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an_mutt

NOVA III [LINK TO NEW THREAD IN OP]

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Can you tell us how you're getting that link?

To me, I just right click the file and select "copy dropbox link". Check if the link ends in ?dl=0

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sincity2100 said:


Nice map, i had fun playing this one, just a quick blast on HMP but i think i'll be going again on UV. My main comment is that i felt ammo was skewed, there was almost too much later on in the map and not enough early on (i'm talking mainly SG ammo). Also the final revenant trap... i ran into the exit by accident! Maybe you could swap it so walking across a certain point triggers them, before you hit the switch. Could also perhaps swap the megasphere secret for a blue armor seeing as you give the player one later anyway... the secret one really made the map much safer, the armor could be a good compromise, but of course difficulty is subjective. This could be a good map for earlier in the temple/jungle block of maps.

Good stuff though, thanks!

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sincity2100 said:

Behind the yellow key door you put a Baron, but fighting a Baron by itself in such a big room is just a waste of time. Replacing it by a hell knight would be better.

Other than that... not a fan of the blue flat abuse, in the ceiling it's nice, but on the floor it didn't fit well. And what's up with the weird moon-thing on the ceiling of the starting room?
It also could use a few dark parts, the light level was pretty much constant throughout.

Angry Saint said:

It is 95% complete, maybe it just needs some improvement with the gameplay. Let me know.

Visually, 10/10.
As for the gameplay, do you think it's fun to fight mancubi and barons of hell with the shotgun? Well, it's not. :P
Seriously, you had me thinking "well, a few mancubi, a few hell knights, revenants by the dozen, a baron... And no super shotgun in sight, guess he's pulling a Doom 1 and there's no SSG in the level" right after I got the blue key.
Were the 50+ rockets and no rocket launcher in the level intentional? Actually, looking in the editor, I found one... In a place I'd never look for. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority or majority, but I don't usually tend to look hard into the lava. Consider making it a floating block of marble or something more visually obvious.

So, in short, great gameplay for UV with carryovers; from a pistol start it's hell, which might be what you're going for. Just gotta prune the monsters for medium and easy, consider moving the SSG somewhere earlier and you get a thumbs up from me.

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Thank you for your feedback.

Yes, maybe not all players enjoy fighting barons and mancubi with a shotgun. I will wait take this into consideration when I will update the level.

But I am really curious to read other comments. Maybe other players like tough fights.

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I don't mind the start. You can just skip the revs and barons ofc. Seems like this wasn't tested in the appropriate port, however, because a bunch of the hanging decorations in the four-circle area are infinitely tall, which is completely untenable. Didn't proceed beyond that.

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Adding to what rdwpa said about testing: Please test your maps in PRBoom+ -complevel 9. ZDoom/GZDoom/Zandronum will not simply not do the job, as you're bound to run into problems in PR+ that are not present in ZDoom.

Angry Saint, I have not yet played your map, but: Fighting mancs and barons with a single shotgun isn't necessarily what I'd call "tough" most of the time. Generally it leans more into the realm of boring gameplay. In fact, I'm gonna go out and say that all mappers for Nova III should generally try to generally avoid using barons. Now, I'm not saying "don't use them ever", but they're a very situation-specific monster and often, hell knights will fit their place much more nicely.

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Hi chaps, apologies for the lack of posts lately. I've been quite burnt out on Doom mapping (and Doom in general), and am just getting back into the swing of things. Anyway, I have a little feedback on a couple of the maps that have been posted over the past few weeks - sincity2100 and Angry Saint, I'll try and write something up over the next day or so for you both, too. I've just not really been able to think of anything constructive to say on anything, and this post has literally been in a state of half-completion for over a day now, so I figured I'd post what I have and post a little more later.

Also, I'm thinking of setting up a deadline in which to compile an initial alpha for testing. I'll compile whatever is submitted, although only maps that are in some kind of playable state (i.e. monsters, ammo, a start and an exit) should be submitted. My first guess is the 1st of June, although that's subject to change if anyone really wishes to post a map but is unable to do so by then. I'll look to stream the alpha on the day it is compiled, too, to give better feedback.

Anyway...

Albertoni - The opening of this map feels quite harsh, due to the lack of ammo I have. I'm not really able to kill the arachnotron at the start (in a way that's fun, at least), and the fact that I can never complete the ship area without using all of my resources is an issue. I feel that the berserk pack should be somewhere else, perhaps besides the switch that lowers the yellow key (so that first-time players don't miss it). The progression from the start of the map through to opening the yellow door istelf is fine, but needs balancing.

