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Jaws In Space

TNT Revilution: Final release now on ID Games!

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Is there a chance of free map slot? I would love to work on project like this.. absolutely okay to be a tester at least or something :)

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Jaws In Space said:

Cool these sound great, I'll get these updated midi's into Revilution ASAP. Also I'm assuming that you didn't notice, but I am using the midi REQ-JD10 for map 23, so when ever you have the free time I'd like to have the finished version of that midi up as well.


Thank you! I'd been slacking and hadn't really worked on it, but here's the finished version of REQ-JD10.MID, renamed "Transduction". The first part was a work in progress for Requiem that never got finished. Hope it works for your map 23!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B79YBwbj0yrTaFFyUGZkNU9vemc

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^ Heh, kinda silly to have a midi named "Transduction" not assigned to the map named "Transduction".

Anyway, here is Pharaoh's Claim, ready for playtesting on UV. Regarding visplanes, I tried to take care of them all but there's a couple of instances where I bet people will find an angle that'll pass the 128 limit... take a screenshot for me if that happens, please.

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[quote="dobu gabu maru" post="1620646"]
^ Heh, kinda silly to have a midi named "Transduction" not assigned to the map named "Transduction".

Ah, my mistake the word must have stuck in my mind. That wouldn't make sense at all.

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Fda for Pharaoh's Claim, made on Prboom+ cl 2. Definetely better than the previous version of MAP22, everything looks allright. I really liked the computer map secret though I didn't get it at first and I fell to the trap. I didn't feel brave enough to kill everything in the final battle and I just flee to the exit.

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Fda for Valkiriforce's MAP24, made always on PRBoom+ cl2. It's quite long, it took me more than 40 minutes to beat but I think that it's fine as it is. It looks really cool and it was extremely fun to play.

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Is Convilution part mostly made from finished maps but excluded from main megawad? I want to play some TNT wad but will wait for main megawad to be finished, won't play public beta until is done. ;P

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FearTheReaper said:

Is Convilution part mostly made from finished maps but excluded from main megawad? I want to play some TNT wad but will wait for main megawad to be finished, won't play public beta until is done. ;P


Convilution is made up of all the maps rejected from both TNT Devilution (except a few recent rejects) & TNT Revilution in total there are 18 maps in there as of right now & all of them are finished.

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I have this rule – never play a Dobu map on UV. That's because bad things happen to me when I do this. Nonetheless, I broke my rule in order to test Dobu's latest map for Revilution. Of course, it's also co-designed by Olympus and Kyka, so I'm guessing Dobu came in and did a lot of tweaking and finishing. I can't help wondering what the original was like.

Much to my surprise, I actually finished this map –- thanks to savescumming! -- and without breaking the all-time SteveD death-count record Dobu already owns – 85 – in the process, so this was a big success! ;D

The toughest part for me was the opening. A very vicious set-up with one immediately alert Revvie, four deaf ones turned away on columns, and annoying Pinkies and Imps acting as threats, meat shields and moving walls. On several attempts, when I tried grabbing the Rocket Launcher, I got blocked by these pesky underlings.

I died about 10 times testing the defenses and examining the paths out of the opening room. I nearly succeeded in surviving long enough to achieve my first save so I could establish a beachhead on these hostile shores, but in the end I decided to clean out the opening room so I'd have a safe spot at my back as I pushed into the map.

A major theme of this map is weapon and ammo limitation. You get a Rocket Launcher and the Single Shotty, and for a very long time, that's it, my friends. The single shotty is a peashooter against the heavy meat you find – including a significant number of Archies – and the RL puts you in very uncomfortable situations any time a mid-tier monster gets close to you. As a result, I spent a lot of time backing away to get distance, or even giving up on some fights entirely and choosing another path so I could grab more shells or rockets.

After clearing out the opening room, I went into the Caco room to stock up on rockets, then to the lower area where an Archie guards a Green Armor. Luckily, the Archie is off to the side of the opening and can't immediately see you, so I was able to show my shoulder and draw out the Imps and hitscanners – literally one by one – and terminate them on the upper level so as to deny Archie any little jagoffs to resurrect when I finally engaged him. Once Archie was dead there was another nice little trap and a path opened to a dark area soaked in blood. I ultimately chose to defer battle until later after I got killed when enemy fire exploded a barrel next to me. I was also running out of ammo with mid-tier enemies and Spectres in the area.

