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Azuruish

About Skills/Difficulty

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Pegg said:

Doom 4 UV better be harder than doom2 UV if they go that route then. And nightmare being +fast alone is kinda boring. It needs to be harder than original nightmare because people managed to beat it after all!


That's a fucking dumb thing to say. By that reasoning, games should get harder every time until they are unbeatable and unplayable, because people can beat them!

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Enforcer said:

In GI interview Marty said that there will be an ULTRA-NIGHTMARE difficulty!

Yes,
but it will never match NIGHTMARE in classic Doom, and you know it.

But, I would like like to see why it is called U-N anyway.

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Voros said:

Yes,
but it will never match NIGHTMARE in classic Doom, and you know it.

But, I would like like to see why it is called U-N anyway.



One. .maybe two hits kills you. .No checkpoint saves. .enemies do not drop HP or/and ammo. .Now that would be sweet!

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Voros said:

Yes,
but it will never match NIGHTMARE in classic Doom, and you know it.


literally how ridiculously easy and retardedly cheap do you even think it is for a modern game to mindlessly respawn each and every dead enemy in the vicinity every time you bother playing

edit, shit typo

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i don't want nightmare as it was in doom 2 and doom 1 i want UV fast istead, that is the perfect nightmare for me, the respawn is lame, if i kill you you're dead, period, the only respawn must be done from archville

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Enforcer said:

In GI interview Marty said that there will be an ULTRA-NIGHTMARE difficulty!

Nice. It would be interesting to find out how to unlock it...

Amph said:

i don't want nightmare as it was in doom 2 and doom 1 i want UV fast instead, that is the perfect nightmare for me, the respawn is lame, if i kill you you're dead, period, the only respawn must be done from archville

I agree, the respawning in Nightmare! is a bit too much. But the gamers thought Doom 1 was too easy, even on UV. So they wanted an extra challenge, they got it... ;)

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BluePineapple72 said:

It would be interesting to see a difficulty that has hydra like enemies: kill one enemy, two more take its place

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I really hope they spend a little more time on the different difficulty levels then what they haven openly talked about up till now.

I mean:

- One hit kills (simple dmg increase)
- Less or no checkpoints

Those both sound incredibly lazy and also quite boring. You can only do so much with damage increase before it breaks the game instead of having it up the challenge in an interesting way.

I would love for them to up the difficulty in a manner such as this.

- Simply more enemies as in the original Doom
- Higher threshold for painframes (roar in pain only at 50points of dmg instead of 20)
- Shorter recovery animations (for example; recover after jump, recover after attack/reload)
- Higher threshold before infighting is triggered
- Shorter windup/tells for attacks
- Prefer more damaging attacks over lighter attacks (imps throw more direct fireballs instead of arced)

But I am afraid this is asking a lot. I am not really expecting this. I would already be quite happy if the monster count was simply increased with each difficulty and they were a tiny bit faster.

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Enforcer said:

One. .maybe two hits kills you. .No checkpoint saves. .enemies do not drop HP or/and ammo. .Now that would be sweet!


The game was designed in order to make enemies drop ammo and HP. And it is a strategy to have certain moments in the game in which monsters appear nonstop until you trigger a certain event or solve some puzzle. Modern FPS/TPS uses regenerating health because there are lots of moments like this, facing enemies nonstop while classic doom has a fixed number of enemies, hence the fixed number of health. The only exception is the 30th level of Doom 2.

So instead of having regenerating health for this situation of nonstop enemies, they decided to make enemies drop health and ammo.

I don't like the nightmare of classic doom because it makes you run and finish the level faster instead of facing the monsters. That's why I prefer the nighmare of D3 which makes you face the monsters in order to use the soul cube to get health.

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That's a speedrun. You cannot use that as any kind of metric on how a game is designed because a speedrun is specifically put together to break the game to make it as fast as possible.

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AirRaid said:

That's a speedrun. You cannot use that as any kind of metric on how a game is designed because a speedrun is specifically put together to break the game to make it as fast as possible.


