Gridlock - A community project (maps aligned to the 64 units grid)

7 hours ago, Xabika2202 said:

I tested it with cc4-tex, but to fit the nature of the map, I'd like it to be a white sky.

Nevermind, I used the skytransfer as you suggested.

Here's the updated version.

Nice!
I included it in the wad.
Now we can test everything when I put up the next update.

We only need a CWILV for that map (Monochrome Mood - Xabika2202) and we're off to test.

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I tested Monochrome Mood and I noticed that the sky texture "N_ICE01" is marked as an unknown texture. What texture pack does that sky texture come from? Below is a screenshot of the issue.

Monochrome Mood Unknown Texture.png

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Ah it's nice to finally be able to end Phantasm lol.

 

Couple things I found weird in the new area:

- the grates from Heretic look out of place IMO - regular Doom2 grates would be just fine,

- the platform with the yellow keycard starts much higher than the sky's height, which is all the more noticeable with how long it takes for it to lower,

- the button to activate the platform was also a bit hard to find (good thing the area isn't too big). Some blinking light there too might help, I dunno.

Come to think of it, giving the key so close to the switch you use it on makes you wonder if the yellow switch or yellow key were necessary at all. :p

 

 

Other things I noticed in the WAD:

- Overgrowth's version is wrong. Link is on p.10. Also the sky texture never displayed correctly for me in that map with ZDoom.

- map 15 is missing a mapinfo secretnext = MAP31

- map 32 leads to map 02 instead of map 16

- map 11's mapinfo should be sky1 = "sky1" (currently sky2)

 

Also I'm not sure what should be the correct sky color for Crimson Castle. In the original wad it's cloudy/white, in the project wad it's night/blue, but given the map's name shouldn't it be hellish/red?

 

If you're willing to modify the map order a last time, 64 ways to die (27) is one of the easier hellish maps. It would fit better if it was moved up, I guess either just before or just after Blood Lake Penitentiary (I can't really tell which of the 2 is harder).

 

BladeRunner is actually fine at its current slot. It's slightly harder than Exit Wound and easier than Tower of Hope. Good job if it was done on purpose lol.

 

Additionally you might want to swap these too (I have no preference, just offering perspectives):

 

- Pillar64 (02) and Stiff (04)

PROS:

Stiff is much smaller and arguably easier

CONS:

Pillar64 is a higher quality map, having it earlier might be more motivating for players.

Stiff's song being Doom's E1M4, it's a cool nod to have it at 04.

 

- Trials of Iniquity (22) and Blood Cathedral (23)

PROS:

ToI is much larger

The following maps all happen to be long and hard, which would sort of split the hell levels in 2 sub parts—regular levels for warm up, followed by massive mazes of spam and frustration, with ToI between the turning point/gateway.

CONS:

Though much shorter, Blood Cathedral's huge difficulty spike at the end makes it arguably harder than ToI.

 

 

 

Latest maps reviews:

 

 

- 64 ways to die -

 

Only bad point IMO was the end part could have done without the cyberdemons. The fight was tedious and the area a little cramped to dodge, though I guess being trapped in corridors was the point. The spiderdemon didn't have much use either.

Rest was great. I really liked how consistent it was all around—medium size and difficulty, variety in the areas in looks and gameplay while each retaining the same size, diffculty and detail level (though the final part looked a bit poorer). I also liked how the hell theme was used in a clean and stylish kind of way rather than chaotic/horror.

 

I noticed a couple vertex mistakes:

- https://i.gyazo.com/10e666c00637ade0c960db0e6e193825.png not symmetrical with the others

- https://i.gyazo.com/0812d1f486f459aab7dcf27420a6c403.png not on the grid :(

 

 

- Bladerunner -

 

Got a mixed opinion on that one, because it's so long and so different as you progress.

Simply speaking the gameplay is divided in 2 parts:

- The beginning is following a single direction, mostly 64px corridors with hard monsters and barely any items.

Any time you find ammo you use all in the next fight and have to berserk a lot.

Like Exit Wound lots of areas felt downright cruel, overwhelming you with monsters and forcing you to retreat to try taking them 1 by 1.

No freedom + no ammo. It was exhausting to the point that for my 2nd playthrough I immediately went IDDQD.

- And then, at around 1/3rd of the map, you get to the large room with the 3 keys (which aren't used, weird) and the gameplay changes drastically, for the better.

Things start to open up (literally!), you can start choosing where to go, most fights get easier, and you start collecting ammo. The secrets are also interesting to hunt.

Personally I would have started the map there and removed everything before. :/ I'm not asking for this though lol.