After running away, I prevailed over the area where a Manc was guarding a bunch of rockets, and then pushed through into an area where I glimpsed the Computer Map secret. This was the only secret I ever laid eyes on. The secrets in this map are extremely obtuse, almost pcorfian. I never got that Computer Map because this is where Dobu goes all TNT on our ass by connecting it – seemingly – to a really nasty switch puzzle in lava. Since I was clearly in the late stages of the map judging by the monster count – I played on GZDoom – I said “Screw it,” and pressed on. One great thing that happened is that Dobu finally put a Chaingunner on ground level as opposed to the many that inhabited elevated sniper holes, and at last I snagged the Chaingun I'd been fiending for since the start. Don't expect a lot of bullets to go with it, though. :D

By and by I get to the exit area. After taking it in the teeth a few times, I discovered that both fights – first the Arachnotrons and then King Cybie and his friends – are easily cheesable, so cheese them I did, because I was hoping to get 100% kills. Well, that never happened. :D And to show you how cruel and heartless Dobu is, you don't get an SSG or Plasma Gun until you get behind the Cyb and the Archies and Revvies, at which point you can just race to the exit if there's nothing to stop you. Instead, I ran to my special place and let the Cyb kill most of the monsters for me before I came out and dusted him off, along with that aggravating PE.

You get what you expect from a Dobu map – beautiful visuals and a heapin' helpin' of raw brutality. This is somewhat easier than some of his maps, and the combat situations are interesting, sometimes devious. Running through the start can have dire consequences because the defenses are pretty deep, so the only way to get a breather is to kill enough critters so you can pause for a moment. This is easier said than done – for me, at least – because monsters trickle after you from other areas and your initial ammo runs out fast, so you might end up trying to pistol-kill a Manc.

All in all, I thought this was a lot of fun. Even the toughest battles are designed in such a way that a player of my meager skill was not completely discouraged, because I saw that if I just made one or two right moves for once, I could prevail. This gave an aspirational feel to the combat rather than a soul-crushing one.

I like the way the final combat area was staged. It had a sense of epic grandeur. Cheers to Doomhuntress also for the pulse-pounding BGM. This map lived up to it!

My final stats;
Kills – 76%, Items – 65%, Secrets – ZERO!!!! End Health – 85, Armor – 44. Death Count – North of 20. End Ammo: Bullets – 104, Shells – 0, Rockets – 42, Cells – 146. Monsters Killed – 190 of 249

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Thanks for story time Steve, always fun to see how you persevere through my devious constructions. If you're interested in the original version, you can download it here. Also, shame you missed the secrets--they're definitely my favorite part of the map.

Here's an update to Pharaoh's Claim, now supporting difficulties and traps that actually work in vanilla Doom (whoops). Should be the final version unless some visplane errors are spotted.

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No clue if it's something i'd consider as a TNT style map, at least it's one of the most awkward things i've ever made. Skill settings are implemented.

Jaws: Music is sorta placeholder-ish, i'm yet indecisive, none of the still available midis really seems to fit at all -.-

& yes it has a spaceship at the end.....

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tourniquet said:

Jaws: Music is sorta placeholder-ish, i'm yet indecisive, none of the still available midis really seems to fit at all -.-


You may want to talk with one of our midi composers, I'm sure they would be willing to work with you to make a midi that fits.

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Played your map tourny. Some quirky design here, couldn't tell where I was going or where I'd end up, but I made it to the exit nevertheless. Really like the surprising amount of verticality here, as it always feels like the player is either heading up or jumping down (and yes, I know it's because you use lifts, you don't need to rub that in my face). Just a couple of hiccups:

- Yellow key battle is waaay too aggressive with only the SG and no armor. I know the player can pick up some other equipment before then, but I'd argue the most natural path through the map is to run into that encounter before picking up the RL, BK, or armor. A good compromise would be to take the armor in the RL path (thing 312) and place it somewhere in the YK room, though I might also argue for making it apparent that linedef 266 activates the "door" behind the player.

- The step sector 289 should be lower by 8 just to make it more noticeable that the player can step onto it from the box, as I had no idea if I could make the leap or not.

- There needs to be a "poison" sign/texture in front of linedef 1025 to denote what's down there (I originally dropped down with 7% health so I didn't last long)

- Put the W1 exit lines around the cockpit of the ship; let the player hop on their newly acquired space vessel!

Good work otherwise—maps that share a lot of space with nukage are always fun to traverse.

--------

Played valkiriforce's map too. Took about 40 minutes and was quite the journey—I have no clue even how to design a map to be this long in vanilla Doom, so props to you for this. While it was mostly fun, there's a couple of areas where the map really, really drags, specifically in the following congested sectors: 422, 521, & 800, 422. The problem with these areas is that they're blocked by so many enemies that the only way to get through them is to hide against a corner and play peek-a-shoot for a minute straight. Removing all of the enemies from 800 and most of the enemies in 521 & 422 will definitely provide some much needed breathing room.

- I'd also recommend changing things 1139 & 1140 to rocket boxes since shells do jack shit against the rev/baron/AV trap.