I think the issue of balancing is made worse once you get to the central teleport hub area, because there are so many resources there. After a few attempts at the map I was able to basically run from the yellow key, dodge everything, and get to the ammo so I can go back to the start of the map and start killing everything, where I have too much cover to make sure I'm safe and avoid damage.

Anyway, as for the teleport hub area itself, I thought it was by far the most interesting and memorable part of the map, and it would be cool to see if you could somehow work more of the map around this concept. What I mean is that each area of the map feels separate from it, barring the moments where you finish the red and blue key areas and pick up their corresponding keys. The starting area and the final arena particularly feel isolated in this way, and it's only really the visual aesthetic that holds them together.

So yeah, I feel that this map still requires a lot of work, particularly with balancing. The teleport areas all look great, and it would be really cool if you could somehow expand upon their gimmick (one area being more hellish, the other being overgrown and decrepit) in some way. Once you leave each teleport area and go to find their key the level design returns to a more generic temple style. When I stream this map I'll try to give more constructive feedback, as I feel I'm rambling on enough now. I have a lot more to say, and I actually feel like this could be one of the mapset's more memorable levels if its central idea can be properly expanded upon.

Benjogami - I think this map got enough feedback that I can't really think of anything original I can contribute. One thing that stood out to me that I don't think I've seen anyone else mention is that the lift you lower after raising the blue key bars needs a lot of refining. It's quite cinematic, and it's cool the first time you experience it, but if you fall off it for any reason you have to go through the super long wait of it lowering again. The fact that there's a secret that you access by jumping off the lift really compounds the fact that you have to ride it multiple times. I'm not 100% sure on what you could do to fix this, but I find it annoying enough that it needs some kind of attention.

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an_mutt said:

Benjogami - I think this map got enough feedback that I can't really think of anything original I can contribute. One thing that stood out to me that I don't think I've seen anyone else mention is that the lift you lower after raising the blue key bars needs a lot of refining. It's quite cinematic, and it's cool the first time you experience it, but if you fall off it for any reason you have to go through the super long wait of it lowering again. The fact that there's a secret that you access by jumping off the lift really compounds the fact that you have to ride it multiple times. I'm not 100% sure on what you could do to fix this, but I find it annoying enough that it needs some kind of attention.


Hmmm, I've got an idea that I'll try out. There's also a door behind the backpack ledge that lets you teleport to the top, but it's perhaps too hidden. And it won't help if you really want the extra box of shells... but that's just the price you pay, right?!

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Okay here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0o0j608wdqg5hb/bn5map28.wad?dl=1

Lift is now fast the next time that you lower it, the UV monster teleports are niftier and will be less confusing if observed, removed an extraneous secret sector, made blue armor harder to get, replaced useless powerup with a box of shells, changed some medkits to stimpacks, added more Boom features that no one will notice... etc. Hopefully I didn't break anything.

Thanks JohnSuitepee and dobu for their feedback as well!

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an_mutt said:

Also, I'm thinking of setting up a deadline in which to compile an initial alpha for testing. I'll compile whatever is submitted, although only maps that are in some kind of playable state (i.e. monsters, ammo, a start and an exit) should be submitted. My first guess is the 1st of June, although that's subject to change if anyone really wishes to post a map but is unable to do so by then.


Oh crap, I'd better get to working on a map then!

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A deadline would be good, might stop me floundering around doing other things. My map is probably about half done in actual structuring, but I need to work on making the finale, and what I have in mind for that is going to take a bit of work.

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Just to clarify: you don't need to have submitted a map by then. I will simply be compiling everything submitted by that date into an alpha release. The deadline is for folks who want people to start testing their stuff as soon as possible, and so that the people who have already submitted something will have some kind of substantial release to follow, in terms of people testing their maps, etc. I won't be bothering with any kind of full deadline for a while yet, not at least until I have a good 20-or-so maps or if enough mappers feel it to be necessary.

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There's a chance I'll drop out. I haven't begun a map, I've sort of fallen out of love with the moon aesthetic, I'm suffering from mapping block, I've been enjoying playing a lot more than mapping lately, and if I do work on something, I would rather work on a mapset than a single big map. And I've been feeling this way for a while.

I'll decide if I will within a couple of weeks, so that someone else gets the slot without too much of a delay if so.