 

And there's an entire optional last 3rd of the map, which is like a separate map (notably with its different theme) and was my favorite part. Lots of freedom!

I'm not sure why it was there but it was really cool.

 

Finally, because you have a lot of decoration with faces, I found it difficult to know what was a switch and what wasn't. Like here it really looks like decoration, and when you walk around the area it's not obvious that it's the objective.

Same here. It's not so bad since it's a secret but the map has multiple red blocks with faces like this and only this one reacts, so finding this one is hard.

 

 

- Monochrome Mood -

 

I like the greyness (but I'm a sucker for tech anyway), and the angular architecture (same thing). :)

The concept is simple but I guess it's fitting for a secret/bonus map.

I also find it funny that the green areas are all linked to the secret exit and that level happens to be all green. Was it on purpose? :D

 

The difficulty was okay, though the majority of monsters kill each other before you even see them, making the placement a bit weird.

I see no point in closing the 3 gates since there's no way you can survive inside the rooms before clearing them.

I liked the blocked archvile that greets you at the entrance of the blue area. Had several reloads there before I could escape fast enough.

The yellow area had the most interesting fight, forcing you to move around to avoid getting cornered. However I had trouble finding what to do to exit it. At first I IDCLIP'd out thinking I had to play blue and red first for yellow's exit to be open, but on the second try I saw I didn't complete the sequence of walking on the 3 squares. The last one is obvious but the first 2 not so much if you don't notice the first opens the second.

 

The secrets are fun but understanding what they do is confusing. First I don't think you need to hide the switch room from the automap. Showing the switch but placing it out of reach at first might help the players to understand this is what they're after.

 

There's a misaligned vertex here. Only saw it because of the visual glitch it causes in game.

Edited by Cyberia-Mix

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15 hours ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I tested Monochrome Mood and I noticed that the sky texture "N_ICE01" is marked as an unknown texture. What texture pack does that sky texture come from? Below is a screenshot of the issue.

Monochrome Mood Unknown Texture.png

This texture I also found in cc4-tex.wad, though it's not a regular sky texture, it worked just fine for me. Weird.

8 hours ago, Cyberia-Mix said:

- Monochrome Mood -

 

I like the greyness (but I'm a sucker for tech anyway), and the angular architecture (same thing). :)

The concept is simple but I guess it's fitting for a secret/bonus map.

I also find it funny that the green areas are all linked to the secret exit and that level happens to be all green. Was it on purpose? :D

 

The difficulty was okay, though the majority of monsters kill each other before you even see them, making the placement a bit weird.

I see no point in closing the 3 gates since there's no way you can survive inside the rooms before clearing them.

I liked the blocked archvile that greets you at the entrance of the blue area. Had several reloads there before I could escape fast enough.

The yellow area had the most interesting fight, forcing you to move around to avoid getting cornered. However I had trouble finding what to do to exit it. At first I IDCLIP'd out thinking I had to play blue and red first for yellow's exit to be open, but on the second try I saw I didn't complete the sequence of walking on the 3 squares. The last one is obvious but the first 2 not so much if you don't notice the first opens the second.

 

The secrets are fun but understanding what they do is confusing. First I don't think you need to hide the switch room from the automap. Showing the switch but placing it out of reach at first might help the players to understand this is what they're after.

 

There's a misaligned vertex here. Only saw it because of the visual glitch it causes in game.

Yes, the green secrets are on purpose :)

The major monster infighting was also intended, tha idea behind that is if someone wants to speedrun the map, they're going to have to put up a real fight. On the other hand, taking your time makes everything much easier.

Well, I apologize because of those "pressure plates", I don't know how to make them more obvious to step on. If somebody could help with this case, I'd appreciate it.

About the hidden secret area, I think the 2 walls that needs to be lowered first are easy to find (since automap doesn't hide them and they're directly activated) so they offer no reward, but there should be some difficulty finding the secret exit, which I think one can put the pieces together only when seeing the exits (the white and green telepads), so they may want to backtrack.

I fixed the misaligned vertex right away. Thanks for the heads-up.

In the yellow area, the medkit placement was my mistake, they're supposed to be in the middle of the lowering platforms, that is also fixed.

+ varied a little bit on the green area between the blue and yellow areas.

link

Edited by Xabika2202

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If you make a pressure plate lower when stepped on, it would be a strong clue that it does something.

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16 hours ago, Xabika2202 said:

Yes, the green secrets are on purpose :)

Neat idea to make that continuity then. :D

 

Players are more likely to step on the pressure plates if you put some item on them that they can always pick up, like backpacks. Light effects also help.

