Doom/Quake question

[DarthMaul]

Last night one of my buddies remarked that Quake is a ripoff of Doom. I don't quite believe what he said. They're both popular FPS's in their own rights, and I know there's similarities and differences between them. I had viewed a topic about this earlier, but I don't know how old it is and don't want to revive it. What I do know about Doom is that it isn't fully 3D like Quake, and that you face more monsters and get more ammo in a level than you do in Quake, and that Quake allows rooms over rooms. Even though Quake was Doom's successor, I don't think it was based upon it.

[Jaxxoon R]

Doom's just a ripoff of Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss.

[snapshot]

Well, been hearing this from time to time and i have to say they're both different from each other, while they have some similarities in weapons, powerups ... etc, they still have a different Art Style, Storyline .... etc .

* The first and most notable differences is that in Doom you fight Hellish demons while in Quake you fight Aliens .
* Doom has better Melee weps (Chainsaw,Fists ... etc) .
* And Doom was much colorful if compared to Any Quake game released :) .

[T-Rex]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

* The first and most notable differences is that in Doom you fight Hellish demons while in Quake you fight Aliens .

Wrong, the monsters from Quake aren't aliens, unless you're referring to the Strogg from Quake 2. They're actually demons just like the ones from Doom, but the differences between them is that Doom's demons are the forces of Hell, while Quake's are from another dimension.

[scifista42]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

* The first and most notable differences is that in Doom you fight Hellish demons while in Quake you fight Aliens .

Even if it was true (it isn't, as T-Rex said above), it wouldn't make any "notable difference" in my view. They're "exotic" bad guys, possibly replacable by any other kind of "exotic" bad guys one can think off. Their purpose is to add "cool factor" to the game. Their form / origin / background story doesn't matter much at all.

[40oz]

It was John Romeros idea to make Quake more special and unique. He was fired after development was going nowhere and they had to make up for lost time by tacking on a Doom-like design so that they could release it before similar games would come out and make Carmacks engine look outdated.

Quake is not without its unique features but in a sense, your friend is right, if you played Doom, you'll have no trouble adapting to Quake.

[Voros]

DarthMaul said:

Last night one of my buddies remarked that Quake is a ripoff of Doom. I don't quite believe what he said. They're both popular FPS's in their own rights, and I know there's similarities and differences between them. I had viewed a topic about this earlier, but I don't know how old it is and don't want to revive it. What I do know about Doom is that it isn't fully 3D like Quake, and that you face more monsters and get more ammo in a level than you do in Quake, and that Quake allows rooms over rooms. Even though Quake was Doom's successor, I don't think it was based upon it.

Quake is a recreation of Doom in a conpletely new form.
Quake was its own series, so it was not related to Doom, AT ALL (story wise of course).

Your friend needs to learn to respect Quake and Doom as equals.
Quake was an awesome shooter with a more sadistic look.
Doom was the game that had low graphics compared to Quake, but it was immensely fun and colourful.

Quake is unique. Doom is special.
They both have large communities with tons of mods and special sourceports.

You might as well say Doom was a rip off of Wolfenstein 3D!

I love Doom for its durability on modern machines, cause I love hordes of monsters.

Quake was kind of like a survival shooter, in smal hordes of creatures.
Doom was more like the ultimate slaughterfest game! IMO.

If your friend is reading this, tell him I'm sorry if he was offended.

Long live Doom and Quake!

PS- I never understood Quake's monster design, like the ogre. Shambler's fine.

[snapshot]

Bring a Marine and Robonize it and you'll get a Quake 2 Enemy :) .

[purist]

'Rip-off' is the wrong term to use. The same company made both games so plagiarism doesn't apply and the game more sufficiently more advanced (arguably as much as from Wolf to Doom) and differently designed for fans not to be short changed.

Funny how id had to scale back Romero's grand ideas for Quake to get the game out in a similar fashion that they had to with Tom Hall's original design for Doom. Even Wolf3D was initially planned to have stealth elements that were removed to stream line it.

[SavageCorona]

That's like saying Doom 2 is a ripoff of Doom 1. It's made by the same people who want to make the same stuff. What else do you want?

[Voros]

SavageCorona said:

That's like saying Doom 2 is a ripoff of Doom 1. It's made by the same people who want to make the same stuff. What else do you want?

Doom 4.

If its id Software, its not ripped off.

[40oz]

purist said:

Funny how id had to scale back Romero's grand ideas for Quake to get the game out in a similar fashion that they had to with Tom Hall's original design for Doom. Even Wolf3D was initially planned to have stealth elements that were removed to stream line it.

That's a pretty interesting point of comparison. Its says Romero and Hall rekindled their friendship around that time too.