- The blue skull key is kindaaa hard to notice and might be better off located somewhere else (sector 322?)

- Lastly, the scavenger hunt to the exit is a somewhat confusing and pointless extension to the map. Honestly, crossing into the linedef tag 7 teleport would work better as an ending, and you could leave the scavenger hunt stuff as another secret for the BFG or something.

Interesting map, though plenty exhausting.

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Oh thanks for the suggestions dobu, shouldn't be much of a problem to fix those things.

Gonna check out yours and valkiri's maps once i caught some sleep.

Pharao's Claim: 9/9 secrets (thanks to friendly automap arrows)

Oh well i had a blast, the beginning gave me the impression this would become a quite tricky journey but at the end it wasn't all too difficult. Ammo was a bit tight at times and i wish i'd found the berserk secret earlier but i never ran completely dry, so i guess it's just the right amount that forces you to venture deeper into this very elaborate tech/goth/egypt complex. Dunno which parts of the map were also existent before you started to overhaul it. But in the caverns and the pre BFG secret room, your handwriting was the most obvious to me. Speaking of secrets, i loved hunting down all of them (thanks to the computer map), also a neat idea to add a way to skip the large catwalk area.
My favorite encounter was the pinkie/crusher trap but generally i enjoyed all of them.

Very nice map, i've nothing to complain tbh.
The only thing you might want to consider is adding a temporary lock-in for the ankh room fight since this one's kinda cheesable if you hide in the small alcove right next to it.


About halfway done with valkiris map, damn what a behemoth. Guess i'll gonna finish it tomorrow.

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tourniquet said:

But in the caverns and the pre BFG secret room, your handwriting was the most obvious to me.

eheh, I do love my cavernous areas. New places from scratch are all the secret rooms and the aforementioned blood cave. Also plenty of the fights are cheesable (as Steve D no doubt knows) but I'm not really pressed to do anything about it since I think it maintains the spirit of TNT.

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v2 of map11 along with dobu's suggestions, DM/COOP stuff.

Finally finished vf's map24, took me more than an hour in the end, though i spent quite a bit of time with looking for secrets. Found 7/10 in total. I can pretty much echo everything dobu has mentioned before. The map tends to drag quite a bit in certain locations mostly due to very hight monster density. The narrow hallway filled with HK's/Manc's next to the paned vile room is probably the most obvious example, especially since all of them will likely get resurrected. A few more rockets for the BK&YK AV/Noble trap or maybe replace some cells/shells would be much appreciated.

I didn't mind the scavenger hunt as much as Dobu, ofc it feels like an unnecessary extension still it was somehow interesting to traverse through all the locations again. Alltogether a very enjoyable journey and a really impressive effort i only wish you'd adjust the monster density to sorta speed up the pace a bit.

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Valkiriforce, Map24.

I provided some comments through back channels awhile ago, but i hadn't finished the map -- I couldn't find the red key -- and I was just about to crash, so the comments were hurried.

This map is great-looking, sprawling and epic in scope, but the combat, IMO, is enervating. As tourniquet has said, the map lasts a long time because of the high monster density, especially large numbers of Nobles, Revvies, Pinkys and Specters that take some killing. Further, the combats are not staged very well such that you are often flanked and thus in danger. Instead, there's a lot of shooting-gallery stuff with enemies ahead of you, and it can fall into a pattern of, "Here comes a Revvie. Now here comes another Revvie. Here comes a Hell Knight, and here comes another Hell Knight" -- one sitting duck after another waddling down a corridor. One example would be in the building you reach by crossing a bridge bordered by beautiful Y-pillars with hanging victims. You go up stairs and every time you turn a corner you blast 3 Chaingunners, or a couple Revvies, or Hell Knights, etc. It turned into a lot of enemies at the end, but I never took a single hit, so it was like make-work. And even the Plasma Gun trap at the top -- and why a trap when you already gave it away at the start? -- was flawed because just crossing one line set off the teleporting monsters before the walls could close in -- keep in mind, I was playing in GZDoom -- so it was easy to kill everything while taking minimal damage.

One thing that I think should simply be eliminated is perhaps all the Pinky swarms. There were 4, maybe 5 of them. One was at the blue key reveal and all I had to do was put my back against the wall and punch away. There was no danger but there was a ton of Pinkys so it was more time, time, time. Then there was a pitfall Pinky trap that went the same way, and IMO the worst of all was in the red key area where all the AV and Noble snipers were revealed overhead and a ton of Pinkys teleport behind you. Again, it's back to the wall, because if I move forward to fight them I can either get flanked and bitten when I'm at low health, or an Archie spots me and flames me out instantly. So I had no choice but to wait for them to come to me, a real PITA since they could move down the side pathways and not come back for awhile. That Pinky swarm really must be eliminated, IMO.

