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Jaws In Space

TNT Revilution: Final release now on ID Games!

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11 hours ago, Jaws In Space said:

2 Drawseg overflows on map 14, the one to the north could be killed by removing one of those steps I think, the southern one needs a bit more work. Also Steve I got up to 126 visplanes by the Plasma Gun, but wasn't able to get higher than that, so looks like that's no longer an issue.

Map14 Not Vanilla.png

You're looking with CRL, I reckon. As per Tarnsman's advice, I decided to use CRL mainly as a guide to potential trouble, and use Chocolate Doom as the final verdict. If it doesn't show up or cause a slowdown in Chocolate Doom, it doesn't matter. On these issues, the northern one is something that should only show up after you get the PG and open the door to the secret health and cells. I did a lot of work on the room with the goodies because it used to have 3 windows and gave a quite serious HOM, though I never checked in Choco Doom. When I checked the current version in Choco Doom, there was no problem. There's also no reason for a player to go there after getting the PG and no reason to hide behind the crate and wiggle around even if they did so. ;) On the southern issue, that whole area was my biggest nightmare. I spent 2 or 3 weeks -- off and on -- deleting, checking, deleting and re-checking everything in CRL. There used to be more stairs, terraced rock walls, way more curves and whatnot. Indeed, all those bitsy islands exist to prevent the player from backing up towards the waterfall. Bad things happen if you do that. ;D Again, I encountered no issues in Choco Doom, even though it's possible to get seg violations in CRL if you try hard enough. But you won't get a HOM and the game won't crash, so IMO these 2 issues can be ignored.

 

I can give both areas another check in Choco Doom before turning the map in, just to be extra sure. Maybe someone can play it in dosbox?

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Grumbling & Growling.... Okay so I tested you map again, in Chocolate Doom this time :P I'll let the northern drawseg slide as I couldn't recreate it, fucking CRL piece of shit. The southern one on the other hand I was able to duplicate, the image doesn't really do the HOM justice, it's quite noticeable. Really though Steve I think your approach to solving the issue is all wrong, what's really killing you here is that hallway behind the yellow door. I know how you love your bar doors, I remember you having a similar issue with your Nuclear Plant map for UDINO, but if you just made that yellow door a solid door that didn't stay open it would not only eliminate the HOMs, but you could also add more exterior detail & get rid of those little islands.

 

Map 16 bugs. One too many scrolling lines & one visplane overflow.

Map 14 HOM.png

Map16 Visplanes.png

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On 4/16/2017 at 10:37 AM, Jaws In Space said:

Grumbling & Growling.... Okay so I tested you map again, in Chocolate Doom this time :P I'll let the northern drawseg slide as I couldn't recreate it, fucking CRL piece of shit. The southern one on the other hand I was able to duplicate, the image doesn't really do the HOM justice, it's quite noticeable. Really though Steve I think your approach to solving the issue is all wrong, what's really killing you here is that hallway behind the yellow door. I know how you love your bar doors, I remember you having a similar issue with your Nuclear Plant map for UDINO, but if you just made that yellow door a solid door that didn't stay open it would not only eliminate the HOMs, but you could also add more exterior detail & get rid of those little islands.

Jaws, I always yield to facts. You got the screenshot backing you up, and you have the correct suggested change. Yes, I do love my bar doors. They're so cool. It's a habit I picked up from PhantomTMac when we worked on the Team Mapping Project. I like using them for doors that aren't supposed to open, but are not key doors, so you get the idea it's supposed to be opened from elsewhere. I got to where I hate it when a door that's not a key door refuses to open, and such doors will never appear in my maps. Except this one! ;D Because it'll be yellow key on one side and no key from the outside, and it'll be wait/close, as you suggest. Thanks for the idea, man! I guess maybe I got a little tunnel-visioned to a point where I didn't even think about that, and blamed it all on the window looking into the Backpack hallway with its gradient lighting. It's all about that sense of place. ;)

 

I might add a little more detail or at least some more curves, and I might also have a walking trigger bring up some monsters, heh. I'll have it in before the week is out.

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Map21:

 

Switch action 101 ( s1 raise to lowest ceiling) on linedef 795 fails to lower sector 91.

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Map 19 bug: You know I was about to award this map the most vanilla friendly in the set, didn't hit 100 visplanes once, but then I got to the exit room. Drawsegs & Visplanes in this corner :(

Map 19 not vanilla.png

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Oh shit I thought I had checked everywhere, going to fix that for sure.

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Because I don't want to loose any progress in a computer crash, which is unfortunately somewhat likely these days, I'm going to upload another beta. Maps 1-20 should be in their final iterations here, except for maps 11, 14, 16, & 19 which I need updates for. Testing might get a bit slow as I enter the big maps of E3, but it's the weekend so I'm trying to do a bit of catching up.

 

Revilution Beta

 

Edited by Jaws In Space

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I realise it might be because you haven't reached the high map numbers in your process yet, but I am going to nag a bit anyway just to make sure; MAP27 is still missing coop starts.

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16 hours ago, Jaws In Space said:

except for maps 11, 14, 16, & 19 which I need updates for.

Did you miss my post jaws?

 

Here's the fixed map.

 

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I once thought that I had a somewhat decent grasp on vanilla, but this wad has taught that I actually don't know shit about it. Help Please. On map 21, in chocolate only, sectors 11, 70, & 119 don't lower, what's up with that.

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17 minutes ago, tourniquet said:

Whats the matter? Just played it in choco and they all lowered properly.