Angry Saint said:

The Crow Comes Last, version 2.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/bxb9smwej9yxkch/tccl002.rar

New:

* some details
* implemented difficulty levels (sort of)
* you get earlier the SSG


An "FDA" (I remembered the first few areas from version 1) if you want. It's pretty boring and sloppy though (39:33 exit, no deaths).

http://www.mediafire.com/download/rfb9w85179f80gp/crowv2_rdwpa_fda.lmp

-- I decided to skip the first fight if possible, because single shotgunning things and dealing with infinitely tall lost souls is irritating, and I liked how the lost souls ended up following me to later areas.

-- The fights near the beginning with vines were very disorienting in a "bullshitty" way, because a projectile could randomly come through and hit you without you seeing it; the vine maze with that mancubus in particular was quite nasty. The circular room with the stairs, grating, and two revs is somewhat uncomfortable to fight in, at least in prBoom+ (I'm not sure how ZDoom handles bumping into irregularly shaped impassible lines, but prBoom+ doesn't do that well).

-- There are also a ton of hitscanners in the earlygoing and not that much health. (The ones in the start area -- and, to some extent, the ones in the rooms with the mancs -- are less of a problem than the ones that are encountered afterwards.) Later on, though, there was a bunch of health, probably 150-200% scattered around (and a green armor) that I didn't need, even after sloppy cleanup vs. the SSG revs.

-- The combination of the obtrusive vines and the hitscanners made it seem like the earlygoing was creating its challenge in an irritating sort of way.

-- It wasn't immediately clear how to leave the RK area. A switch that's revealed at some point (at a set time after grabbing the key I suppose) might make it more clear and also enforce a lock-in during the fights. I got short on ammo against the revs that were blocking the way out; I certainly would have ran out if I didn't decide to skip the two barons. I ended up having a lot of surplus ammo after that, however.

-- My favorite fight was the PE/manc/caco setup near the RL, although for some reason I thought it was a lock-in so I didn't try to camp it as I could have. Some of the later traps were relatively easy to see coming, with the 'monster warping behind your back' device being expected (since it was used so often) and also not really much of an obstacle.

-- The centerpiece encounters (imp horde + rev+pinky+imp warp-in at the RK area) were quite tame. Unmarked warp-ins at one particular nondescript spot can be shaky aesthetically (I end up thinking "Why do they love that one particular spot?"); it might look better if the monsters warped to a row of teleport pads or a small pool of liquid or something in that vein.

-- Last AV trap is a campfest. I almost got into trouble when I assumed it was a lock-in (I play too many Ribbiks maps lol :D), but you can just run away. Might be better to just get rid of the AV; it's impossible to play that area honestly (i.e., not run away) with it around anyway. An alternative would be to make it a lock-in (with the way out re-opened by the exit switch), and add some space behind the circular pillars so that they can be used for cover, and possibly get rid a few monsters to make the "played honestly" difficulty more commensurate with the rest of the level.

-- Overall suggestion gameplay-wise would be to move a lot of the early monsters (a good portion of the revs/HKs/hitscanners/etc. in the BK/SSG traps, the manc in the vine maze) to those centerpiece encounters, making them a lot tougher and the early stages somewhat less slow and campy. The arachnotrons on the outer wall also seemed superfluous. There was a row of four arachnotrons earlier on that was also very campy, but I liked this, because it was necessary to occasionally retreat like a madman to escape an impending plasma stream.

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So my map has been kinda sitting on my hard drive collecting virtual dust for two weeks or so...

Not dropping out, though, just figured I'd give a status update of sorts. One of the downsides to working on 4 or 5 projects at once is that I bounce in between them like a super-ball out of control. Might also help if I actually opened up Doom Builder and looked at what I've got so far.

Actually yeah, I'll do just that.

30-ish minutes later: Well, what do you know... I opened up the map and actually did something to it. PROGRESS!

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OK folks, I've updated the OP to confirm when the first alpha will be compiled. If you want people to look at your work and give feedback, then now is the time to get to work!

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I want to sign up for a backup slot in the Hell Episode. I have already begun a map (roughly 20% done), and I may be able to finish it before the first deadline.

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Cool, I've updated the OP w/ what was brought up in the last few posts, and I've put you down in a back-up slot Malrionn.

rdwpa: It's a shame that you're not feeling like making a map at the moment, I was really excited for what you might come up with. Hopefully you're feeling a touch more into making a map once you've had a think about everything!

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