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FLAW_88

Why all the hate on multi-player?

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Iv'e noticed a lot of hate (not necessarily here or from actual written reviews) but just gamers in general. Saying it looks boring, slow and unimaginative. Or simply calling it Quake or UT. I really don't understand. A huge portion of the hating I've read makes zero sense. Personally I think it looks fresh as hell and a lot of fun. I think it will do really well as of right now. Can't wait.

What does everyone else think from what's been shown so far?

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Can't say much due too the NDA, but I can tell you ... most of those worries and concerns were gone the moment I started playing the Alpha. Wish I could talk about it in depth.

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Most of the people who've actually played it have been very positive (including myself).

As for why there's a disconnect between those who've played it and those who've just watched it, I think that's because there's nothing about the multiplayer that really sticks out as something groundbreaking or unique, with the exception of maybe the playable demons. It's not a pure new-school sandbox multiplayer game like Battlefield and it's not a pure old-school blazing fast arena shooter like Quake/UT. It doesn't go too far in either direction, so people will say it looks generic.

But on the other hand, the game just feels really good and all the various influences and gameplay decisions are well thought out and mesh with iD's goal of constant movement, resulting in something that's a lot of fun.

This will be an interesting challenge for iD. It seems like plain ol' trailers won't do the trick. They'll need to generate word of mouth by continuing to invite people to alpha and beta tests.

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My criticism is mostly towards the comments, not the game itself. I think its kinda sad that the reddit community and other uninformed gamers and the shitty ass media websites are immediately jumping the gun saying its like quake or its like UT. In case people don't know or understand and simplying saying this because the game "looks-like" one of the two, doesn't mean it actually is anywhere near in comparison. Having played quakelive at a high level for a while now, this game is nothing like it. In fact it is SLOW AS SHIT compared to quake and theres NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, so lets stop comparing two completely different games or trying to relate them just because they came from the same developer. Quake had strafe jumping and ability to speed up your movement. No such feature in this game. So I hate to say it but I'm not seeing where the QL/UT comparison comes from. It seems like just a hype thing people tend to use to sell the game. And if you think this game's like quake, go ahead and jump into a quakelive ffa game and see how long you last and you'll understand the difficulty of quake compared to this game.

If anything, doom's been further simplified so people feel competitive from the start rather than having to scrounge around for guns and armour before fighting (which is what Marty said at Qcon this year) and THAT IS FINE, but I'm seeing a lot of blanket statements like "oh its just like quake 3" or "oh this feels exactly the same as quake". Please go play quake before saying that. Also the guns are a lot more nerfed than they were in either quake or UT. There really isn't a gun that can oneshot you or take you off the map very quickly and easily. Rockets are REALLY nerfed compared to quake with far less knockback, and the static cannon/shock rifle dont do enough damage from the start to be justified as a railgun.

I think I said this before but this game isn't meant for the small niche hardcore community, its meant for the average couch potato on xbox or ps4 who just wants to jump in and have a ton of fun without really doing a whole lot and thats totally fine. this game's meant to make money by appealing to a broader audience, not please a few thousand.

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Zemini said:

Can't say much due too the NDA, but I can tell you ... most of those worries and concerns were gone the moment I started playing the Alpha. Wish I could talk about it in depth.


There's gameplay out everywhere, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to hide or say that could potentially jeopardize that. I think most things can be inferred from the gameplay thats out there (the gameplay released by bethesda and the few 20+minute videos of the multiplayer)

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sleepii said:

There's gameplay out everywhere, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to hide or say that could potentially jeopardize that. I think most things can be inferred from the gameplay thats out there (the gameplay released by bethesda and the few 20+minute videos of the multiplayer)



Just curious, where have you seen the 20 minute videos? I've only seen the Bethesda 3 minutes of alpha gameplay.

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FLAW_88 said:

Just curious, where have you seen the 20 minute videos? I've only seen the Bethesda 3 minutes of alpha gameplay.

I actually found about 20 minutes of footage on the release day of the Alpha uploaded on YouTube.
Sadly, it's PS4 footage, so you can't really get a good glimpse of how it'll play out on PC, and the player's pretty awful, but it's better than nothing.