It was like this I finished D2 in nightmare, memorizing the level and taking the shortest route until the end, avoiding 90% of the monsters. off course I took much more time.

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Kaskaum said:

The game was designed in order to make enemies drop ammo and HP. And it is a strategy to have certain moments in the game in which monsters appear nonstop until you trigger a certain event or solve some puzzle. Modern FPS/TPS uses regenerating health because there are lots of moments like this, facing enemies nonstop while classic doom has a fixed number of enemies, hence the fixed number of health. The only exception is the 30th level of Doom 2.

So instead of having regenerating health for this situation of nonstop enemies, they decided to make enemies drop health and ammo.

I don't like the nightmare of classic doom because it makes you run and finish the level faster instead of facing the monsters. That's why I prefer the nighmare of D3 which makes you face the monsters in order to use the soul cube to get health.


Yeah. .well you didn't have to explain how the new game works :) I'm quite aware. But there is still ammo, armor and HP on the ground that you can pick up. .So imagine that you have to deal with all of the monsters using only these. .It could work!

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Enforcer said:

Yeah. .well you didn't have to explain how the new game works :) I'm quite aware. But there is still ammo, armor and HP on the ground that you can pick up. .So imagine that you have to deal with all of the monsters using only these. .It could work!


It will be like classic Doom nightmare, but I don't know if running and avoiding monsters will work here because we don't know how fast the monsters are on nightmare. We only know you will be much slower compared to classic doom always running.

Not to mention here you need to aim properly while classic Doom there is not much problem at aiming, since there is no up-down aim mechanic. So you will shot much less monsters at once as you used to do in Classic. A single shot of double shotgun could wipe 10+ monsters at once in front of you cleaning the way to run fast through the level in nightmare. Doom 2016 doesn't have this absurd shotgun anymore.

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Most of you probably know this but:



and

https://youtu.be/A12sET6EXKI?list=PLB60F5590E713F60F&t=210

That beautiful man being himself among the smooth talkers is Robert Duffy by the way. Worked on the original Doom and is holding the position of Chief Technology Officer at id currently.

Yes I also posted this at r/doom in a similar thread. :)

Oh and might as well link this:

https://youtu.be/NrIMb-ro-UI?list=PLB60F5590E713F60F&t=999

Its the community questions with the time where Marty talks a bit about difficulty.

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Kaskaum said:

It will be like classic Doom nightmare, but I don't know if running and avoiding monsters will work here because we don't know how fast the monsters are on nightmare. We only know you will be much slower compared to classic doom always running.

Not to mention here you need to aim properly while classic Doom there is not much problem at aiming, since there is no up-down aim mechanic. So you will shot much less monsters at once as you used to do in Classic. A single shot of double shotgun could wipe 10+ monsters at once in front of you cleaning the way to run fast through the level in nightmare. Doom 2016 doesn't have this absurd shotgun anymore.


Still it could work. .It would be quite a challenge. .And you would have to perform Glory Kills not to gain ammo but to save that extra few shotgun blasts :) I don't know. .Just an idea. .I think it would be pretty cool and hard as hell. .Just like I like it :) ULTRA-NIGHTMARE was already confirmed. .so what else can they do?? Just reduce the amount of damage you can take even more??

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I don't expect DOOM4 to have any differences between difficulty levels except 'you take more damage'. That's objectively the cheapest and the most boring way of doing it but hey, it requires no effort. It effectively leads to unfair and frustrating gameplay where you pretty much have to know every encounter to survive. Sure, it's hard. But it's not hard in a challenging way. More like: do you have too much free time and enough patience to trudge through it?

That's why I've given up on playing new shooters at anything but Medium. After that it just becomes annoying.

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But they've already confirmed there are differences other than that between at least some of the difficulties. Nightmare mode removes mid-level checkpoints, for instance.

Why are you so desperate to assume the worst when there is evidence otherwise?

