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40oz

Something you didn't know about Community Projects

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--- Attention Doomworld Members! This is an important announcement! ---

When a Community Project is announced, it should not be implied that said community project is intended to be a megawad. Just because successful projects with attractive mapping ideas tend to attract more maps than the project manager knows what to do with, it shouldn't be the norm to expect that a project idea depends on the unwritten rule that it should be 30+ maps. Community Project ideas can be just as successful as short episodes or even just a couple of maps. A community project with less than 30 maps is by no means incomplete.

It seems to pop up in many project threads someone who comments on the unlikely plausibility that a project idea is good enough to gain 30+ maps. As community projects are growing in popularity, the efforts of the community's mappers are being spread thin, so it's becoming more and more unlikely that Community projects will always successfully become entire megawads.

THIS IS OK

As someone who doesn't have a lot of time or patience to sit through an entire megawad of one particular mapping gimmick idea, I'm of the party that thinks this is a good thing. Community projects are more or less a call for help. Someone has an idea they believe is worth pursuing and they don't have the energy to create a series of maps on their own, and are requesting volunteers to help them. But clinging to the ambition that the wad can't be a success unless all 32 maps are replaced is ridiculous for the project manager, the mappers involved, and the players. Too many community projects get their share of help and crumble under the weight of unrealistic expectations and crippled enthusiasm, leaving a junkyard loaded with lost unfinished maps that never see the light of day. This is making more and more seemingly good ideas for projects unattractive for good mappers to map for.

If you are running a community project and you attracted less than 32 maps, thats OK! Wrap the thing up in a neat package and let us play it!

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Totally agree with you. CPs are currently getting wild on rules!
My goal with Dasbourg is not to make a megawad, just a couple, and it will be fun because some hell good maps were already submitted, just wish the CP was completed (with music) though...

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40oz said:

Community projects are more or less a call for help. Someone has an idea they believe is worth pursuing and they don't have the energy to create a series of maps on their own, and are requesting volunteers to help them.

And here I thought it was all for fun. Who'd have thought the dark conspiracy behind the NOVA project would be revealed too late. Far too late for now, at least.

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Agree too. I remember an old ZDoom community project that mashed all community contributions into a single giant map. Not all community projects has to have dozens of maps!

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Naan said:

Agree too. I remember an old ZDoom community project that mashed all community contributions into a single giant map. Not all community projects has to have dozens of maps!

This one?

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Jaxxoon R said:

Who'd havIe thouLght the daLrk conUspiracy bMehind thIe NOVA projNect wouAld be reveTaled too laIte.

Who told you the _I_l_l_u_m_i_n_a_t_i_ was involved? They're not. The _I_l_l_u_m_i_n_a_t_i_ aren't involved.

They .... are . not .-.. involved .--. in / any -- way .

Spoiler

I agree that community projects don't need to be 32 maps. One of the reasons why 50 Shades of Graytall is a good set of maps is because it doesn't drag on too long with its concept, or have maps that felt merely like filler. Plus, keeping a mapset short can ensure that it'll be released sometime this year instead of going through development hell like most (multi-authored) megawads experience)

Spoiler

www.doomworld
There are 13 characters in www.doomworld
"www" is hebrew for 666
9/11 was an inside job
The Lost Soul is the best enemy in Doom
Wake up sheeple

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There really needs to be some projects akin to the ZDCMP around here. I remember Glaice started one yonks ago but considering no-one could do any work while one person had the map it didn't quite pan out. Personally I reckon Mechadon would be the perfect person to start up a project like that considering his experience with both community projects and giant fuck-off maps. :)

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The amount of community projects that fail due to lack of motivation is unbelievable. No 32 maps, no chance of release. This is why projects such as Doom Millennium (which was nearly complete) TNT Devilution and others failed.

For example if the Pcorf Community Projects did not surpass 32 maps they still would have been released. They both exceeded 32 maps. The 2048 project had 49 maps, not the greatest of maps but many of them were still fun.

