Stardate 20x7 [/idgames]

[Firedust]

Since this got bumped, might as well ask: is the final version coming any time soon? :)

[Ribbiks]

Cynical said:

I'm at a total loss.

are you playing hmp or uv? if you recall I was more concerned about hmp/hntr being fun and balanced/"fair"/whatever, while uv is for pure challenge, requires you to iron out reliable strats ahead of time, etc etc.. Just for fun I'm going to assume you tried UV:

here's some strats I came up with. haven't played this map in ages, but I'm able to beat that area pretty consistently: http://www.rbkz.net/doom/sd20x7_betaR1_m06_toCynicalLoveRibbiks.lmp

you can take out all the enemies before the RL fight starts (see demo for the idea I came up with). after grabbing RL it's pretty easy to prioritize revs/AV --> cacos --> barons/cyb, in that order. I think I updated this area to have a smidge more ammo (in case the cyb gets prematurely wrecked by the barons), and to have the exit be less clunky (i.e. got rid of those 2 AVs that tele in).

FYI a lot of stuff about these maps has changed since I posted this beta. I'd advise refraining from m07 until I release the next beta, or whatever. it has some fights and aesthetics that I've really changed my mind on since then. Including a rather amusingly overtuned penultimate fight that is god damn bonkers.

Firedust said:

Since this got bumped, might as well ask: is the final version coming any time soon? :)

First I abandoned it, then I unabandoned it :). The aesthetic I was relying on for these maps doesn't excite me as much nowadays, so my motivation dipped for awhile. But I've been mapping for this on and off in my spare time.

the good news: once it's done there will be 11 maps in total (so, 4 new maps, and plenty of improvements to the previous 7):



the bad news: the development is orders of magnitude slower than usual.

I'll finish these eventually, no worries. I'm taking my time to make it feel like a more cohesive set than the first beta release, while trying to retain the relative diversity of gameplay/visual ideas per map. anyhow, thanks for the interest :)

[Cynical]

I'm playing HMP. I know better than to try any of this wad past map 02 on UV, lol.

[Lingyan203]

Nice! I can't wait for the final release! I'll probably even give this wad and do a playthrough of it! :)

[Cynical]

FINALLY got past map 06. Even knowing what to do, the rocket launcher fight is a bear; the only way I consistently had any success was to just set up the Baron vs. Cyb infighting and run away from it once I had the Revs and Cacos dead.

I did allow myself a save before the final fight, and was very glad I did. That last fight is interesting, but really relies on knowing the exact mechanics of what's going to happen; trying to learn it without being able to try it a bunch of times in a row would be endlessly frustrating, heh.

Slight semi-bug that you might want to keep in -- you can make the final fight a bit easier by not killing the former humans in the second room, they'll distract some of the Barons for you.

[Ribbiks]

Cynical said:

FINALLY got past map 06. Even knowing what to do, the rocket launcher fight is a bear; the only way I consistently had any success was to just set up the Baron vs. Cyb infighting and run away from it once I had the Revs and Cacos dead.

I don't have any qualms with making it a touch easier on hmp, thanks for the commentary.

I did allow myself a save before the final fight, and was very glad I did. That last fight is interesting, but really relies on knowing the exact mechanics of what's going to happen; trying to learn it without being able to try it a bunch of times in a row would be endlessly frustrating, heh.

the colors of the bars before the exit tele correspond to the AV/baron waves. I didn't want to spell it out for the player, but it's definitely hard to keep the idea of that fight threatening without making it a bit annoying on first attempts.

Slight semi-bug that you might want to keep in -- you can make the final fight a bit easier by not killing the former humans in the second room, they'll distract some of the Barons for you.

cheeky :). I was considering getting rid of those zombies altogether, as they're rather pointless anyhow.

[Cynical]

Oh wow, I didn't notice the colors of the bars.

The way I did that fight was to just pull the Barons towards where the BFG starts before killing them (that is, away from where the AVs spawn), and worry more about landing good clean BFG shots than taking a few hits. It took a lot of tries to work that strategy out, but it's consistent on HMP; from my save, I just did it several times in a row, without knowing about the bar colors.

[dobu gabu maru]

Ribbiks said:

First I abandoned it, then I unabandoned it :)

Good to hear! I know this kinda thing boils down to your call and whether or not you're passionate about the work you're creating, but sometimes you can be so goddamn clever and inventive with your maps that it's disheartening to hear when you're abandoning a mapset, especially since you've already put plenty of work into this one. I would rather have a mapset take a while to get released than to see it disappear into the ether.

