Donnybrooking - An Icarus Tribute WAD Community Project

[Jaws In Space]

Welcome to Donnybrooking!



This project is going to be a 3 month long mapping session that will last from now until March 1st, with a final release date set for March 21st which is the 20th anniversary of Icarus. The goal here is to make maps that are tributes to, love it or hate it, Icarus Map08 Donnybrook by David J Hill. All submitted maps should have a Stucco & Metal heavy texture scheme, & of course there should be an extreme puzzle aspect in order to obtain the yellow key. Mapping format will be Boom.

Anyone is welcome to join the project & make as many maps as your heard desires. In addition to mappers I will also need help with other various aspects of the project I will not be able to do myself, such as making custom title pics & other various things. Custom midis are welcome, but only if they are from Icarus or if they are specifically made for this project. If you have any additional Metal or Stucco variants that you want to include that would be fine as well, these included in the texture pack were the only ones that I knew about.

Here is a link to the custom texture pack the project will be using, it contains additional Stucco, Pancase, & Metal texture variations.
Here is a link to Icarus, we can use textures from Icarus, but we can't take them out of the WAD due to the permissions as stated in the textfile.

Okay I think that's it, if you have any further questions just ask, Happy Mapping!

[Angry Saint]

I will download the textures pack. If I am inspired by it, I may map for this project!

[yakfak]

heya, what mapping format do you have in mind... vanilla, limit-removing, something snazzier?

[Suitepee]

An entire community project based off the worst map in Icarus....

Sounds fun! How many ways will people improve/exaggerate the garbage of bad ol' Donnybrook!

[Jaws In Space]

yakfak said:

heya, what mapping format do you have in mind... vanilla, limit-removing, something snazzier?

Oops, I did forget something. We'll go with Boom compatible just so there are more actions for mappers to use in their puzzle.

Suitepee said:

An entire community project based off the worst map in Icarus....

More like the best map in Icarus.

[40oz]

^ Hey now, Donnybrook aint so bad!

I like this project idea because I too have been seriously embracing the idea of implementing puzzles into my maps, so I'd imagine that this wad would be a good point of reference for puzzle-solving oriented map design. When I come across a map I like for a peculiar reason I have a tendency to keep a pen and paper handy and jot down feelings I had while playing which helps me identify the good and bad things about a map.

Doom isn't a very naturally good platform for designing puzzles. Most puzzles are a 1-2 thing. Press switch that opens door, go through it. Press switch that lowers lift, ride it, etc. The other part of that is that sometimes its quicker to just press everything in sight and see what happens. There are puzzles that require thinking and others that require precise or quick moving, and while the latter isn't bad, I'm not particularly thrilled with that sort of trial and error replayability in puzzles. However, the most recent engaging puzzle solving I've encountered in a was was in Iditarod,



The player wants to get to the goal C. There's a lift at A, and there's a lift at B. The player can activate lift A by pressing use on it, and go up a level to the section at point B, but lift B requires the player to press the yellow switch below. To solve it, the player has to first activate lift A, and wait for the lift to descend. The longer the player waits to press the switch before riding lift A back up, the more time he will secure for himself to reach lift B, because both lifts follow the same time-based pattern. This puzzle is repeated a good number of times throughout the wad though. I'd imagine a sequence of these style puzzles can be fun though.

But before anyone goes ahead and creates a map as fast as they can where you have to press switch A to get to switch B, and then press switch B to get C, then D, E, F, G, H, I J to get access to Yellow Key in that sequential order, its probably worth making some pointers that will keep puzzle solving engaging and not into the boring horseshit territory that some 1994 wads get into.

The good things about the Yellow Key puzzle in Donnybrook are:

• It's the most complex security measure in probably any Doom map ever.
  
• Your adversary is the map, more so than the monsters in it.
  
• You can see your end goal. The tantalizing yellow key perched in the center of the room makes all the trouble worth it.
  