That doesn't make any sense at all. I just downloaded B6 just to be absolutely positive I had a version that I didn't make any changes to, loaded it up in chocolated doom, not CRL, & sectors 11, 70, & 119 don't lower.

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I've played with Chocolate Doom 2.2.1 which should be the latest version. Just tried it again to be sure i made no mistake and it worked again. Dunno maybe someone else wants to try it in order to confirm either Jaws or me.

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I managed to quickly reproduce Jaws' problem but only with monsters. The floors lower properly in -nomo, or when any monsters in the vicinity have been killed. What you need to do is move the remote offmap dummy sectors into the void space near sectors 11/70/119. 


This post by scifista should help you understand what is happening and why: 

 

On 2/3/2017 at 3:23 AM, scifista42 said:

[...] If there is any thing stuck within the area of a sector's bounding box, the sector can't move. The bounding box of joined sectors spans the entire rectangular area around all parts of the sector, so that the bounding box of your sector 1 might be spanning the area where this monster is, or another stuck thing somewhere else in the map, especially if the sector is also joined with other sectors in the map that can't be seen in this screenshot.


Basically, this is like one big sector in vanilla.

 

Also we need an encyclopedia of helpful scifista posts. :D 

 

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58 minutes ago, tourniquet said:

I've played with Chocolate Doom 2.2.1 which should be the latest version.

2.3.0 has been out for months now

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I' starting to understand why Kyka left this map in a half finished state in his attempt to make it vanilla. That yellow door is going to have to be replaced by a solid wall & teleporter, that will solve the visplane issue & the majority of the drawsegs, otherwise this map will need some serious editing. Even if I do that though, I'm not sure if I'll be able to keep the secret with the horde of revenants, I'll try my best.

Map 21 not vanilla 2.png

Map 21 not vanilla.png

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4 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

here's my fix to Devil's Den.  I found out I was over the scrolling wall limit by 1 linedef.

That's not where the player 1 start goes :)

I'm going to have to put a know bug in the text file for map 16. The VPO spot that I noted earlier doesn't appear when just walking, but when I got hit with an arch-vile blast I hit 140+ in that very spot. Since it's such a specific event that needs to happen I'm alright with leaving it in.

 

Also speaking of specific events, map 22 is also getting a known bug, because holy shit I was in the exit room & got hit by an arch-vile & then a cyber rocket & that caused the visplanes to go through the roof.

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1 hour ago, Jaws In Space said:

That's not where the player 1 start goes :)

Ahah I told myself to remember that too; shows how good my memory is :P

 

And yeah, I suspected the AVs could prove to be a nuisance, but the big archvile room is about as good as it's gonna get in my hands. For MAP22 if we really needed to save some visplanes I'm sure we could delete the bars overhead, but I'm really hesitant to scrap that particular detail, since I already ditched a whole bunch of other sectors to make sure it wouldn't bypass the limit on the ground/in the lava. This kind of "if an archvile hits you in this direction while you're looking over here you'll get a VPO" is precisely the reason why I'm done with vanilla mapping.

 

EDIT: That and how visplanes work in general is dumb and slightly unpredictable

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I'm with my man Dobu. No more vanilla ever! Going over the scroll limit by 1 linedef has to hurt. I'm happy with my maps and this is a cool project, but it takes too long to squash all these vanilla bugs. I made 13 vanilla maps in the '90s and now these 2, so that's enough and I'm done praying to the Vanilla God.

 

I wanna say cheers to Jaws for going at this final leg like a beast. I'm glad it's not me. ;)

 

Just wanna say I'm on the final polish of Map14. I should have it ready tomorrow. I added a few monsters and some ammo but it seems a bit tight, so I'll do a zero-secret playthrough before putting it up. I decided not to add new detail outside since that's asking for trouble, so instead I added interior detail and got a brand-new drawseg error from an odd angle outside looking in. That area had always been close to the limit, now it's over by a little. I didn't get the purple HOM message and I didn't see it in Choco Doom. I'll try it in Choco again tomorrow and describe where to see it from in CRL.

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10 minutes ago, Steve D said:

I wanna say cheers to Jaws for going at this final leg like a beast. I'm glad it's not me. ;)

The final month's of any vanilla megawad are pure misery. Honestly after Switcheroom & Revilution I've grown pretty damned tired of it. My recently announced Perdition's Gate project will most certainly be the end of vanilla projects for me.

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Map 26 Bugs:

No Difficulty settings
Things 43 & 308 stuck
Things 102 & 231 stuck
Things 103 & 322 stuck
Things 78 & 319 stuck
Line 801 missing texture
Line 108 Tutti Frutti & missaligned vertically
Sector 195 didn't raise

These guys didn't teleport in

Didn't teleport.png

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In MAP32 (as it appears in b6), tag 30 can block progression in coop if no one survives the trap to unlock the area. Or at least this seemed to be the issue people got stuck on in the server; I wasn't able to spot a way around it while taking a quick look in DB.

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Map24:

 

Not a bug report (hopefully), but just curious.  If a rocket jump is required to get that megasphere on the crate, that's a dirty trick.  I swear I fooled around in that room for at least 15 minutes. :P

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Map 28, no bugs. In fact rather shockingly this is the most vanilla friendly map in Revilution, yes seriously this map, I got less visplanes here than I did in map 23, well done Pinchy. Though I do have a complaint, the spectres & demons that teleport in when you cross line 3135 are seriously dickish, nothing like reaching the top of a platforming section only to fall due to infinity tall monsters.

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