[FOUND] Doom Sky source files

[Doomkid]

Jaxxoon R said:

So who here's willing to take a pilgrimage to all the Doom sky mountains?

If I had the money, I'd love to - Doom: Paradise on Earth. Featuring skies cropped from only the most gorgeous mountains.

[40oz]

I'm not at my computer currently and wont be for a few days, but is anyone able to do a comparison of the Memento Mori skies? The resemblance of the Memento Mori skies to the Doom E2 sky is undeniable, but is it recolored by ripping it from the wad? Or did whoever made the Memento Mori skies also use this picture as a base? The way the shadows project on the mountains look especially familiar which is why I ask.

[AD_79]

MM SKY1



Doom SKY2

[antares031]

40oz said:

I'm not at my computer currently and wont be for a few days, but is anyone able to do a comparison of the Memento Mori skies? The resemblance of the Memento Mori skies to the Doom E2 sky is undeniable, but is it recolored by ripping it from the wad? Or did whoever made the Memento Mori skies also use this picture as a base? The way the shadows project on the mountains look especially familiar which is why I ask.

Here you go. I doubled the size of sky texture from MM for easier comparison.

Well, now it is obvious that one of authors from Memento Mori knew the source of sky texture, back in mid-90s.

[Doomkid]

This is a side note, but I find it baffling how many 90's mappers knew the nitty gritty about this game (source art, technical details, sprite tiling techniques etc) and, apparently, shared none of this guru knowledge with the public.

[Fonze]

AD_79 said:

MM SKY1


Doom SKY2

The MM sky looks like a zoomed-out version of the Doom 2 sky and the pics antares showed are spot on as well. This is cool stuff guys and I'd like to see some new skies based on these really sweet pictures in upcoming wads! It's also kinda cool to see how Id added stuff on the sides to make these things tile better from their originals.

[Jasper Carmack]

antares031 said:

http://puu.sh/mVcBX/3a179b257d.gif

Here you go. I doubled the size of sky texture from MM for easier comparison.

Well, now it is obvious that one of authors from Memento Mori knew the source of sky texture, back in mid-90s.

Since I've been searching very deeply for these, I figure I might divulge some interesting tidbits;

I could be wrong, being a tiny kid back in 1992-1993, but it -seems- that going through ancient FTP directories and places like archive.org cds, cd.textfiles, etc, that there wasn't really a huge amount of images on the net.

If I search for say, images of space from that era, there's maybe 4-5 instances of RSKY2s source file (columbia) that will constantly show up on hundreds of random sources, from archives to disks. The exact one used shows up multiple times under multiple names, from multiple areas and disks. The same goes for searching for stuff like mountains, a lot of the doom photos pop up, usually on antiquated christian sites with badly compressed versions of the images and bible quotes on them.

So I think back then, it was probably not terribly hard to find things like this sky, at least in the early to mid 90s. These GIFs were often used on sites, distributed around the web, and due to the relatively small amount of common photos floating around like this at the time, it was probably a lot easier to track down. They're also found on almost all "101 Royalty free images" and stock image cds from the time.

I've uploaded the source files for SKY2 below in the best quality I can find on the discs. It looks like 640x480 was the largest they were ever kept at, but I might see if I can track down the original photographers if I can. Tom Atwood did the well known Yangshuo sky, and OS/2 had a higher resolution version but it had reduced color volume and was a GIF.

Fore/Mountains
BG/sky

I also hope to find the source of a sky I saw in "MARKINC".wad. I don't remember how, when or where I got it (except vaguely that it was possibly called something like "Mortal Kombat doom" or something random), but it had a gorgeous sky in it;

[Gez]

Blackmantis said:

They're also found on almost all "101 Royalty free images" and stock image cds from the time.

Really, the most surprising thing nowadays is that "101" seemed like a big number back then. I imagine if such a disc was released nowadays, there'd be a hundred thousand pictures on it.

[printz]

I hate how the clouds are mirrorred in the last sky texture posted, even though the mountain themselves look spot-on with Episode 3's aerial image.

What about the Heretic mountain skies? Or the Thy Flesh Consumed sky (yeah I saw you speculate it's just hand-drawn based on the E3 outro, but still)

[el zee]

printz said:

What about the Heretic mountain skies?

The mountains themselves are CG. The clouds/sky look like they could be based off real images though.

[RestlessRodent]

Blackmantis said:

I think it would be safe to say that we now pretty much have all of the photo textures that ID used that weren't taken by themselves. Since the images are royalty free, I'm thinking I'll upload the entire CD set.

Be careful with this, just because it is royalty free does not mean you can just upload all of it and give it away for free. Some royalty free sources give you a license to use their stuff as you see fit provided you actually use them for something and not just upload/sell the collection they granted to you. If it is not on archive.org, you can probably talk to them and their lawyers to see if you can get it uploaded onto the site.

[printz]

It would be funny if a new OS X release is themed after the Zion national park and uses the Watchman as its default wallpaper.

