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Mechadon

Updated statusbar numbers

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Hello! I decided to take a look at the latest build of Freedoom to check out some of the new stuff. I noticed that the current statusbar numbers were the old ones that I submitted a while back (when submitting the font replacements). I wasn't too happy with these, so I updated them so they would be easier to read at a glance. Unfortunately I think my post may have been overlooked since it was at the bottom of the page, so I wanted to make a proper thread and submit them again.


GIMP .XCF Image
PSD Image (note that GIMP couldn't export the Grain Merge layer function, so it won't look right).

Everything color translates properly for the ports that make use of that feature.

Download .wad here

Here's a quick glimpse of what it looks like against the vanilla Doom statusbar.


The screenshot is in Doom 2, but I did a quick test with the current Freedoom build and everything seems to work properly.

Thanks!

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Mechadon said:

Hello! I decided to take a look at the latest build of Freedoom to check out some of the new stuff. I noticed that the current statusbar numbers were the old ones that I submitted a while back (when submitting the font replacements).


Yeah, we reverted to those because the new ones weren't compatible with boom coloring.

I wasn't too happy with these, so I updated them so they would be easier to read at a glance. Unfortunately I think my post may have been overlooked since it was at the bottom of the page, so I wanted to make a proper thread and submit them again.

http://i.imgur.com/rLVbyxh.png
GIMP .XCF Image
PSD Image (note that GIMP couldn't export the Grain Merge layer function, so it won't look right).

Everything color translates properly for the ports that make use of that feature.

Download .wad here

Here's a quick glimpse of what it looks like against the vanilla Doom statusbar.
http://imgur.com/epVMicT

The screenshot is in Doom 2, but I did a quick test with the current Freedoom build and everything seems to work properly.

Thanks!


Thanks mang, this looks really good.

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That's odd, all versions of the statusbar numbers I submitted should have been color-translation friendly :/. Did someone make an edit of them and accidentally break the colors maybe?

I guess its not important in the long run if these new numbers get used. Glad you like the new numbers guys!

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Mechadon said:

That's odd, all versions of the statusbar numbers I submitted should have been color-translation friendly :/. Did someone make an edit of them and accidentally break the colors maybe?


Yeah, I think that's what happened

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Ah, ok then I understand. I don't keep track of the Freedoom going-ons much, so I must have missed that. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind :P

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No sweat Sodaholic :). You may know this already, but for future reference, the color translation for the HUD glyphs (Boom-style) will only work with the 16 saturated red colors (I forget the index numbers, but they DO NOT work with the red-white ramp...I've learned this the hard way in the past). Any other colors won't work unless you make some custom translation lumps.

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Mechadon, thanks for the update!

On another note, I've just noticed the cool armour sprites of yours:

Mechadon said:

Additionally, I had some unused sprites that I made for Supplice. So in order to give them a home, I decided to clean them up and use them!

The armors and health bonus are 100% from scratch. The armor bonus is a heavily edited Doomguy helmet, slightly inspired by the Doom 64 armor bonus. And the health packs are just edits of the vanilla sprites. I also added some slightly unused, yet animated, candle and candleabra sprites, also from Supplice.

If Freedoom gets forked as it is being discussed, perhaps you would consider donating those armour items for the classic replacement IWADs? raymoohawk created very nice armour graphics that fit well with the new art direction, while yours have a more classic look while being completely original.

Also, maybe you have some other item/decoration sprites made from scratch that you could submit to the project?

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Fork or no, Freedoom's goals aren't changing and it won't shift towards becoming more Doom-like.

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Why not? Do these armour sprites resemble their Doom counterparts more than Eriance's Super Shotgun the SSG from Doom? Where is the demarcation line?

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The fork proposal was mainly about gaining more freedom to get make a better game, without the baggage of Doom compatibility. Freedoom itself won't stop with that goal; don't think of it as "replacement IWADs" but rather an independent game that's also compatible with Doom mods.

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I'm not up to date on the going-ons like I said. But you guys are definitely more than welcome to use those armors or anything else I've made that's from-scratch :). I can dig around and see what other things I've made that might be useful. Just let me know!

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Mechadon said:

I'm not up to date on the going-ons like I said. But you guys are definitely more than welcome to use those armors or anything else I've made that's from-scratch :). I can dig around and see what other things I've made that might be useful. Just let me know!

Thank you very much for that!

chungy said:

The fork proposal was mainly about gaining more freedom to get make a better game, without the baggage of Doom compatibility. Freedoom itself won't stop with that goal; don't think of it as "replacement IWADs" but rather an independent game that's also compatible with Doom mods.

I should say that after reading Richard Stallman's opinion on (open source) game engines vs. game art that you have recently quoted I find it a bit hard to think of Freedoom as a completely independent game. It doesn't just run on the Doom engine, it uses the Doom engine in exactly the same form as Doom does. So from the playing mechanics perspective, it's exactly the same game, just with different art and levels. Frankly, I don't think this should be regarded as a negative thing at all. I believe that the community is entitled to put together such IWADs from resources that they have created, especially since the project was endorsed by John Carmack (and I suppose the rest of id Software as well?).