 

Quote

+ varied a little bit on the green area between the blue and yellow areas.

It does seem a bit better but either way I don't think there's much you can do with the 64u rule in such a small space to make it clear that players don't need to come to the middle from both sides. A switch would be best for that I guess, activated through grates or by shooting, but you would need a larger room first. Not a big issue anyway.

 

Quote

About the hidden secret area, I think the 2 walls that needs to be lowered first are easy to find (since automap doesn't hide them and they're directly activated) so they offer no reward, but there should be some difficulty finding the secret exit, which I think one can put the pieces together only when seeing the exits (the white and green telepads), so they may want to backtrack.

Yeah I agree with your thinking. It's just the final part that I find unreasonable, that players have no hint to find what they unlocked, and nothing catches attention to that place. There's no particular reason to think it lies in the BFG room that you may or may not have visited previously, or even to expect that you're looking for a hidden room and not something that opened recently. You could revisit the whole map and miss it.

Thankfully the map isn't that big and the switch not that badly hidden. Not finding the BFG before is actually helpful lol.

But even then, my stance is secrets need to be easy simply because players are accustomed to badly designed secrets in custom maps and expect BS by default, so they have no patience. It takes a damn good map to gain their trust and make them willing to be in your care. And I do think easy secrets help achieving that anyway.

Still, it's just my own view on the matter.

 

 

Edited by Cyberia-Mix

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Thanks for the notification Cyberia-Mix.

I've fixed the problems you mentioned.

Sadly, I don't think I'd change the map order any further. :(
It's a really tedious work and last time I did this, a lot of bugs emerged from that. Also, I think the current order is good as it is.
I updated every map to their current version, hopefully.

We're working on some graphics (new title, intermission, HUD, etc.) and hopefully it will be done soon.
I'll upload the next update during the week if those things will be completed.

Edit: Another thing: I guess we should make up a "real" name for the project. Any ideas?

Edited by FractalXX

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Sorry i've forgot to post for so long but I have to tag out, I see I've been marked as missing. I honestly don't have the drive to finish this level. Sorry about that

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On 6/6/2017 at 6:47 AM, FractalXX said:

Edit: Another thing: I guess we should make up a "real" name for the project. Any ideas?

Some ideas:

  • Grid64
  • 64by64
  • Vertex64
  • Gridlock
  • Aligned64
  • 64Units

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On 2017. 06. 09. at 9:36 PM, Nevander said:

Some ideas:

  • Grid64
  • 64by64
  • Vertex64
  • Gridlock
  • Aligned64
  • 64Units

For me, Gridlock seems the best.
Here's an M_DOOM graphic for it:
NJpFmjH.png
Also in the OP and updated the topic with the new name.

 

On 2017. 06. 09. at 9:19 PM, NoahMLG said:

Sorry i've forgot to post for so long but I have to tag out, I see I've been marked as missing. I honestly don't have the drive to finish this level. Sorry about that

No problem.

Edited by FractalXX

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Holy shit, this is still a thing... (After me being gone for an entire school year...)

 

Kinda surprised it's not finished yet... or dead...

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40 minutes ago, Royal_Sir said:

Holy shit, this is still a thing... (After me being gone for an entire school year...)

 

Kinda surprised it's not finished yet... or dead...

Of course it's not dead.
We're doing the last works right now.

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22 hours ago, Royal_Sir said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zy8tldi6w6b31f/Retrofitv6.wad?dl=0

 

Went through the thread. There was a complaint of a rogue vertex not on the 64 grid.

Ah that's nice. Now as far as I can tell there are only 3 maps left with not so gridlocked vertices: The Lost Tower, Through and Around, and 64 Ways to Die (maybe more).

Would be nice to have all of them in order for the project to live up to its name. :p

Some tool to check vertices coordinates would be handy but I have no idea if it exists or can be made.

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On 2017. 06. 13. at 3:18 AM, Royal_Sir said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zy8tldi6w6b31f/Retrofitv6.wad?dl=0

 

Went through the thread. There was a complaint of a rogue vertex not on the 64 grid.

 

-Fixed rogue vertex

-Optimized NW outside area by deleting the back sectors that served as walls

-Added decoration in the Red Key area.

Thanks! Will be included in the next update.

 

16 hours ago, Cyberia-Mix said:

Ah that's nice. Now as far as I can tell there are only 3 maps left with not so gridlocked vertices: The Lost Tower, Through and Around, and 64 Ways to Die (maybe more).

Would be nice to have all of them in order for the project to live up to its name. :p

Some tool to check vertices coordinates would be handy but I have no idea if it exists or can be made.