HOWEVER, there are negative things about Donnybrook as well. The most important is that it has a severe case of pressing switches and not knowing what they do. Many of the switches don't clearly demonstrate what their use is and it's not very engaging. There's even a part where a shadow is cast on a switch, splitting the switch plate in two, so in desperation the player may try to operate both sides of the switch at different times to see if they each do something different. The other negative, which may be kind of subjective, is that it uses that teleport design where it takes you somewhere different depending on what angle you enter the teleport from. Especially because the central room design is symmetrical, its hard to orient yourself and understand which part takes you where, which makes navigation a nightmare.

I've studied some puzzles in Doom, such as the 4-sided skullswitch pillars in E3M4 House of Pain, or exit area in MAP17: Tenements. BF_THUD!.wad (and anything else by Chris Klie) is also a pretty good reference point for studying puzzles too. Here are some guidelines that will help make puzzle solving engaging for the player.

1. The player needs to be able to see his end goal. The player needs to go into a puzzle and first see what he wants, or what he wants to achieve. The puzzle in Donnybrook holds the players attention because at any time he can return to the main room and see that he has not yet acquired access to that yellow key.

2. Puzzles in Doom don't always mean tacking on more switches and more teleports. Puzzles that abuse an abundance of switches and teleports often overwhelm the player and cause them to panic and try to do everything at once. It's too convoluted to explore what every single thing does.

3. When requiring a set of actions to get from point A to point B, there should also be things that reverse those actions, which will require the player to think critically. For example, a switch could open a door into a new area, but if the player crosses a bridge, it shuts the door. Now the player has to think of a way to get through the door without using the bridge.

4. If there are switches in your map, (and in a puzzle map, there will almost always inevitably be switches) The player should always be able to easily see the action the switch does. The puzzle element of being able to see what your action does is making it unclear about how the action gets the player closer to his goal.

5. Items and monsters are indicators of progress. If the player does something that gets him closer to the goal, you can give him some health bonuses, but its better to give him monsters to kill to prevent him from being bored to death!

Hopefully that helps! I look forward to seeing your puzzles!!

[DeathevokatioN]

Suitepee said:

An entire community project based off the worst map in Icarus....

Die in hellfi... ermm.. I mean I respectfully disagree with your opinion dear sir. :P

[General Rainbow Bacon]

If this is to be a puzzle wad, zdoom is more on point being that you can have lots of different actions happening at once and there being more variety.

[Varis Alpha]

i can't say i get the reasoning behind wanting to make an entire megawad based off the premise of one single map (and one a lot of people dislike, too), but eh, that's just me.

[Jaws In Space]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

If this is to be a puzzle wad, zdoom is more on point being that you can have lots of different actions happening at once and there being more variety.

No, I was considering Vanilla compatibility as an even more fitting tribute to Icarus, but I figure there's enough vanilla projects going around right now. ZDoom is just too far removed, if I wanted to do ZDoom I'd just have started a puzzle project with no real theme behind it.

Doomhuntress said:

i can't say i get the reasoning behind wanting to make an entire megawad based off the premise of one single map (and one a lot of people dislike, too), but eh, that's just me.

Perhaps Donnybrook isn't as hated as you think it is

Jaws In Space said:

My 5 favorite maps were 16, 19, 1, 8, & 21

7hm said:

Maps that I really enjoyed were: 6, 8, 11, 15, 19, 20, 23, 32.

Magnusblitz said:

Best maps:
MAP01 Shuttlecraft
MAP08 Donnybrook
MAP11 Feeding Frenzy
MAP16 Bootcamp
MAP25 Another Fine Mess

vdgg said:

Nice, same as mine. I could maybe swap MAP11 or 16 with MAP23. Showing support for the so much hated MAP08!

[Capellan]

Jaws In Space said:

Perhaps Donnybrook isn't as hated as you think it is

Or perhaps it is.

Capellan said:

My own special hell is being forced to play a megawad that is nothing but 16 copies each of this map and STRAIN map21.

4shockblast said:

Map 08

Fuck this map.