By comparison, if the plan laid out by esselfortium here is carried out, the resulting fork would certainly be an independent game - not only by the merit of having its own executables (although certain modifications to monsters, game behaviour etc. should not be ruled out), but because the removal of restrictions imposed by the PWAD compatibility goal will allow it to flesh out its own storyline and develop a thematic framework within which all elements - monster and item design, textures, levels etc. - will be consistent with each other.

For example, raymoohawk's armour and other pickups, or Maz Hades' reptilian candelabra are very high quality art. However, I don't think that they make a perfect match with Episode 1 textures that have been created (very skilfully indeed) in a style reminiscent of Doom. I cannot explain it better, but I think Catoptromancy referred to more or less the same thing here:

Catoptromancy said:

I have always felt freedoom had a gritty semi-steampunk style. This gritty style is very compatible with pwads and looks good. Raymoo's sprites are perfect for this, though a bit polished.

Maz Hades' reptilian candelabra for instance looks like it belongs in some exotic alien palace, and it feels out of place in Episode 1 surroundings. raymoohawk's work is characterised by a lot of fine detail, which contrasts with more gritty, less detailed textures and switches currently found in Freedoom.

I do not mean to say that Freedoom, in its current state, lacks identity of its own. On the contrary, I believe that its identity lies exactly in PWAD compatibility and the "similar but different" feel that is characteristic of the best textures, sprites, music and sounds which are made in the Doom style. There doesn't seem to be a problem to me to admit that the art style of the PWAD-compatible project was specifically chosen to be in harmony with that of Doom. Neither it is a problem that a desire for a more coherent artistic direction has led to the present turning point when a fork, or a split of the project, is being discussed. However, I agree that the term "replacement" is probably not the most appropriate, as it may indeed convey a certain negative connotation of an Ersatz with no value of its own. I did not mean to say anything like that, and I apologise for using that term in my previous posts without considering these implications.

Back to Mechadon's armour sprites, while I do agree that the blue version with shoulder pads might indeed be considered as being "too close" to its original counterpart, in this respect the one with straps isn't really that much different from fredrik's earlier work (BTW, I can't locate his armour sprites in the attic for some reason).

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MrFlibble said:

the removal of restrictions imposed by the PWAD compatibility goal will allow it to flesh out its own storyline and develop a thematic framework within which all elements - monster and item design, textures, levels etc. - will be consistent with each other.

That's what I don't understand about that part of the fork proposal - what is stopping us from doing that without losing compatibility? That's why I suggested the unique texture set idea, to give the levels a look of their own that isn't just aping Doom's tropes and aesthetics.

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Sodaholic said:

That's what I don't understand about that part of the fork proposal - what is stopping us from doing that without losing compatibility?

It is my understanding that if PWAD compatibility only meant creating a new set of art that would not conflict with the custom levels (e.g. so that a water flat is not replaced by a solid surface flat etc.), there would be no restrictions whatsoever in this respect. However, since many PWADs are partial conversions that may add or replace items, monsters, textures etc., there have been concerns that these custom resources will conflict with the IWAD ones if they are sufficiently different, e.g.:

RjY said:
Fredrik said:

This is an important issue. Another aspect of it is gameplay -- we've all played Doom so long that we subconsciously associate the original colors of the various powerups with their effects. I've made several powerups that break the color scheme (in the name originality), but I'll be happy to recolor those if there is a consensus to stick with the original colors.

I guess I'm 10 days late saying this but I agree the colours of certain items would be better if they matched the originals - green invulnerability, white megasphere and in particular blue combat armour. There is a tendency in really old Doom maps to put a soulsphere and blue armour in a room textured entirely in blue, so the armour being red looks quite odd :)

Adding new textures may certainly solve part of the problem. However, consider the assets which you cannot simply switch between. Maz Hades' concept of Zam pickups is actually pretty cool, and adds depth to the storyline. However, many objected to these because they felt it conflicts with the "neutrality" of IWAD content in respect to custom PWADs. There have been similar discussions concerning the player's gloves and muzzle flash colour. I don't think there's a way to include two variants of such assets in a single IWAD. Besides, you have voiced concerns yourself that the IWADs are larger than necessary (that is, unless you have changed your mind on that subject since).

Undoubtedly, so far Freedoom has managed to balance between compatibility and originality. However, at this point forking/splitting the project into a PWAD-compatible part (preferably compatible with all source ports as well by moving to limit-removing-compatible or vanilla maps) and a stand-alone independent game as per esselfortium's suggestion, with Boom (and possibly other) extensions, gameplay changes if necessary (like the trooper firing animation lighting fix), own cheat codes etc. The split/fork should provide a solution to controversial issues like Boom compatibility, plot development or art quality that is satisfactory to both sides.

Also, there have been discussions of possible future Freedoom-specific map-making. It seems to me that such map-making is more likely if part of the project is a truly independent game, rather than an all-in-one IWAD with restrictions concerning PWAD compatibility.

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