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Reinchard

Doom remake for idtech4

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UPDATE 04-13-2016:
I joined forces with Doom Reborn team, so if you want more details I invite on http://doomreborngame.com/
There was long time since my last post - at that time I made a lot of new textures and models needed for proper normal/height map baking. Check page 5 if you want more info.

OLD NEWS:
Hi! Me and DoomMarine82 decide to make our own remake of Classic Doom from 1993 under idtech4 engine with all features that offers modern ports like Sikkmod. Our goal is to recreate original game art (that's my part), maps and gameplay (that part of DoomMarine82 - he do really nice and hard work there). There are mods like Classic Doom for Doom3 and they look impressive but when you play it you feel something is wrong, you feel that this isn't Doom. We try to change it and focus on original experience. We use textures based on original ones with all maps like specular, normal and height map. We post more info and playable demo in near future. DoomMarine82 explain you all tech stuff - he is the tech-guy and mapper and it all works thanks to him, I'm the art guy - I create textures and models.











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Haha, holy shit that looks cool :-D

Are you working on a custom binary based on the idtech4 source or is it just new maps loaded through the retail exe?

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Would be better put original monsters... and weapons... Not from Doom 3. Anyway it's great. Nice styoouuuff.
Ehhh. How hard it is sometimes you know... I mean recreating

In my dreams exist some ideas about remastering original Doom with some guys from that forum. But it's just a dream

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i don't know about anyone else, but i don't think these maps will work with the doom 3's enemy ai and health...

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roadworx said:

i don't know about anyone else, but i don't think these maps will work with the doom 3's enemy ai and health...

That was the problem I found with the Knee Deep In the Dead mod for Doom 3.
At least this one looks pretty.

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I came.

I hope the AI is changed to some degree just to suit the layouts, but holy fucking shit that looks stunning! Keep it up, you guys are doing fantastic by the look of things.

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Beautiful!

Thats some really nice work guys, particularly the lighting. Just need to watch where the light beams intersect the roof above.

Love the tech pillars in the second shot, the lighting on the tops is beautiful.

I'd love to see some shots with soft shadows enabled if possible.

Are the textures modified versions of your originals Reinchard?

It gives me hope the engine can pull off some nice looking textures!

And just ignore comments such as "not this shit again".

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Doomkid said:

I came.

I hope the AI is changed to some degree just to suit the layouts, but holy fucking shit that looks stunning!


AI and physics are changed that you can run and blast your way through the enemys like in original. Possesed soldiers don't use any "acrobatic" movements anymore.

s13n1 said:

Are the textures modified versions of your originals Reinchard?

It gives me hope the engine can pull off some nice looking textures!


Yes, they are the same textures, slightly changed. All of them are made from models, so I have base to work on all additional maps for them.

AlektorophobiA said:

Is this the same as that god-awful Doom Reborn mod?, or something different?


No, we have nothing to do with Doom Reborn, but that's where everything started - when I first play DR mod and say - wow this is amazing, but this isn't look right.

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@Superluigieth1 - for now yes, and I don't think about something like in DOOM reborn in the future. (BTW DOOM reborn inspired us a bit :) )

EDIT:

I don't think about skills anyway, it will recreate DOOM ultra violence. Hardcore DOOM players welcomed ;)

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Guys, this is really impressive but I don't think you can just slap some new (really good) textures onto the old level geometry and call it a day. I think the levels need to be heavily redesigned to fit the new assets so that they won't look strange. I think it would have to be done to such an extent that the levels only loosely look like the originals. I also suggest also using Doom 3 textures alongside the old ones so that the repetition won't be that obvious.

I mean, look at this .



See how the texture just abruptly "cuts?". The lighting is also completely off too.

When you upgrade something from an old game, you have to upgrade EVERYTHING. Not doing so would be like putting very high quality animations on old Quake 1 models.

Also, there is another guy on this forum doing something very similar. Why not work with him?

Here is the thread I am talking about.

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-editing/69499-doom-hd-project/

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I have to agree that if the levels are going to be 1:1 copy of the originals (geometry/thing-placement/texturing/gameplay), then the project is going to suck as a whole, for the same reasons as people mentioned here.

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scifista42 said:

I have to agree that if the levels are going to be 1:1 copy of the originals (geometry/thing-placement/texturing/gameplay), then the project is going to suck as a whole, for the same reasons as people mentioned here.


Yeah...A Doom remake needs more than just a texture upgrade. It needs to be like Black Mesa and I doubt that can be done by just two people, no matter how talented. It took the Black Mesa devs 8 years to make it. Are you prepared to make a similar commitment of professionalism, motivation and sacrifice?

The way I see it, I think you guys should make a team of highly talented AND motivated people, who are willing to work for free, in their spare time. There are a lot of talented 3D artists in the Doom community and some have their own Doom remake projects. The problem is that these projects are scattered and slowly fade away. What I would do is gather these people and motivate them. Even so, no matter how motivated, do you have what it takes to lead, motivate and inspire them for years? Will YOU have the motivation to pour thousands of hours of your life into something that is free, for an old game? Because let's face it, such a project will probably take years.

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DooM_RO said:

Yeah...A Doom remake needs more than just a texture upgrade. It needs to be like Black Mesa and I doubt that can be done by just two people, no matter how talented. It took the Black Mesa devs 8 years to make it. Are you prepared to make a similar commitment of professionalism, motivation and sacrifice?