[Jasper Carmack]

GhostlyDeath said:

Be careful with this, just because it is royalty free does not mean you can just upload all of it and give it away for free. Some royalty free sources give you a license to use their stuff as you see fit provided you actually use them for something and not just upload/sell the collection they granted to you. If it is not on archive.org, you can probably talk to them and their lawyers to see if you can get it uploaded onto the site.

Well, if the images are royalty free, then I'll just have to make my own "product" which uses these images and distribute that. I'll call it "Doom sky distributor" or something. ;)

Thanks for the advice though, I'll check around. Two of the cds are already on Archive.org, although all ultimately come from Aris Entertainments "Media Clips" collection.

[nukeykt]

The colump lamp is based on Tootsie toy gatling

[esselfortium]

Holy crap, amazing! So many properly mind-melting connections made in this thread.

Another great one I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet is that TANROCK8 is based on the big tree sprite.

[DooM_RO]

For some reason, I am almost certain BROWN1 is based on a real wall...

[ASD]

I wonder if the hanged victims have sources too.

[GreyGhost]

One or more of the SP_DUDE textures might be based on photographs of Benito Mussolini and some of his henchmen, whose bodies were displayed in the Piazzale Loreto. There's plenty of photos and even some newsreel footage of the event.

[joe-ilya]

esselfortium said:

Another great one I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet is that TANROCK8 is based on the big tree sprite.

I thought it was obvious.

[Dav_NW]

GreyGhost said:

One or more of the SP_DUDE textures might be based on photographs of Benito Mussolini and some of his henchmen, whose bodies were displayed in the Piazzale Loreto. There's plenty of photos and even some newsreel footage of the event.

They mixed the legs of Mussolini with the upper body of Clara petacci, his mistress, which was hanged right beside him.

[IMX]

Winged_Warrior said:

They mixed the legs of Mussolini with the upper body of Clara Petacci, his mistress, which was hanged right beside him.

And I can back this up.

Also, it is worth noting that id software photo-scanned a picture of Adolf Hitler and used it as a texture for Wolf3D (I might be wrong, but I think Blackmantis discovered this), and it also has been documented through Masters of Doom (can't remember the pages atm, will edit this post once I find them again) how Adrian Carmack used to scan lots of WWII pictures and was tired of doing so.

There's a really high chance, taking note of past evidence shown in recent discoveries made over the past two years, that id software recycled unused assets from the development of Wolfenstein 3D for DOOM, and one of those unused assets might have been that one infamous picture of Benito Mussolini's public hanging in 1945.

Edit: the fact that this subject was brought up again makes me want to redo that post now that there's a lot of evidence of id software literally photo-scanning all the things in the world for the development of DOOM. I'm not sure how people would take that info., though.

[printz]

IMX said:

And I can back this up.

Strange that I'm not surprised. There has always been something really Italian/1940s about the clothing of those dead bodies. Also quite out of place in Doom 1; much more fitting in Wolfenstein 3D.

[Da Werecat]

Are there any bodies of this kind in E1? They might be quite literally souls from the past stuck in hell.

[Gez]

IMX said:

Edit: the fact that this subject was brought up again makes me want to redo that post now that there's a lot of evidence of id software literally photo-scanning all the things in the world for the development of DOOM.

Proceed.

[printz]

I wonder who the one legged body is. Another fascist from the same group?

[kuchitsu]

Uhh, do you guys really believe that Mussolini stuff? Can't you find thousands of similar photos of hanged people?

[Jon]

kuchitsu said:

Uhh, do you guys really believe that Mussolini stuff? Can't you find thousands of similar photos of hanged people?

I believe it, and I'd rather not go looking for more pictures of hanged people to try and prove myself wrong.

[Gez]

This line in the multigen source file makes me think they may have used a picture of a GI Joe toy to make the impaled marines, with perhaps some editing bits brought from the zombie.

; Bloody, twitching G.I.Joe
S_BLOODYTWITCH	GOR1	A	10	NULL	S_BLOODYTWITCH2
S_BLOODYTWITCH2	GOR1	B	15	NULL	S_BLOODYTWITCH3
S_BLOODYTWITCH3	GOR1	C	8	NULL	S_BLOODYTWITCH4
S_BLOODYTWITCH4	GOR1	B	6	NULL	S_BLOODYTWITCH

[Revenant100]

Parts of the original hanging corpses are almost certainly hand drawn and not sourced from any photographic material, including the alleged Mussolini body sprite. We can find evidence to support this idea by looking at the textures in the Jaguar port which includes what appear to be early versions of the hanging corpses. On the left is Jaguar's MARBLE03 and in the center is PC's WALL51_3, or SP_DUDE5 if you prefer:



The folds, shading, and shape of the pants match, and so does the crease in the guy's chest.

[Da Werecat]

Many Jaguar assets appear to be someone's questionable attempts to take the PC graphics and make them neater. Worse doesn't always mean early.