[Cynical]

I just had another look at map 06 to see if I could figure out what you were talking about with regards to the bars, and it seems like they're always purple?

[Demon of the Well]

Good things come to those who wait. Or so we all hope, surely--glad to hear it has been 'unabandoned', as the prospect of a WAD that genuinely treats HMP as the main game and UV as NG+ is interesting in itself, apart from all the entertainment implied by the general prospect of a Stardate sequel.

The reason for the initial slump being that you'd lost interest in the general theme/aesthetic of Stardate (which more or less encompasses all of the main themes you've worked with thus far in your WADing career) certainly has me curious about what kind of stuff it is you're into these days, though, I must say. :D

[Koros]

I absolutely love this wad, I'm happy to hear it's still being worked on! Even in its current state, I still voted this for a Caco award!

[Ribbiks]

Cynical said:

I just had another look at map 06 to see if I could figure out what you were talking about with regards to the bars, and it seems like they're always purple?

I meant these bars, before you tele to the final circular thingie:



(purple = barons, red = AV). I suppose I could increase the conveyance by having the colors flash somewhere in the last arena before the mobs tele in. (think like the sky change in that ggg map30 in claustrophobia 1024, or whatever), depends on how much hassle that is.

Demon of the Well said:

The reason for the initial slump being that you'd lost interest in the general theme/aesthetic of Stardate (which more or less encompasses all of the main themes you've worked with thus far in your WADing career) certainly has me curious about what kind of stuff it is you're into these days, though, I must say. :D

sd20x7 is tethered to many visual/gameplay tropes that I find tiring at this point, but I've got a few tricks up my sleeve yet :). As for what has caught my attention recently, hmm.. benjo's totg is by far the most entertaining thing I've played in awhile, this random yakfak map was also great. basically I want balls-hard maps with striking atypical aesthetics and a "you figure it out, asshole" attitude :p. I keep an eye out for ToD maps ofc, as he pretty much embodies that idea.

[baja blast rd.]

Ribbiks said:

sd20x7 is tethered to many visual/gameplay tropes that I find tiring at this point

Yeah I think there is only so much one can do with minimalist DD-ish two- or three-species simple arena set pieces, without introducing custom monsters, before it seems like they are starting to repeat themselves. I personally decided not to do much of that anymore, unless the fights are meant to interact with or spill into the wider environment.

There are probably still some combos worth exploring, however. A dual-closet reveal in a tight room with a cyber on one side and like 16 former human troopers on the other would be interesting.

[Cynical]

Ribbiks said:

I meant these bars, before you tele to the final circular thingie:

http://i.imgur.com/oliO4T3m.png

(purple = barons, red = AV). I suppose I could increase the conveyance by having the colors flash somewhere in the last arena before the mobs tele in. (think like the sky change in that ggg map30 in claustrophobia 1024, or whatever), depends on how much hassle that is.

Shouldn't be that hard to do. Just make those purple strips by the wall that reveals the exit switch strip a bit wider/easier to see, and make them nested doors like 2 units thick each, each one revealing the color behind it.

(So, you'd have five doors, one behind the next, off in the distance on each side, on the same timers as the teleports. The first one would have a purple texture, the second one a purple texture, the third a red texture, the fourth a purple texture, the fifth a red texture, and the wall behind the last door would be a red texture.)

[Firedust]

Yay! Glad you are gonna finish this. Looking forward to the final result. :)
Your maps rule.

[WH-Wilou84]

Ribbiks said:

I'll finish these eventually, no worries. I'm taking my time to make it feel like a more cohesive set than the first beta release, while trying to retain the relative diversity of gameplay/visual ideas per map. anyhow, thanks for the interest :)

Great news :)
I'm really excited about this project, and wish you good luck with it.

The bar color code thingy in map06 is interesting, I never got it that way and thought the bars were here for cosmetic purposes only.

[Solarn]

I just finished the first six maps on HMP, might try UV later, since many of the fights felt kind of lackluster. My impressions:

Map 1: Sun/Moon/Stars: Very interesting aesthetic, the Japanese paper wall textures reminded me of Deus Vult 2's MAP03, which was probably deliberate. The progression was a bit confusing, it wasn't always clear where I needed to go for the next switch or indeed what certain switches did. The map space also felt a bit less perfectly used compared to Stardate 20x6, but that might just have been because of the very different setup (an island with a number of structures instead of a bunch of interconnected rooms that slowly open up). In the end though, I still loved it.