The author's will have to fix them. If someone goes missing or won't have time, I may fix them later.

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19 hours ago, Cyberia-Mix said:

Ah that's nice. Now as far as I can tell there are only 3 maps left with not so gridlocked vertices: The Lost Tower, Through and Around, and 64 Ways to Die (maybe more).

Would be nice to have all of them in order for the project to live up to its name. :p

Some tool to check vertices coordinates would be handy but I have no idea if it exists or can be made.

May I see exactly where I missed having gridlock in my map (Through and Around)?

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New HUD and other graphics are coming in V3.

 

uJBc8yE.png

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In the meantime, V3 is out.

It's only testing now (hopefully) + fixing rogue vertices.

Edited by FractalXX

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Nice. I'll include it in the next update.

EDIT: I looked at it.

I guess the link is wrong, since the rogue vertices are all still there.

Edited by FractalXX

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On 2017. 06. 15. at 8:03 AM, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I beat Monochrome Mood.

 

Holy...

I did not expect a video about my map, let alone a semi-speedrun!

Thanks!

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On 15/06/2017 at 9:21 AM, Soldier993 said:

Fixed my map's grid. Thanks to Cyberia-Mix for letting me know about my errors.

NP :)

 

While I'm at it:

- Lost Tower https://i.gyazo.com/55795c88381e9b886f5ae2f67df79f50.png

- Careless Infection https://i.gyazo.com/e9ed56d942a4ca0d83d5e58d172b151f.png

- 64 Ways to Die https://i.gyazo.com/0812d1f486f459aab7dcf27420a6c403.png - https://i.gyazo.com/10e666c00637ade0c960db0e6e193825.png (symmetry)

 

On 15/06/2017 at 0:51 AM, FractalXX said:

V3 is out.


Once again you're good at choosing songs. :D

 

 

Some remarks for possible improvements:

 

I'm not sure about the new title screen. It's rather dull and the actual maps aren't that blocky. I liked that the old title screen was straight to the point by showing the grid.

Actually the best thing might just be to write "64" or "Gridlock" or both in the editor in the same style as you did with the logo. (Possibly with extra lines and map things around for decoration.)

 

I also think it's fine to use the same pic for both the title and intermission screens. I see no reason to have two, plus the current intermission pic is unrelated to the project.

 

I like the new HUD, though I think the R and S need to be shaped more. They don't look as such right now.

 

You might want to improve horizontal centering on the CWILV gfx. Some look off in game, mostly THENERDTURTLE on 18 and XABIKA2202 on 31 (not sure about others).

 

 

I also noted various inconsistencies in the MAPINFO lump that may be visible on the intermission screens depending which port you play with:

(I don't know much about this so I may be wrong.)

 

- PrBoom doesn't use the "cluster" data so it shows story screens after map 06, 12 etc. like normal.

GZDoom and ZDoom use this data, and the current result is that there's a single story screen in the whole game after map 13.

Since there's no story in the project I would recommend having a "cluster = 1" line for all maps.

(I have no idea if it's possible to disable story screens in PrBoom.)

 

- Because of the same "cluster" inconsistency, in ZDoom 2.8.1 (PrBoom and GZDoom are unaffected) the second intermission screen that shows the next map's name and author only appears if this line is present.

One more reason to have that "cluster = 1" line for all maps.

(I usually play with ZDoom, else I wouldn't have noticed.)

 

- Some maps have a par time, most don't. I don't know if it was set by the mapper or if it's the result of some bad copy/pasting.

 

- Some maps have a "sucktime". It doesn't hurt but since it's highly unlikely that they last more than 1 hour those lines are pointless.

 

- Other unnecessary lines:

MAP 24 levelnum = 1

MAP 24 secretnext = "MAP31"

MAP 32 levelnum = 1

MAP 32 titlepatch = "DINOSAUR FOOT"

 

 

Also for some reason i see the DEHACKED lump twice in XWE. One of them with outdated level names.

 

 

Finally, a couple questions about the maps themselves:

 

Pinball and Dinosaur Foot used to have custom songs that were cut off for copyright reasons. Don't sudo459 and Martian Doomer want to try picking other custom songs rather than using default ones?

Also what about copyright for resampled songs? Pillar64 and Survive!'s songs are originally from Unreal Tournament, and Nazi-Festung's song from Chrono Trigger, although they all sound noticeably different.

 

I asked this previously but I'm not sure if TheNerdTurtle and Soldier993 chose the sky texture in their maps since they don't have transfer lines and were moved around in the map order.

