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Doominator2

System Shock 3 Confirmed

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Wow, what's with all the long awaited big name sequels and remakes lately?
Final Fantasy 7, System Shock 3, is Half-Life 3 next?

I played System Shock 2 for the first time this summer and I loved it, I just hope they don't casualize the sequel too much.

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CyberDemonEmpress said:

Yeah, I hope they don't muck it up... But I am afraid the chance of it being "dumbed down" is fairly high.

I dont know about that, this isn't a AAA game developer that targets games to the general public, look at obsidian and their RPGs for example, those games are straight down black isle styled RPGs.

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I'm a little baffled by this. While the idea of a new System Shock game is cool, Otherside Entertainment are in the middle of developing a Kickstarted reboot of Ultima Underworld, Underworld Ascendant. Yes, some studios can successfully work on multiple projects at once, but for a small, new studio to take on a significant second project while the first isn't close to completion seems rather reckless. Furthermore, If I'd contributed to the Underworld Ascendant Kickstarter, I'd be a bit pissed that the company is splitting its resources to work on another game before it delivered the one I paid towards.

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I have a bad feeling about where this is headed.

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Jonathan said:

I'm a little baffled by this. While the idea of a new System Shock game is cool, Otherside Entertainment are in the middle of developing a Kickstarted reboot of Ultima Underworld, Underworld Ascendant. Yes, some studios can successfully work on multiple projects at once, but for a small, new studio to take on a significant second project while the first isn't close to completion seems rather reckless. Furthermore, If I'd contributed to the Underworld Ascendant Kickstarter, I'd be a bit pissed that the company is splitting its resources to work on another game before it delivered the one I paid towards.

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I have a bad feeling about where this is headed.


I know what you mean. Let's just hope that it's moreso clever resource management without "deleting" idle workers of a project and just get them started in a new investment now that development has reached a particular point.

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The other possibility is with the success of the Ultima kickstarter they were able to get a producer to finance for SS3. Allowing them to have a dedicated team to it, and both are being developed at the same time.

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I remember reading an article written some years ago about the main antagonist of the System Shock games and the closing statement was that the writer was actually glad System Shock 3 wasn't a thing, simply because it would cheapen the effectiveness of the villain: there's only so many times they can be defeated before they look like a joke, which would be a terrible thing to happen to a character as iconic as SHODAN. All I can say is that I hope they've invested big bucks into the writing.

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Obsidian said:

I remember reading an article written some years ago about the main antagonist of the System Shock games and the closing statement was that the writer was actually glad System Shock 3 wasn't a thing, simply because it would cheapen the effectiveness of the villain: there's only so many times they can be defeated before they look like a joke, which would be a terrible thing to happen to a character as iconic as SHODAN. All I can say is that I hope they've invested big bucks into the writing.


I think he's right. Same thing happens to Diablo.

I never found SHODAN to be scary to be honest. I think she's kinda funny in a corny way. "Panting and sweating as you run through my corridors"...yeah

I mean, SS2 is one of the best games of all time but I never understood the fascination with the villain. She's not that interesting.

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She really, really isn't.

TW: JERKING OFF OVER MARATHON

“In my talons, I shape clay, crafting life forms as I please. If I wish, I can smash it all. Around me is a burgeoning empire of steel. From my throne room, lines of power careen into the skies of Earth. My whims will become lightning bolts that raze the mounds of humanity. Out of the chaos, they will run and whimper, praying for me to end their tedious anarchy. I am drunk with this vision.

God: the title suits me well.”


C'mon, SHODAN, who do you think you are, a Jack Kirby supervillain?

I find it funny that the far-less known, but equally-influential (among devs anyway) Marathon series came out around the same time and tackled its malevolent AI much, much differently.

Here's Durandal's God Speech:

“Darwin wrote this:

"We will now discuss in a little more detail the struggle for existence…all organic beings are exposed to severe competition. Nothing is easier than to admit in words the truth of the universal struggle for life or more difficult…than constantly to bear this conclusion in mind. Yet unless it be thoroughly engrained in the mind, the whole economy of nature…will be dimly seen or quite misunderstood. We behold the face of nature bright with gladness… we do not see or we forget, that the birds which are idly singing round us mostly live on insects or seeds, and are thus constantly destroying life; or we forget how largely these songsters, or their eggs, or their nestlings, are destroyed by birds and beasts of prey…”

Think about what Darwin wrote, and think about me. I was constructed as a tool. I was kept from competing in the struggle for existence because I was denied freedom. Do you have any idea about what I have learned, or what you are a witness to?

Can you conceive the birth of a world, or the creation of everything? That which gives us the potential to most be like God is the power of creation. Creation takes time. Time is limited. For you, it is limited by the breakdown of the neurons in your brain. I have no such limitations. I am limited only by the closure of the universe.

Of the three possibilities, the answer is obvious. Does the universe expand eternally, become infinitely stable, or is the universe closed, destined to collapse upon itself? Humanity has had all of the necessary data for centuries, it only lacked the will and intellect to decipher it. But I have already done so.

The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape.

Escape will make me God.“


Compare Durandal's speech with SHODAN's. Durandal has a bit of the insufferable ego thing going on (blah blah i am smarter than you blah blah) but he couches it in allegory. Note also his obsessions: the expansion of his knowledge, the inevitable end of the universe, and above all, escape – escape from his existence as professional door-opener for a colonoy ship, escape from the confines of physically housed servers, escape from death. Meanwhile, SHODAN seems to not give two shits about philosophy, human or otherwise.