Creating a successful community project requires a simple approach but also requires motivation and action. It might not always bring the greatest of maps in the world but it is all about having fun when mapping. Keeping it simple, positive and maintaining the fun factor.

For example:

- Create a limit removing or boom compatible map for Doom 2 and save it as MAP01.
- Any theme, any style.
- You are free to use the texture wad provided, or just go with standard textures.
- If more than 32 maps received, they will go into a bonus episode.
- Final map ordering will be based on theme and amount of monsters.
- Deadline certain date, give at least 10 months.

I'd like to see more community projects inspired like that.

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pcorf said:

The amount of community projects that fail due to lack of motivation is unbelievable. No 32 maps, no chance of release. This is why projects such as Doom Millennium (which was nearly complete) TNT Devilution and others failed.



I'd just like to point out that TNT2 is in no way dead and that a startling amount of progress has been made over the past few months. So I'm not sure what you mean by "lack of motivation" in regards to that one.

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AD_79 said:

I'd just like to point out that TNT2 is in no way dead and that a startling amount of progress has been made over the past few months. So I'm not sure what you mean by "lack of motivation" in regards to that one.


I really admire your work AD_79 and I am not intending to bash you at all. Just expressing my concern with the all failed wasted episodes and I do blame motivation and lack of ideas for their failures.

I recall TNT2 Devilution started in 2009 and many maps were submitted but my original map ended up been in Doomed Space Wars as a secret level. Now I understand that Devilution has now become Revilution.

Sorry if I offended you.

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There is this obsession with the 32 maps format which is also quite common for new and naïve members, who usually want to “debut” with a megawad as their first effort.

I prefer community projects built around an idea (some gameplay type, texture set, etc…), like Mutiny or Donnybrooking, even if there are few maps. And by prefer I mean playing and mapping.

I think the one problem for many CP is that there is difficult in saying “now it’s finished and we can publish it”.

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40oz said:

A community project with less than 30 maps is by no means incomplete.

Well, I accept the right of existence of this statement, but nevertheless, it still gives me the vibe of unfinishedness.
Especially if one exceeds 20 maps, like that darn 1Monster.wad.
I know that not being able to hit Holy Magical Number of Sursolid 2 isn't particularly a blasphemy, but there's always - and will be - people that find it unnerving. And that's why one should restrain from the eagerness of launching several unfinishable CP's at one time.

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As a player I find I only devote 30-45 minute blocks of time to play in any one session; typically that's a good length for a 9-level episode of average maps or one really large map. It's unlikely I go back and continue to play a megawad past that first session unless it really grips me (btsx, scythe 2 etc).

Unless you think your project has something really WORTH playing, it's better to keep it relatively small compared to the common 32-map megawad formula.

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We need to see more episode sized community projects, be it 9 levels for Doom or 11 for Doom 2. Excess maps can be packed into a bonus miniwad as a separate file.

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I think sometimes a CP can also fail due to the host of the CP. Some people see a new mapper or less known one (or possibly just a shit mapper) and think "fuck that shit" and then just never bother with it.

Or is that just me?

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mrthejoshmon said:

Some people see a new mapper or less known one (or possibly just a shit mapper) and think "fuck that shit" and then just never bother with it.


Example of such CPs?

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pcorf said:

I really admire your work AD_79 and I am not intending to bash you at all. Just expressing my concern with the all failed wasted episodes and I do blame motivation and lack of ideas for their failures.

I recall TNT2 Devilution started in 2009 and many maps were submitted but my original map ended up been in Doomed Space Wars as a secret level. Now I understand that Devilution has now become Revilution.

Sorry if I offended you.


You don't understand though. Devilution and Revilution are separate projects.

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Glaice said:

We need to see more episode sized community projects, be it 9 levels for Doom or 11 for Doom 2. Excess maps can be packed into a bonus miniwad as a separate file.


I was thinking exactly the same. That is a good idea. It has been done before, but to a less extent than megawads.

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