Map 2: The Other Side: So this is what the starting area of rdwpa's Eden reminded me of! This was the only map I managed to complete on UV way back when this wad was released, and it felt super short back then. Playing through on HMP at a much more leisurely pace, I realized why. A good chunk of the map is completely optional and I never encountered any of it back then. Space is used much more cleverly than in the first map, although the fact that so much of it takes place in disconnected side arenas means that there are less opportunities for walls-opening-up shenanigans. One thing I noticed here that pops up multiple times through the wad is that almost all of the really hard-seeming fights can be cheesed as long as you know the trick to them. The only ones I had any real trouble with were the first big one after you drop down from the central platform, with the brick walls lowering and revealing a mixed horde, and the Revenant staircase. I'm also kind of sad that the castle in the distance wasn't a place I could visit, but whatever.

Map 3: Amethyst III: LOL Barkley Shut Up and Jam Gaiden. Okay, with that out of the way, this was a very harsh thematic change from the first two maps' general low-tech bricks-and-wood aesthetic and much more reminiscent of the previous Stardate, as indicated by the name. There was a lot of interconnectedness, as well as a fair bit of non-linear progression. The map also introduces a really cool trick that shows up only one more time in the first six maps if I remember correctly (can't speak for the seventh), where a flat invisible floor is overlaid on an intricately detailed fake floor, creating a feeling of walking on transparent or mirrored glass. If I had any complaints about the map, they would be the obtuseness of the secrets, even compared to your usual fare, and the lightbridges feeling kind of weirdly slippery.

Map 4: Lotus Keep: We're back to the mostly low-tech aesthetic, this time in an enclosed environment. The entrance is a very clear reference to Swim With The Whales and the rest of the map also takes some cues from that, without becoming a recoloured SWTW level. The initial fight and the return to the watery entrance hall were properly tense, but the rest felt really easy in comparison. There were even a few spots (black key room!) that felt like a fight was excised from them. One other thing that I'd like to mention going forward is the oppressive feeling of loneliness engendered by these maps, which is enhanced by their relatively sparse (for a slaughtermap) populations. Light levels are often low and while the playing area is gorgeously detailed, there is usually nothing surrounding it except for a vast expanse of dark liquid. Even the sky itself joins in, first turning from a purple cloudy skyscape to the depths of space, then disappearing into blackness entirely. I'm not saying it's not cool, but I'm kind of missing the grand vistas of Sunlust or at least the opportunities to look back towards the map from outside that Stardate 20x6 gave.

Map 5: Grand Ballroom: A new aesthetic again, although less in texturing and more in map architecture and use of familiar textures. This map has a definite gothic feel to it, although I'm not too certain if the eponymous grand ballroom is the purple-tiled starting area with the arched enclosure in the middle or the exit room, which has the second (and in my opinion even better) use of "mirrored" floors in the wad. The side areas connect to each other in various interesting ways, helped by the judicious use of teleports, and include some metallic tunnels that foreshadow Map 6. One thing that has been done in the wad before but I forgot to mention is your use of the Quake sheet metal texture (favourite of slaughtermappers everywhere) to actually suggest sheets of metal instead of enormous cubes. I have to agree with Krypto, the battle on the western gallery was thoroughly underwhelming, especially since you give the player the chance to rocket the horde of imps to death from behind a raised floor. The noble tunnel on the other hand was very interesting and quite possibly the place where I died most, thanks to various stray shots while I was focused on another enemy. Also, the black key secret was kind of bullshit. I had to cheat myself an automap to find it. And the arena it opened up was hilariously easy. I think in the end what I like most about the map is its ability to evoke a very strong sense of place while staying abstract enough to play well.

Map 6: Sphinx Rising: I don't know what to think about this map. It's the least visually coherent of the set, with the gray metal tunnels and the fleshy staircase, and it's got a ton of small things that bother me. Like how it's really easy to leave the second Cybie (the one in the purple and red cave area) behind due to lack of ammo and then never find the way back to it after the floor of the pillar room drops. I'm also not a huge fan of the mandatory hurtfloors. I had advance warning about the exit fight's gimmick and it was ridiculously easy with that knowledge, meanwhile one of the first fights (the one in the red and purple caves after dropping down or descending the stairs) was hellishly difficult because of the way the enemies could easily box me in. And finally, there were some parts that I thought would host slaughters, only to be greeted with a few easy enemies or not even that. For example, I was certain that the place in the beginning where I shot the switch that let me enter the actual level would be revisited on the bottom floor, but it turns out there is no bottom floor and the entire area was decorative. And yet, despite all that, I didn't hate the map at all, in fact I enjoyed it. So yeah.

[Ribbiks]

cheers! sent ya a PM ;)

[damo]

Hey,

I sometimes host this was on a ZDaemon server in survival game mode. It is really well received, and people really like it.