That whole situation was very unpleasant, and I died 5 times trying to close the wall under the Archies, but there was a lot of open area between me and that wall and I had no armor at the time and 92% health, so every LOS attack was going to take me out. I finally made it and resorted to corner abuse to win the day. I think this was an ill-constructed challenge because you have very high-HP snipers and unless you're tanked up on health and armor the battle becomes a bit luck-based, which again adds to the time.

Another example would be the 3 Revvie columns in Sector 194. They come down 1 at a time, so it's lower column, kill Revvie, teleport, rinse, repeat. Again, more time spent on essentially pointless combat. We aren't going to be taken out by these Revvies in single combat unless we slip on a banana peel, so why have them at all? If we must have a monster, make it an easy-to-kill hitscanner who also has the potential to get a shot off and wound you at least.

These comments might sound harsh, but in a map like this with tons of overhead snipers encouraging corner-camping and whatnot, you're already dealing with time-consuming area denial tactics, so anything added to that tends to increase the frustration/boredom factor. Thus, Revvies and Imps dribbling down stairways make one sigh.

I'll mention a couple more specific examples that bothered me. First, in Sector 120, near the freely-given Plasma Gun, when you return this way you find that two rooms have opened up, and these contain what for me were badly-needed Medikits. Each one also contain 9 deaf Imps. So they don't come out after you shoot, you have to go in there and root them all out, and they have about as much chance of hurting you as does a hummingbird, but killing all 18 of them takes time. Then there is a time you come through the red gates and 3 closets, all marked Sector 477 and each containing 2 deaf Revvies, have opened up. Not sure if i had a healthy supply of rockets, because if i did, the best course would be to run past all of them, turn, and fire a barrage at the oncoming Revs. Instead, I took them all out 1 closet at a time with the SSG.

So I guess the word that best describes much of the action, to me, is grindy.

On the plus side, you made evil use of Chaingunners, both as sadistically-placed snipers and in sudden, cruel reveals that blasted away a lot of my health. I had to savescum to avoid a few deaths by Chaingunner, so I'd say they were maybe the most well-used monster in the map. The Revvie-Archie lift trap in the windowed room took me out a couple times and made for a nice, close encounter with a very dangerous monster. The initial yellow-key fight, with Mancs and Chaingunners on the ground, and an Arachnotron and Sergeant sniping above, was a nasty set-up, and I died once when I ran in and foolishly challenged the room.

As mentioned before, the map is very attractive. You make excellent use of textures which are themselves highly detailed. You also excelled in the use of midtextures with torches for that nice, gothic feel. Your red Hell sections were also superbly done.

In the end I had the following stats;
Kills - 98% (593 of 603 monsters), Items - 36%, Secrets - 70%. End Health - 42, Armor - 66. Death Count - 10. End Ammo: Bullets - 303, Shells - 76, Rockets - 15, Cells - 416.

Overall, I'd agree with tourniquet that you should shed monsters. A population between 300 and 350, more efficiently used, would speed this up, I think. My advice is to reduce the Hell Nobles and Pinkys by fairly significant margins, and maybe replace some of the Nobles with more dangerous Mancs.

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Eris Falling said:

ooh :D
Is it a long map?


I think you've seen it before. I stopped working on it awhile back & just decided to finish it recently after letting a few others have a shot at map 32.

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I note that the thread title is no longer about E3 maps needed, and now instead about the mod coming soon. :)

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Gez said:

I note that the thread title is no longer about E3 maps needed, and now instead about the mod coming soon. :)


Yep, only 7 maps are still being worked on and at least 3 of them should be done before July.

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i don't have anything else to offer here, i just wanted to post awareness that i changed my username here from Doomhuntress to Viscra Maelstrom, so you can change the credits here to reflect that change.

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hey I'd offer up a few bug reports on Revilution, if you don't mind.

MAP02

(screenshot)

-this is the only map where the textures don't seem to work. I have the texture wad loaded with it. The map plays fine though.

MAP03

(misalignment)

MAP09

-Sector 270 (tag 32) does not have a teleport destination, so three monsters never come in.

MAP11

-Not sure if intended but I can hit the switch in sector 136 (linedef 951) from outside the bars.

MAP15

-There's no sector tagged 41 so four monsters never teleport in.

MAP29

-Secret sector 400 can't be reached, the door that opens it is tagged 26 but there isn't a linedef tagged 26. I assume that linedef 1589 is supposed to open it (it's tagged 24 which is opens the one on the green side)?
-(automap view) Is it possible to reach this area in the green section without noclip?

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I've made a small update to Atmosphere, the music for MAP31. Been meaning to tweak it a bit for a while, but only remembered to do it the other day. Since I've one more track to make for this project (which I'll be starting soon) there might be updates to other tracks if necessary.

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