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sleepii said:

My criticism is mostly towards the comments, not the game itself. I think its kinda sad that the reddit community and other uninformed gamers and the shitty ass media websites are immediately jumping the gun saying its like quake or its like UT. In case people don't know or understand and simplying saying this because the game "looks-like" one of the two, doesn't mean it actually is anywhere near in comparison. Having played quakelive at a high level for a while now, this game is nothing like it. In fact it is SLOW AS SHIT compared to quake and theres NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, so lets stop comparing two completely different games or trying to relate them just because they came from the same developer. Quake had strafe jumping and ability to speed up your movement. No such feature in this game. So I hate to say it but I'm not seeing where the QL/UT comparison comes from. It seems like just a hype thing people tend to use to sell the game. And if you think this game's like quake, go ahead and jump into a quakelive ffa game and see how long you last and you'll understand the difficulty of quake compared to this game.

If anything, doom's been further simplified so people feel competitive from the start rather than having to scrounge around for guns and armour before fighting (which is what Marty said at Qcon this year) and THAT IS FINE, but I'm seeing a lot of blanket statements like "oh its just like quake 3" or "oh this feels exactly the same as quake". Please go play quake before saying that. Also the guns are a lot more nerfed than they were in either quake or UT. There really isn't a gun that can oneshot you or take you off the map very quickly and easily. Rockets are REALLY nerfed compared to quake with far less knockback, and the static cannon/shock rifle dont do enough damage from the start to be justified as a railgun.

I think I said this before but this game isn't meant for the small niche hardcore community, its meant for the average couch potato on xbox or ps4 who just wants to jump in and have a ton of fun without really doing a whole lot and thats totally fine. this game's meant to make money by appealing to a broader audience, not please a few thousand.


This is why I love Doomworld. I think it's funny how people around here are more sensible than people from other gaming forums that cry that the game is not exactly like Doom 2/Quake 3.

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The Civ said:

I actually found about 20 minutes of footage on the release day of the Alpha uploaded on YouTube.
Sadly, it's PS4 footage, so you can't really get a good glimpse of how it'll play out on PC, and the player's pretty awful, but it's better than nothing.


Ahh ok. It must have been taken down. All I'm seeing is the 3 min released alpha footage all over.

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FLAW_88 said:

Ahh ok. It must have been taken down. All I'm seeing is the 3 min released alpha footage all over.

I actually downloaded it the second it went up.
I've got all 20 minutes of it, and I could really upload all I want, since I'm not in the alpha/beta in the first place, but I don't know Doomworld's stance on sharing that stuff.

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It probably looks generic to a lot of folks. I'm not 100% on the player design, but what I've seen looks like exactly the sort of multiplayer I want. I hope there's some hell or gothic-themed maps.

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The Civ said:

I actually downloaded it the second it went up.
I've got all 20 minutes of it, and I could really upload all I want, since I'm not in the alpha/beta in the first place, but I don't know Doomworld's stance on sharing that stuff.

Do it and the FBI will be all over your ass. Probably even CIA.

You should up load it though. They took it down from youtubes. There was also a good PC version taken down as well.

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They are right, Doom 3 feels like Quake 3 .

Been inviting people through steam and playing it with them all the time, It's played just like Classic Doom, the only differences are the maps and quality, However i'm really enjoying The mods (especially that new one called MCS) .

Some deathmatch custom maps loaded on servers are pretty cool .

I Believe that the reason why there's not too many players online is the Dirty Netcode .

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sleepii said:

btw that 20+ min gameplay is on dailymotion


Can confirm.

Before people criticize the feel of the game based on that 20 min leak bear in mind that the video is at 30 FPS. It feels completely different from the trailer.

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Sure, lets start ranting about a game that hasnt even been released. Whats that? We can rant about a 3 minute video/ 20 minute video? it. is. a. video.

There is a difference between watching gameplay and playing the game!

Lets wait until its released, alright?
no, this is not being directed to Doomworld, but the whiners... no offense.

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FLAW_88 said:

Iv'e noticed a lot of hate (not necessarily here or from actual written reviews) but just gamers in general. Saying it looks boring, slow and unimaginative. Or simply calling it Quake or UT. I really don't understand. A huge portion of the hating I've read makes zero sense. Personally I think it looks fresh as hell and a lot of fun. I think it will do really well as of right now. Can't wait.

What does everyone else think from what's been shown so far?

zero sense huh? that means we ignore it.

