit...there's PK5 package though but coudn't be open by any archivators....and still it doesn't matter even if we could...we stll wouldn't be able to pack data into resources format.
The only way to mod Doom is via Doom tool kit aka id studio.
Since it is like 100% that SnapMap's data is also packed into resources I have no idea how people are going to edit its assets without access to Doom tool kit.

Hackers or 3rd party programmers.

But id said SnapMap would allow you to edit game logic and create new maps (and more features).

PK5, doesn't it have a zip format, like PK3 and 4? Plus, someone will figure it out eventually.

isn't .resources used in Unity games?

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Like other people said, they don´t need to release the Source code to make a game modable.
In fact most of the ID Tech source codes were released years after the game it was made for.

Doom Engine: 1997 almost 1998 which means like 5 years after doom original release by the time they released this engine, it was an outdated engine
Id Tech 1: 1999 by this Year ID Software was almost done developing Id Tech 3. So again an Outdated engine for ID.
Id Tech 2: 2001 once again by this year their were working on Id Tech 4.
Id Tech 3: 2005
Id Tech 4: 2011

So we don´t know if we are going to see or not ID Tech 5 and 6. It´s unlike tough since Carmack is gone, but even if he was stil working for ID they wouldn´t release as an open source a brand new engine.

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Voros said:

Hackers or 3rd party programmers.

But id said SnapMap would allow you to edit game logic and create new maps (and more features).

PK5, doesn't it have a zip format, like PK3 and 4? Plus, someone will figure it out eventually.

isn't .resources used in Unity games?

Yes there's already a quickBMS script for unpacking id tech 5 resources, but unpacked data is compressed. There's nothing you can do with this! None-editable...I can't imagine what type of g e n i u s it takes to hack the data?
Yes..when you compile map in Rage tool kit it creates PK5 package, but I wasn't able to open it with any of the archivators.
SnapMap is a bit of a mistery right now....but it is sure as hell not a modding tool people are talking about.

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Wild Dog said:

Like other people said, they don´t need to release the Source code to make a game modable.

We just need a Doom tool kit/id studio.

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The Civ said:

Don't you mean SnapMap? :^)

NO! I'm talking about real dev tools wich is called id studio! SnapMap is not a modding tool!
Do PC people really think they'll mod textures, models, ai? Get real already!
Creating various game modes for snaped prefabs is as far as it gets!

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id.dav said:

NO! I'm talking about real dev tools wich is called id studio! SnapMap is not a modding tool!
Do PC people really think they'll mod textures, models, ai? Get real already!
Creating various game modes for snaped prefabs is as far as it gets!

But SnapMap© is the future of player created content!
It provides years of endless gameplay opportunities, not to mention new and creative ways for players to experience the upcoming id Sofware hit, DOOM© (Coming Spring 2016).

"If you ain't Snappin', then it ain't Mappin'."©

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id.dav said:

NO! I'm talking about real dev tools wich is called id studio! SnapMap is not a modding tool!
Do PC people really think they'll mod textures, models, ai? Get real already!
Creating various game modes for snaped prefabs is as far as it gets!

SnapMap is for creating user maps and game logic in the most user friendly way and with the resources provided with Doom 2016. Of course its not possible to mod textures(maybe in a simple graphics editor), models(maybe with modeling software), game logic is technically the whole thing consisting of the match system(how many frags, how many guns etc), environment(gravity strength), and AI(how fast, how strong, how limited,etc).

Although, going beyond that would require 3rd party software.

At The Civ- Snapping is Mapping... so I have to take screenshots of the layout of my map just to make a map? XD

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Game logic, Game logic, Game logic .... All i saw was the ability to spawn Monsters in a Custom map , This is technically not a Game logic .
Game logic is generally a term used to Describe the way other things work such as Weapons, Enemies AI, Items ... etc

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And because they haven't specifically shown a really boring video of someone editing some scripts to make a different game mode, clearly it doesn't exist!

Is your level of trust that low that you will completely dismiss out of hand anything which hasnt been shown to you complete with shiny graphics?

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AirRaid said:

And because they haven't specifically shown a really boring video of someone editing some scripts to make a different game mode, clearly it doesn't exist!

Is your level of trust that low that you will completely dismiss out of hand anything which hasnt been shown to you complete with shiny graphics?