The way I see it, I think you guys should make a team of highly talented AND motivated people, who are willing to work for free, in their spare time. There are a lot of talented 3D artists in the Doom community and some have their own Doom remake projects. The problem is that these projects are scattered and slowly fade away. What I would do is gather these people and motivate them. Even so, no matter how motivated, do you have what it takes to lead, motivate and inspire them for years? Will YOU have the motivation to pour thousands of hours of your life into something that is free, for an old game? Because let's face it, such a project will probably take years.


I think you partly answered yourself why such kind of projects don't have big chances to be completed - big team of devs? Forget about it, not in this community. So we do it our way, and this is only logic way to release something playable.

There be two version of maps - purist version with everything exactly like in original, and more advenced version with lots of 3d decorations, but still with original feeling of old, abandoned Phobos base.

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Reinchard said:

There be two version of maps - purist version with everything exactly like in original, and more advenced version with lots of 3d decorations, but still with original feeling of old, abandoned Phobos base.

By "feeling", do you mean Doom's exact level geometry and thing placement? In the System Shock thread I previously linked, the devs really thought that "feeling" means just that.

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Reinchard said:

I think you partly answered yourself why such kind of projects don't have big chances to be completed - big team of devs? Forget about it, not in this community. So we do it our way, and this is only logic way to release something playable.

There be two version of maps - purist version with everything exactly like in original, and more advenced version with lots of 3d decorations, but still with original feeling of old, abandoned Phobos base.


Hmm, that could work. I was not suggesting a huge team. More like 6-8 people.

You know what else you could do? Make new maps inspired by the level design and flow of the originals, using your custom textures alongside Doom 3 textures. The way I see it, the original maps could also be a constraint like "Does this new room look like the original?", "what could this room represent?" "how do we change this room without losing the feel of the original?" "Why is there a computer lab right after this grungy slime pit?" and so on.

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scifista42 said:

By "feeling", do you mean Doom's exact level geometry and thing placement? In the System Shock thread I previously linked, the devs really thought that "feeling" means just that.


We both play Doom since 1995, so we know what the "Doom Feeling" means ;)
I know this isn't only geometry and things placement.

DooM_RO said:

Also, there is another guy on this forum doing something very similar. Why not work with him?

Here is the thread I am talking about.

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-editing/69499-doom-hd-project/



Yes, I know his work, is fantastic. But I have all textures for e1m1 done (I start made them few years ago) and we have different style - I try to make textures that looked like originals when you downsized them to 128 pixels. With automatic textures generator like quixel you can have very good looking materials, but you need to spend some time editing them if you want them to look like the original. BTW we are open to any offers of cooperation.

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Reinchard said:

We both play Doom since 1995, so we know what the "Doom Feeling" means ;)
I know this isn't only geometry and things placement.



Yes, I know his work, is fantastic. But I have all textures for e1m1 done (I start made them few years ago) and we have different style - I try to make textures that looked like originals when you downsized them to 128 pixels. With automatic textures generator like quixel you can have very good looking materials, but you need to spend some time editing them if you want them to look like the original. BTW we are open to any offers of cooperation.


I remember when you used 3D models to make the textures. I think you should use those instead because TEKWALL4 for example, while it looked very good as a picture looked very strange when applied as a 2D texture.

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DooM_RO said:

I remember when you used 3D models to make the textures. I think you should use those instead because TEKWALL4 for example, while it looked very good as a picture looked very strange when applied as a 2D texture.


That's why I use parallax occlusion mapping. But in some cases we use 3d models (still wonder about exit door - maybe I use for them some lowpoly mesh).

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My advice for a Doom HD remake thing would probably be along the lines of what DooM_RO is saying. You can do whatever you want of course (not that I need to tell you that), but I do have quite a bit of experience with huge, long projects. Way too long, so I know what not to do ;)

Take a look at the Black Mesa project. It retains the general idea of the original while expanding upon it - bringing it into a modern age. Your texture assets look okay, but they just can't stand on their own. This is basically nice surface rendering on top of hackjob nonsensical geometry. It looks like programmer's art. It worked for low-res Doom1, but it really does not work for something like this. Why did you spend a lot of time making extremely detailed versions of these textures only to have them tile in the ugliest and laziest of ways? What you're doing right now is taking a single aspect of the game and turning up the resolution. This doesn't work. You're breaking the excellent consistency that is Doom.

Instead of planning out the entirety of Doom 1, pick your favorite level and focus on JUST that alone. Don't stop until it's done as a playable proof of concept that is releaseable an adequately illustrates what you're aiming for. Reenvision the level. What is this supposed to be? What about that? How does the name of the level influence what's going on in the level? Where does the nuclear waste come from? What kind of role does it play?

Opposing the general misconception; These kinds of questions have little to do with "AHMAGAWD COD GAMEPLAY AND REALISTIC BORING CRAP" and everything to do with consistency of vision.

As things are right now it seems the way you measure your success is how much the new resembles the old. This is frightfully boring. A cover version of a song that's indistinguishable from the original is completely insignificant. Give it your own spin! What did you like about the level? Expand on that. What didn't work so well? Challenge your own perception of Doom!

And as it has already been pointed out, band together with the other Doom HD/remake guys. Find common ground and a joint vision. You don't need a huge team, but 3-5 dedicated guys is probably a minimum for something like this.

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Reinchard said:

BTW we are open to any offers of cooperation.


I would love to work on such a project but sadly I don't know the first thing about the Doom 3 editor, just classic Doom mapping.

I do have really big map classic map in the works that uses only vanilla resources though. So if you want a showcase level for classic Doom, we could work it out although it's not finished yet. It's around 60% complete, with lots of unfinished areas. I could show you the map if you want.

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