[SavageCorona]

It's actually pretty funny how id start out with grand ambitions then tone it down to a regular FPS

[Da Werecat]

John Romero said:

Every id game proceeded just like this before! Carmack makes a revolutionary engine, then we put a revolutionary game design on top of it.

Well, if by that he meant coming up with a bunch of super ambitious ideas and then scrapping them in favor of something manageable-yet-effective, then it's exactly how Quake turned out in the end.

[scalliano]

Da Werecat said:

Well, if by that he meant coming up with a bunch of super ambitious ideas and then scrapping them in favor of something manageable-yet-effective, then it's exactly how Quake turned out in the end.

And we all know what happened when Romero did get to implement his super-amibitious, awesome ideas ..

[Tritnew]

I never saw Quake as an rip-off of DOOM, more or less an successor and spin-off. Since Quake has Demons from an different dimension, but I guess Hell Is kinda like that.

[Noiser]

scalliano said:

And we all know what happened when Romero did get to implement his super-amibitious, awesome ideas ..

But it's not as if id was going that well too. I mean, the sales remained because of their reputation, but after the first Quake the company only declined in quality IMO. Quake 2 is mediocre at best. Quake 3 is awesome, but nothing more then a Unreal rip-off (ok, a really good rip-off).

Tritnew said:

I never saw Quake as an rip-off of DOOM, more or less an successor and spin-off. Since Quake has Demons from an different dimension, but I guess Hell Is kinda like that.

Makes sense. Quake looks more like a spiritual successor to me.

[Da Werecat]

It seems that id had abandoned the aforementioned simplification philosophy in their later SP games. Even though it wasn't exactly Half-Life, Quake 2 had lots of insignificant gimmicks and slower gameplay, showing the company's desire to move towards realism as opposed to arcade action. Much less drama during the development too, as far as I'm aware.

Doom 3 went further in that direction, and RAGE is a sandbox shooter with NPCs and racing elements - hardly a minimalistic game.

[Angry Saint]

I don't think Quake is a ripoff of Doom, because I see "ripoffs" as of inferior quality respect to the original source. Quake has for sure many ideas taken from Doom, but it has its own aesthetic and technical advancements (3d models!) so I see it more like an evolution of Doom.

[ChickenOrBeef]

Noiser said:

Quake 3 is awesome, but nothing more then a Unreal rip-off

Huh? Unreal Tournament released two days before Quake III. Unless you're talking about the original Unreal game, but I'm not sure how Quake III would be a rip-off of that game.

[HorrorMovieRei]

Duh, Doom is obviously a rip-off of Halo

[Noiser]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Huh? Unreal Tournament released two days before Quake III. Unless you're talking about the original Unreal game, but I'm not sure how Quake III would be a rip-off of that game.

You're right. But as far I as know, the UT concept started (as a extension) during "summer 1998". The earliest Q3 prototype is from March 1999. So I'm not quite sure.

But I like Quake III, anyway. And id deserves a free-pass since Doom\Quake 1 was one of the most cloned games ever.

[Marnetmar]

Doom is basically Dance Dance Revolution with guns.

[Tritnew]

Marnetmar said:

Doom is basically Dance Dance Revolution with guns.

Nice unnecessary meme.

[Deleted_Account]

I don't think it's a ripoff of Doom, if anything, it's a natural progression for id software. Yeah, they both feature shotguns, gateways and interdimensional invaders (more Lovecraftian inspired critters in regards to Quake), etc. But they also have their differences. The following Quake games went in different directions in regards to theme and style, but still retain that good old fashion FPS experience we Doomers love.

[RestlessRodent]

You are all wrong, Doom is Duck Hunt In Space.

[T-Rex]

purist said:

Funny how id had to scale back Romero's grand ideas for Quake to get the game out in a similar fashion that they had to with Tom Hall's original design for Doom. Even Wolf3D was initially planned to have stealth elements that were removed to stream line it.

Doom under Tom Hall's original design would have probably played like Rise of the Triad, which is a pretty awesome game. And yeah, all that fame and money from Doom must have gotten through Romero's head that he thought his grand design for Quake would be feasible. I heard a lot about Daikatana's infamy, and what I can about it is that the problem wasn't with the concept, but more like Romero's approach with it. He was trying so hard to outdo John Carmack, considering that Daikatana was originally going to use the Quake engine before Romero decided to switch to the Quake 2 engine after he saw the preview of it.

[Marnetmar]

Tritnew said:

Nice unnecessary meme.

How is that a meme?

[Technician]

Tom wants to take the FPS in a new direction. Fired. John wants to take the FPS in a new direction. Fired (for incompetence, I'll give Tom that).

Tritnew said:

Nice unnecessary meme.

Get a load of this guy!

[fraggle]

At the very least this doesn't match the normal meaning of "ripoff" as I understand the word. You could perhaps claim it's unoriginal.