 

Edited by Cyberia-Mix

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Speaking of music, here is a great song for my Hellkeep map. It is a Doom MUS lump from heroes2.wad, with permission granted in heroes2.txt:

hkeepmus.zip

Edited by Empyre

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11 hours ago, Cyberia-Mix said:

NP :)

 

While I'm at it:

- Lost Tower https://i.gyazo.com/55795c88381e9b886f5ae2f67df79f50.png

- Careless Infection https://i.gyazo.com/e9ed56d942a4ca0d83d5e58d172b151f.png

- 64 Ways to Die https://i.gyazo.com/0812d1f486f459aab7dcf27420a6c403.png - https://i.gyazo.com/10e666c00637ade0c960db0e6e193825.png (symmetry)

 


Once again you're good at choosing songs. :D

 

 

Some remarks for possible improvements:

 

I'm not sure about the new title screen. It's rather dull and the actual maps aren't that blocky. I liked that the old title screen was straight to the point by showing the grid.

Actually the best thing might just be to write "64" or "Gridlock" or both in the editor in the same style as you did with the logo. (Possibly with extra lines and map things around for decoration.)

 

I also think it's fine to use the same pic for both the title and intermission screens. I see no reason to have two, plus the current intermission pic is unrelated to the project.

 

I like the new HUD, though I think the R and S need to be shaped more. They don't look as such right now.

 

You might want to improve horizontal centering on the CWILV gfx. Some look off in game, mostly THENERDTURTLE on 18 and XABIKA2202 on 31 (not sure about others).

 

 

I also noted various inconsistencies in the MAPINFO lump that may be visible on the intermission screens depending which port you play with:

(I don't know much about this so I may be wrong.)

 

- PrBoom doesn't use the "cluster" data so it shows story screens after map 06, 12 etc. like normal.

GZDoom and ZDoom use this data, and the current result is that there's a single story screen in the whole game after map 13.

Since there's no story in the project I would recommend having a "cluster = 1" line for all maps.

(I have no idea if it's possible to disable story screens in PrBoom.)

 

- Because of the same "cluster" inconsistency, in ZDoom 2.8.1 (PrBoom and GZDoom are unaffected) the second intermission screen that shows the next map's name and author only appears if this line is present.

One more reason to have that "cluster = 1" line for all maps.

(I usually play with ZDoom, else I wouldn't have noticed.)

 

- Some maps have a par time, most don't. I don't know if it was set by the mapper or if it's the result of some bad copy/pasting.

 

- Some maps have a "sucktime". It doesn't hurt but since it's highly unlikely that they last more than 1 hour those lines are pointless.

 

- Other unnecessary lines:

MAP 24 levelnum = 1

MAP 24 secretnext = "MAP31"

MAP 32 levelnum = 1

MAP 32 titlepatch = "DINOSAUR FOOT"

 

 

Also for some reason i see the DEHACKED lump twice in XWE. One of them with outdated level names.

 

 

Finally, a couple questions about the maps themselves:

 

Pinball and Dinosaur Foot used to have custom songs that were cut off for copyright reasons. Don't sudo459 and Martian Doomer want to try picking other custom songs rather than using default ones?

Also what about copyright for resampled songs? Pillar64 and Survive!'s songs are originally from Unreal Tournament, and Nazi-Festung's song from Chrono Trigger, although they all sound noticeably different.

 

I asked this previously but I'm not sure if TheNerdTurtle and Soldier993 chose the sky texture in their maps since they don't have transfer lines and were moved around in the map order.

 

Thanks about the songs. :)

Actually, I might change the font on the HUD as I had problems with the scale. The font size is basically the same as it is on the vanilla HUD but it scales differently for some reason.

 

I guess I'll never be satisfied with the title screens. :D
Will change them too. The Interpic has to be changed as well.

 

The CWILVs weren't made by me, so they will have to be updated by the authors.

 

I totally forgot about the cluster attribute, I'll fix it soon.

 

I didn't know about the duplicate DEHACKED. Mainly because I use SLADE3 and it only shows the new one for me. To be honest I don't really like XWE.

 

About the songs:
idgames has a rule that copyrighted MP3s and OGGs can't be included. This rule doesn't apply for MIDIs, or any format that's based on that + impulse tracker songs are also allowed, but in any port below zDoom (compatibility, or feature-wise) only MIDIs/MUSs can be played.

 

Speaking of music, here is a great song for my Hellkeep map. It is a Doom MUS lump from heroes2.wad, with permission granted in heroes2.txt:

hkeepmus.zip

 

I'll include it.

Edited by FractalXX

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