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Watched the 20+ min alpha and it runs 6v6 TDM very well, didn't notice any problems, so i was wondering if its safe to assume that the game could handle at least 11 enemies on screen at once in singleplayer mode?

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Voros said:

There is a difference between watching gameplay and playing the game!

We all know this is just a gameplay video that doesn't reflect the final product, Lots of things might get scrapped right before the release just like what happened for Doom 3 ?

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

We all know this is just a gameplay video that doesn't reflect the final product, Lots of things might get scrapped right before the release just like what happened for Doom 3 ?

exactly. it is only an alpha.

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

Nobody said that .

Closed Alpha right?

overall, not the final thing.

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Tbh, I am bothered by the fact that people keep claiming "Console's don't hold PC gaming back" and then this kinda stuff is claimed to be like Quake :/

If people wanna see something that is designed for the PC from the get go and about how much the difference is between PC and Console fps? Then compare this to Reflex. Reflex is a fastpaced Quake3 Challenge ProMode Arena mod successor and now in early access on steam. In reflex you can go from 0ups to 900ups (speed indicator) in less than 2 seconds. That is example of truly fastpaced and designed for PC.

I have a feeling that strafejumping support will never be added to Doom 4 and that is sad.

To OP: I guess because people expect the mp to be as shallow as todays cod/halo/bf style modern military shooters, because most of them weren't yet born when Quake 3 and UT99 were rolling at their strongest.

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Doom deathmatch has never been about jumping, and has always been about moving fast (faster than Quake!) and this looks like the exact opposite on both accounts.. But, Demonsphere said it was good.. So I'm hesitantly excited.

I've always been a Doom Dm fanatic, but never huge on Quake.

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Doomkid said:

Doom deathmatch has never been about jumping, and has always been about moving fast (faster than Quake!) and this looks like the exact opposite on both accounts.. But, Demonsphere said it was good.. So I'm hesitantly excited.

I've always been a Doom Dm fanatic, but never huge on Quake.


...its nowhere near faster than quake. you'll get giggity just like everyone else doubleclicking the doom icon and listening to the music and the rest of the nostalgic stuff

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Hofmann said:

Watched the 20+ min alpha and it runs 6v6 TDM very well, didn't notice any problems, so i was wondering if its safe to assume that the game could handle at least 11 enemies on screen at once in singleplayer mode?

There is enough enemies on the game from time to time...according to the reveal videos.
To have hordes of enemies on a high tech 3D engine, would destroy our consoles and PCs...
Wait... That means horrible gameplay on fanmade megamaps...

If it can handle 12 users in a match at 30-60 FPS, then the demons wont be too much of a problem, since they are AI.

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What are you talking about ? We're not on 90s anymore, we've got capable devices to run that kind of games, Like Unreal Tournament 4, Idtech6 won't be as great as Unreal engine but it should still be. Able to handle everything you said , AI wouldn't affect FPS, and Too many enemies wouldn't be a problem as long as they don't pass 32 per field .

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

What are you talking about ? We're not on 90s anymore, we've got capable devices to run that kind of games, Like Unreal Tournament 4, Idtech6 won't be as great as Unreal engine but it should still be. Able to handle everything you said , AI wouldn't affect FPS, and Too many enemies wouldn't be a problem as long as they don't pass 32 per field .


It's not about AI, it's about the number of polygons, shadows, particle effects on screen.

One of the things I noticed is that the mancubus no longer fires a huge volley of fireballs. The reason I think is because it's too taxing on consoles AND PCs. Remember that they want constant 60 FPS.

10-15 monsters at the same time is more than enough for big fights. 6-8 is good for most fights.

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I really don't think it would be too taxing on PCs and the console generation has advanced by a fair amount. :/

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DooM_RO said:

It's not about AI, it's about the number of polygons, shadows, particle effects on screen.

One of the things I noticed is that the mancubus no longer fires a huge volley of fireballs. The reason I think is because it's too taxing on consoles AND PCs. Remember that they want constant 60 FPS.

10-15 monsters at the same time is more than enough for big fights. 6-8 is good for most fights.

Wasnt that how Quake had it? Lower amount of enemies? And it was 3D also.

Plus, the AI is the information used to handle those polygons, lighting and etc. So, technically, lower amount of AI information leads to lower usage of resources. Get it?

Also, didnt id say they were aiming for 30 fps? I can see why.

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