I Read this : http://www.pcgamer.com/doom-will-not-get-mod-support-in-addition-to-snapmap/

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As id.dav said there is no possible to open .resources and extract any editable data. Have you tried to make your own map in RAGE? It's absolutely painfull. Idstudio in RAGE is a little piece of assets and code that should be in there. Monster - yeah without AI, no door function, small bunch of textures and the best - hours of hours of map compilation. New DOOM looks like RAGE, I'm a bit dissapoint it has almost this same engine as RAGE, thx to God gameplay is more more better (no iron sight, run and shoot at this same time, player doesn't to tire when run) at least at multi. I hope I will not see lazy weapons, weapon run animation, tire when run. And as they said, there will be no big map area possibility at snap map. I waste tons od time to make maps (little details, adjusting lights etc.) this time I hope I'll make new map in 30 minutes without worring about some little detail on walls - cause, as we have seen walls are pressets.

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DoomMarine82 said:

Have you tried to make your own map in RAGE? It's absolutely painfull.

Actually it's not! How many times should I repeat myself that map creation in Rage tool kit is pretty accesseible! That's why I'm saying that we need an id studio...where people will be free to use brushes...you can still make a pretty damn good brush based map with doom textures/assets included. Anybody familiar with radiant should be familiar with game logic. And world editor will never limit you in your creativity. Also considering that Doom inherits some tech from megatexture stamping wich they now call unique decals, artists can make a trully impressive maps.

Without any prior knowledge in map creation I did this somehow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01mrw1iVU6c

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Heh, I don't mean it's hard, it's simple like in DOOM3/QUAKES but many function dont works, compiling map is painfull, it taking to much time to look how everything is working in a game.
Here are some my old projects topics on bethesda forum:
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1451198-rage-map-project/
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1453086-courtyard-test-project/

and screens:

http://imgur.com/a/c9lyI
http://imgur.com/a/C9FIJ
http://imgur.com/a/ztSmJ
http://imgur.com/a/3gQDs


EDIT: btw :D :D it's you id.dav on that forum :D

P.S. nice work at this movie :) Maybe I back to rage sometime (or maybe I just wait for DOOM 4).

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DoomMarine82 said:

Heh, I don't mean it's hard, it's simple like in DOOM3/QUAKES but many function dont works, compiling map is painfull, it taking to much time to look how everything is working in a game.
Here are some my old projects topics on bethesda forum:
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1451198-rage-map-project/
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1453086-courtyard-test-project/

and screens:

http://imgur.com/a/c9lyI
http://imgur.com/a/C9FIJ
http://imgur.com/a/ztSmJ
http://imgur.com/a/3gQDs


EDIT: btw :D :D it's you id.dav on that forum :D

P.S. nice work at this movie :) Maybe I back to rage sometime (or maybe I just wait for DOOM 4).

Yeah yeah! I totally remeber your work!!! You were first who found out that ai navigation compiler was not included in tools! I kind a wish you continued your work, but I do understand why you lost enthusiasm)) But you are the one who inspired me to go deeper into Rage's tools and your screens are amasing...I mean FUCK ai, your visual work is amasing!! I mean add there some stamps and it is an example of awesome id tech 5 custom creation! And by the way the ai navigation is the only thing that simply was not there...other than that I have no complaints towards tools...everything I wanted to do in my maps works perfectly.
And BTW guys look at these screen:
http://imgur.com/a/3gQDs
Do you really think you'll do something like this in SnapMap?

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id.dav said:

Actually it's not! How many times should I repeat myself that map creation in Rage tool kit is pretty accesseible! That's why I'm saying that we need an id studio...where people will be free to use brushes...you can still make a pretty damn good brush based map with doom textures/assets included. Anybody familiar with radiant should be familiar with game logic. And world editor will never limit you in your creativity. Also considering that Doom inherits some tech from megatexture stamping wich they now call unique decals, artists can make a trully impressive maps.

Without any prior knowledge in map creation I did this somehow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01mrw1iVU6c



id.dav,

Did you actually create new levels/areas for RAGE? I had always assumed your mod was just a re-balance mod without any new content. But if not, then I'm really interested to try the new levels. Where are they located?

Edit: I mean where are they located in the game world?

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