Sui Generis said:

MAP08 - "Donnybrook” by David “Mentzer” Hill
I fall firmly into the "this map sucks" camp.

Wildmajora said:

Map 8

Ugh. This map was horrible.

SoundofDoomDoors said:

fuck this map, and fuck FDAing it

(though personally these days my pick for "worst map in Icarus" is map30)

[DeathevokatioN]

Doomhuntress said:

i can't say i get the reasoning behind wanting to make an entire megawad based off the premise of one single map (and one a lot of people dislike, too), but eh, that's just me.

He didn't say anything about hitting the arbituary 32 level mark though, I think the project's goal is to mostly aim to create something that's inspired by the quirkiness and puzzle box nature this map has... and since there are very, VERY few maps that follow the kind of progression displayed in said map I can see why someone who might enjoy this style of map would want to give it a go... not everyone will enjoy the outcome, and that's okay, but there are others who this will appeal to, and a lot of people dislike Hexen but no matter how many dislike it there's still a cult following and a Hexen wad ended up with a cacoward last year, so maybe the outcome is more palletable than the map itself was. :P

[wallabra]

Ok, this is the first area of my entry.
Also in which tag are the Stucco textures in GZDoom Builder texture window?

[wallabra]

Sorry for the double post, finished my entry (and found the Stucco textures).

[Jaws In Space]

Gustavo6046 said:

Sorry for the double post, finished my entry (and found the Stucco textures).

I'm going to have to reject this map as it doesn't have any major puzzle aspects to it, which is the main goal of the project.

[wallabra]

Oh, but I will find inspiration... ACS?

[AD_79]

Gustavo6046 said:

Oh, but I will find inspiration... ACS?

ACS does not exist in Boom. If you need scripting of sorts you'll have to make do with voodoo doll conveyer "scripts" that can be built in the actual map.

[Devalaous]

Icar2015 gave me hope for an Icarus project springing up...but this isn't what I had in mind

[SavageCorona]

Oh lawdy puzzle maps. I'm not sure I can actually map for this but I sure will have fun playing them, especially if Jaws is mapping.

[Angry Saint]

I both played the original donnybrook and checked the textures resources. They both inspire me.

The level is compact but fun to play, even if I had to check on the level editor how to solve the yellow key puzzle.

The textures are really nice.

I will try to find some time to map for this project: creating a puzzle will be a big challenge for me.

[yakfak]

you don't even really need to worry about conveyors and stuff... you can throw together some very complicated puzzles just using a few control sectors, door close lines and instant floor height change lines. They're like the essential puzzle logic gates, just plan out what you want to do with them first. =P

i'm joining in anyway, probably with a limit-removing style level.

[wallabra]

This CP should probably be revived...

[Angry Saint]

I agree.

I worked today on my puzzle map. It is strange. Usually I am much more interested in the architecture of the level, this time instead I designed a bunch of void rooms just to check the puzzles I had in mind.

Now I will have to add details and textures and monsters.

[Capellan]

Gustavo6046 said:

This CP should probably be revived...

It's a 3 month project that started a week ago. Suggesting it is in need of revival is perhaps a tiny bit premature.

[Angry Saint]

WIP

[Jaws In Space]

Looks pretty good. Judging by the openness so far, are there going to be a lot of monsters in your map?

[7hm]

Cool! I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Map 8 was a ton of fun to (mostly) figure out.

Also, solid analysis of the map's strengths and weaknesses 40oz.

[Angry Saint]

Jaws In Space said:

Looks pretty good. Judging by the openness so far, are there going to be a lot of monsters in your map?

As much as possible.

[Pirx]

a project based on that puzzle map, that's amusing. i was a bit in between when we played icarus, i liked the map, but had little patience for that puzzle.

[Angry Saint]

Here it is: Parapiglia

http://www.mediafire.com/download/wz5t6hw4gz4yp57/parapiglia001.wad

I tested it only in Zdoom; there is a problem with the resource pack which makes it crash in prboom, so I couldn't test my map in boom.

Is this project still active? Any other mapping for it?