I'm just letting you know that there seems to be a multiplayer issue on Map07. Near the end of the map, where the room with the count down pillar (10,9,8,7...). When 1 person enters here, other players cannot teleport in, the teleports do nothing.

Do you know the part I am talking about?

[rhinoduck]

damo2k said:

I'm just letting you know that there seems to be a multiplayer issue on Map07. Near the end of the map, where the room with the count down pillar (10,9,8,7...). When 1 person enters here, other players cannot teleport in, the teleports do nothing.

The teleport destination (thing 2629) is missing the 'hard' flag. Here is an add-on wad to fix that: sd20x7_betar1-patchinfofix.zip (ZDaemon only)

[NinjaLiquidator]

Offtopic question, but can you also 3D model? I wonder what you would be capable of in full 3D without limitations.

[damo]

rhinoduck said:

The teleport destination (thing 2629) is missing the 'hard' flag. Here is an add-on wad to fix that: sd20x7_betar1-patchinfofix.zip (ZDaemon only)

Thanks for that, works great!

[Killer5]

Hello. Thanks for making these maps. They rock.

Here is a set of whatev max demos I made for all the maps:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2btvbb1w7stmn3/Stardate%2020x7.zip?dl=0

Thanks again!

[Paul977]

Map 07 looks awesome with a very fitting midi

[NinjaLiquidator]

I tested all of these:

 

 

Overall good. It was hard but I expected that. It was purple and I also expected that. There are some "geometry porn" highlights like Map05 oval maze before exit ,Map07 leaf-shaped front of the room before beginning, Map07 final crystal cave... . Also some textures in Map01 are cool, and I could go on and on.

Main gameplay notes:

Map02 staircase fight can be skipped when running around Revenants to the teleporting switch

Map07 triggers are broken in Zdoom (3 red circles on conveyor belts), eyes and candles stuck before lowered ceiling, action is pass, so unable to open doors - had to IDCLIP

Map07 fight before the final one - !!!!! too hard, I doubt it can be done on UV (or post me a proof) - I ended up beating most of Revenants by hand in the corner and saving after every punched one, which is faggotry. also - it could be detailed more, when player spends so much time here, room looks underdone like it was speedmapped and pasted in there.

[Ribbiks]

Greetings, thanks for the comments!

 

A lot of the maps have been significantly altered (visuals, general balance, map order) and there are some new ones en route. I believe I fixed everything you've mentioned. That second-to-last fight has received a lot of flak :p. Even though in general I've slightly increased UV difficulty across the board, that fight did receive some nerfs. As for proof that it's doable scroll a few posts up and check out zzul's uv-maxes (though even he cuts that one pretty close :))

 

I'll try to get my act together and get the new and revised maps out there, but I've been saying that for awhile not :p

[Nine Inch Heels]

On 16.1.2016 at 5:35 AM, kmxexii said:

awe yeah Rubik's cubes here I come

I always thought it was called "Ribbiks' cube". ;-)

[Spectre01]

8 hours ago, NinjaLiquidator said:

Map07 fight before the final one - !!!!! too hard, I doubt it can be done on UV (or post me a proof) - I ended up beating most of Revenants by hand in the corner and saving after every punched one, which is faggotry. also - it could be detailed more, when player spends so much time here, room looks underdone like it was speedmapped and pasted in there.

It has been done on UV by both MrZzul, multiple times at that, as well as other streamers. You always get that one wannabe hardcore guy who thinks he's good at Doom whining about difficulty when it's simply beyond his skill level. Play on HMP as recommended. The fact that the fight got nerfed because of casual whiners on UV is pretty sad.

[Ribbiks]

Hi. I finished all the new stuff. Let's call this wad "released" now.

 

 

 

Pretty much every map has been updated (some of them significantly, others mostly cosmetically). Here's a maplist:

 

01: Sun/Moon/Stars
02: Eastern Sun             [new]
03: Amethyst III
04: Velvet Blood Mission    [new]
05: Sphinx Rising
06: The Other Side
07: Lotus Keep
08: Grand Ballroom
09: Do You Believe?
--
31: Hopscotch               [new]
32: Issai Perfect           [new]

 

Maps are more or less final. Coop has been tested but not rigorously. If there are any game-breaking bugs or other horrible imbalances I'll take care of that before the inevitable /idgames upload.

 

Cheers.

 

Download [RELEASE]

 

** Obligatory reminder: sd20x7 was designed around HMP. UV is not recommended for first playthroughs *

 

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Ribbiks

[Not Jabba]

Holy crap, awesome!