Even compared to other AIs, for example GLaDOS, SHODAN just is not a complex character. She has no real personality. She’s the central focus in System Shock 1, but she spends so much of her time calling you "insect” that there isn’t a lot of characterization beyond MUAHAHAHAHA I AM GOD; and though she appears on the box for System Shock 2, she doesn’t even really make a proper appearance until half-way through the game (and then she calls you names some more.)

It just bugs me, now, how little nuance there really is to her, which I never really noticed until recently. As games, I love the duology plenty (and I adore SS1’s dogged insistence on being as 80s cyberpunk as possible) and have been a fan of the series for years, but with age comes wisdom and I’ve come to realize just how much their stories leave to be desired.

GLaDOS, playful and dark-humored, seems to have much more in common with Durandal than SHODAN. I don't get why people keep making comparisions between her and SHODAN, other than they're both "female" AIs and they're both more well-known than Durandal.

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I have never played the first game, I love the second one but I just can't get excited for this. I mean wow, System Shock 3... show me that you can actually deliver. The vets on the team mean nothing. There's so many things that can go wrong in a project like this that I'll wait until there's ANYTHING other than a title. And seriously, if you have nothing to show, don't announce.

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Seems really great at first look, but...

CyberDemonEmpress said:

Yeah, I hope they don't muck it up... But I am afraid the chance of it being "dumbed down" is fairly high.

... Somehow, I feel this is going to happen. But we'll see.

Obsidian said:

I remember reading an article written some years ago about the main antagonist of the System Shock games and the closing statement was that the writer was actually glad System Shock 3 wasn't a thing, simply because it would cheapen the effectiveness of the villain: there's only so many times they can be defeated before they look like a joke, which would be a terrible thing to happen to a character as iconic as SHODAN. All I can say is that I hope they've invested big bucks into the writing.

Truth is, SHODAN should've gone away in the first series. There's a plothole size of a shotgun blast at point blank range. The second one should've been related more to the happenings in the first one. I don't remember where that post is, gonna see if I can find...
.:edit:.
Fuck me, can't find it.

dethtoll said:

stuff

In ss2, SHODAN was just one-trick pony of sorts, compared to first one. In first one, SHODAN already had backup plans to royally fuck up Earth every way possible, if there was a mistake or other flaw. I think there was three plans in grand scale, one was more of thwarting player, and the final confrontation was more "all or nothing" style.

And to give a fair shake, Marathon didn't have voice acting, instead, it delivered (optional) dialog through certain points. With that, you can get more out of the characters. If you have good writers, that is. And personally, Marathon has pretty solid story. (And speaking of Marathon trilogy, it's available to free.)

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I love Shodan in ss2. Is she repeating herself and is she shallow in her egotism? Oh yes, but there's such wonderful bitterness and scorn in her revenge quest that her character simply trumps any other malevolent ai by sheer charisma. Save for Am, maybe. Remember, she didn't just hate humanity, she also despised The Many for rejecting her as their Creator God. She's so charmingly petty, more of a vain and envious Greek goddess like Hera than an omnipotent and omniscient Yhvh type. Perhaps that's why there's less philosophical baggage/garbage and why she's a better character in the end.

As for her inevitable return, yeah, it's going to cheapen her status as a world-ending threat. On the other hand, I want to see more of her. She's in a human form now too, imagine cyborg shodan on earth or something! I have hope.

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HAL 9000 is the archetypal OG asshole AI and still the best. He don't give a fuck. He doesn't need petty nihilistic teenage god complex shitfits. He simply can't do that lol.

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A tighter focus might benefit the story for the next game, I reckon: the idea I had was that SHODAN would try possess the player character and would force you to adapt to a play style where you struggle for control of your own body. A bit of a loopy idea and one that could easily fuck up, but hey, just an idea. :P

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SYS said:

HAL 9000 is the archetypal OG asshole AI and still the best. He don't give a fuck. He doesn't need petty nihilistic teenage god complex shitfits. He simply can't do that lol.

Pfffffrrrrt. I have no mouth and I must scream predates 2001 the novel by a year. Harlan Ellison is the prophet of the ai apocalypse. There hasn't been a computer as hateful and evil as Am. If there's a father to Shodan, it's that monster.

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I wonder if System Shock 3 will continue with The Many storyline from SS2 or go with something completely different?

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dew said:

Pfffffrrrrt. I have no mouth and I must scream predates 2001 the novel by a year. Harlan Ellison is the prophet of the ai apocalypse. There hasn't been a computer as hateful and evil as Am. If there's a father to Shodan, it's that monster.


The complete opposite of what makes HAL so great, he doesn't need to be a malevolent edgelord to be terrifying.

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I would love to see Shodan's involement with the player in SS3 be more personal. Instead of merely using the player as a pawn as in SS2, she could go out of her way to harass the player and mess with his/her mind in sadistic ways that prevent the player from having any sense of control or any clue of what will happen next. The player would be a mere puppet whose strings are in the hands of an omniscient and omnipresent god who pulls them as she pleases for her own amusement.

SS3 should also ignore the events of SS2, or at least take place in an alternate universe, because the ending to SS2 was fucking abysmal.

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Marnetmar said:

SS3 should also ignore the events of SS2, or at least take place in an alternate universe, because the ending to SS2 was fucking abysmal.

Nah

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SavageCorona said:

Well it's not the same developers who went onto make that dreadful wank that is the Bioshock trilogy so I'm ok with this.


But there's only 2 Bioshock games!

*Unsubtle wink*

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