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I only pointed out that I don't expect anything more. Is there anything other than no checkpoints on NM confirmed though? Because that's really not a game changer. Honestly, unless there are different enemy lineups between difficulty settings or something, it'll be primarily about damage received. Speaking from experience with other games here. Developers really don't care about difficulty levels too much in most cases (unless it's XCOM, Diablo, Dishonored, Thief, etc).

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Touchdown said:

Is there anything other than no checkpoints on NM confirmed though? Because that's really not a game changer.


I agree and as far as I know, no nothing else has been confirmed.

Touchdown said:

Honestly, unless there are different enemy lineups between difficulty settings or something, it'll be primarily about damage received.


I really do hope for different enemy lineups at a minimum. I am fairly worried about that though because it is manual labor (as in something the level designer has to do) compared to a relatively simple code change in the case of a damage increase.

If this does get implemented its also puts more stress on the user "mappers" that will use Snapmap to create levels where they will be expected to create multiple difficulty levels. Since they are going for accessibility this does not seem likely to me. I hope I am wrong though.

==

The only things I know about difficulty are from these sources:

How Doom Combat Will Test Your Skills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A12sET6EXKI&index=13&list=PLB60F5590E713F60F

Hugo Martin:

"If you play on hard, one hit (and) you are dead."

Robert Duffy:

"Nightmare mode brings a completely new level to all of this"

"Nightmare (mode) will beat your ass down"



Answering Community Questions On Doom
https://youtu.be/NrIMb-ro-UI?t=999

Marty Stratton:

"The difficulty stuff is certainly not to be dismissed."

"Its a different experience to play it on like hurt me plenty versus nightmare."

"You approach things completely differently. Its a blast actually, its really fun to take that next step."

"Our regular modes, our lower tier modes, have checkpoints."

"Nightmare you only get checkpoints at the mission loads so its even a greater challenge."

"We have an ultra nightmare mode that is a distinct challenge."

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DooM_RO said:

Or an Imp is randomly replaced with an Imp variant...this could work in Classic Doom as well. Imagine, an imp replaced with a stronger imp that uses a skin from the Realm667 repository.

Its called Complex Doom
Almost all Doom online uses Complex Doom...IDK how you don't know this

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"Nightmare you only get checkpoints at the mission loads so its even a greater challenge."


Remind me, DooM don't have save-load system? Only checkpoints?
I don't want to joke about consoles, but, are you serious?

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HavoX said:

Nice. It would be interesting to find out how to unlock it...

I agree, the respawning in Nightmare! is a bit too much. But the gamers thought Doom 1 was too easy, even on UV. So they wanted an extra challenge, they got it... ;)


UV fast easy? i remember that UV fast is actually very hard on classic doom, not talking about UV standard, but with the -fast argument

Kaskaum said:

It will be like classic Doom nightmare, but I don't know if running and avoiding monsters will work here because we don't know how fast the monsters are on nightmare. We only know you will be much slower compared to classic doom always running.

Not to mention here you need to aim properly while classic Doom there is not much problem at aiming, since there is no up-down aim mechanic. So you will shot much less monsters at once as you used to do in Classic. A single shot of double shotgun could wipe 10+ monsters at once in front of you cleaning the way to run fast through the level in nightmare. Doom 2016 doesn't have this absurd shotgun anymore.



well that because you were not using the up and down and the aiming, as i myself, i removed that thing of the past

i play classic doom with up and down, and with no auto aim crap, so you actually need to aim even in the old doom

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since most modern fps are too easy, I'll start on the highest available difficulty level (except it's that one where you need to start the game again when you die)

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LordTestes said:

I kid you not. Complex Doom is pretty awesome. The person reviewing it in the link below was pretty hard on it, but it actually took Doom to another experience with me when I tried it last year for the first time. The randomizer on it is pretty great IMO

https://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3890


he meant more the fact that you seem to legitimately think people here don't know about complex doom at this point

especially when it's fucking everywhere in doomseeker

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JAJA I can´t belive it, people complaining about Nightmare mode being too hard....

Well Nightmare mode is mean to be hard, it´s mean to be OVERKILL.

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