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Jaws In Space

TNT Revilution: Final release now on ID Games!

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Jaws In Space said:

Story time part 3, all E2 text. Trying to tell a story when limited to only 315 characters is a major pain in the ass :P


Great job on the story, Jaws. And kudos to Gez on the proofreading.

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SteveD said:

Great job on the story, Jaws. And kudos to Gez on the proofreading.


Thanks Steve, and yes thank you very much for the proofreading Gez.

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MAP15. This pain elemental needs to go. That one that disappears into the far distance if you so much as touch it.

..or I could have actually taken the radsuits before this area that I just remembered exist. uh, nvm.


-- Just so this post isn't completely worthless

Gez said:

The demons have used UAC's weaponry to advance their own technology.[/spoiler]


I'd probably go with "the UAC's weaponry."

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Do we need to put additional monsters for coop too? Also I actually have few things I need to fix but before picking this map again I have to finish a map for another project.

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gaspe said:

Do we need to put additional monsters for coop too? Also I actually have few things I need to fix but before picking this map again I have to finish a map for another project.


I'll leave it up to the map authors to decide on that, for my own maps I did add additional items & things for coop.


Also no story for map 30 until I figure out what Obsidian is doing for that map.

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Finally finished with the layout & detailing on map 32. Now all I need to do is thing placement, if all goes well I may even have this map done by September.




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So I've got map 32 into a nearly completed state right now. All that I need to do for this map is add difficulty settings for HMP & HNTR, which will play very differently from UV, and then it will finally be done. But for now I'd like to get some feedback on what I have so far. Also I need advice from someone who can tell me why one of the exterior snow textures I'm using looks all messed up in vanilla.

Map32: Europa

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The "additional midis from JDolye" link is 404'ed. Would you happen to have an alt link?

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Maximum_Doom the superweapons facility

I was asked to do a short map... well max (100/100/100) play time was 25 minutes ._. but the time went fast and it didn't feel long or grindy since:

- Everything is unique
- Filled with lots of infighting
- Shortcuts to everywhere
- Barrels in most areas, tailored to soften fights
- Good access to weapons in multiple places
- Mostly soft monsters
- Automap makes it clear where to go
- Some crushers

Notes

- Tested in Chocolate Doom Render Limits, PrBoom+
- All difficulty levels

Media




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Cool map Pinchy, even if it's way bigger than what I was looking for :P For the most part I enjoyed myself, but I did have one really big problem. The Rocket Launchers could be a bit more evenly distributed throughout the map, I was 16 minuets in & had cleared out the entire eastern half of the map before finally getting to the RL just north of the 4 mancubus pillars. It was pretty obvious that the player was supposed to have the RL for the eastern half of the map due to the abundance of RL ammo, but since I went there without one I was constantly running out of ammo & it probably added several minutes to my overall game time. Other than that one big issue I didn't have any problems. I quite liked the theme of the map, a very well done interpretation of the UAC tech being used by hell. The BFG secret was loads of fun, that was also the only secret that I found.


And with that we now only have 3 more maps to go before all maps are completed :D With a beta just around the corner I'm just going to give everyone a list of things left to be accomplished before we are ready for the beta release.

Things that need to be finished before Beta Release

  • Map 4 - Dobu Gabu Maru
  • Map 15 - SteveD (Secret Exit addition plus game play changes, Nearly Complete)
  • Map 26 - Ribbiks
  • Map 30 - Obsidian (including dehacked work)
  • Map 32 - Jaws In Space (Implement lower difficulty settings)
  • Deathmatch placement on all maps - Currently being handled by Doomkid (Should be ready within the next few weeks)
  • Coop testing on the current maps - Volunteers Needed
  • CWILV graphics for the currently unfinished maps & an M_DOOM graphic is needed (Currently being worked on)
  • Other minor Dehacked work like adding the remaining level names & Map 30 story text
  • Make 3 Demos

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v0.96

I've moved two of the rocket launchers so you can get them earlier, added a fourth one in the top right corner and some extra cells that should allow people to cut through the map faster.

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Jaws In Space said:

So I've got map 32 into a nearly completed state right now.


Has there been a Texture Pack revision that didn't make it to the OP? I tried to play it but couldn't because of missing textures. When I opened it in DB2, every missing texture I saw had "Snow" in the name. I'd really like to play it, since the visual walkthrough makes it look like another toughass Jaws map.

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Pinchy said:

I was asked to do a short map... well max (100/100/100) play time was 25 minutes ._. but the time went fast and it didn't feel long or grindy since:


Great map, Pinchy. I loaded it just to take a looksee, since I was dead tired and ready for bed, and once I saw 500+ monsters, I thought, "Uh-oh," but once I started playing, I had so much fun I couldn't stop.

Fantastic job on the techbase texture usage. I usually prefer darker maps, but you made this shiny, well-lit techbase really interesting. Loved all the epic architecture and the interconnected pathing.

Gameplay was fairly easy, but given that your map follows Ribbiks, a breather might be in order. There were still some tougher traps, like the Archie/Chaingunner massacre at the green pillar. That got 1 of the 5 or 6 pelts I shed in the course of this adventure. ;) There was nothing unfair, though, and the setups were engaging even when they were somewhat mild. I can imagine some players disliking that the metal floors surrounding the nukage at the Archie/Revvie Massacre are damaging, but looking at the map, I can see what you did with the damage dropping the farther you get from the nukage. Interesting idea.

The only secret I found was the BFG, and I enjoyed the Zombie Slaughter immediately thereafter. It created an ammo reserve I dipped into several times. I could have used the RL earlier, but I still had enough ammo to corner-abuse the Revvie guards at the first RL I found. I most often ran out of shells and had to adjust to the large amount of rockets in this map, as that's an unusual approach and I'm habituated to hoarding my rocket ammo. This map also encouraged heavy use of the Chaingun, which is again unusual, but I like the CG so I don't mind being put outside my SSG comfort zone.

Overall, I found little to critique in this map, except that it does encourage a good bit of corner-camping against all the mid-tiers, but IMO it wasn't excessive or in any way bothersome. It's really grasping at straws to even mention it. ;)

Bottom line, fantastic map!

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umm... so Im not sure if my comment was over shadowed by Pinchy's dope map post/pics.

But the additional midi links are down. Can someone provide an alt link for those please?

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Jimp Argon said:

umm... so Im not sure if my comment was over shadowed by Pinchy's dope map post/pics.

But the additional midi links are down. Can someone provide an alt link for those please?


I actually don't have the JDoyle midi's anymore. Since all the map slots have music assigned I got rid of the extras & was just going to use the provided links if I needed to. So the only midi's of his that I have are the 3 that are in the wad.

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Jaws In Space said:

I actually don't have the JDoyle midi's anymore. Since all the map slots have music assigned I got rid of the extras & was just going to use the provided links if I needed to. So the only midi's of his that I have are the 3 that are in the wad.


The rest of the midis I posted were unfinished ideas, so none of them would be usable at this point. Also, as was pointed out: I had a brainfart when I named one of my songs "Transduction". As that's the name of Map12, it makes no sense to share the name. It should go back to it's original (unoriginal) name "REQ-JD10" to avoid confusion. Sorry!

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I made some updates to The Crash Site. I made few visual changes here and there. Most notably I added some monsters and items for Coop, though I'm not sure of how it will play on MP, I guess it will need some tweaks. SP is unchanged.

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I'm glad to see this project has been making some good progress lately; hopefully it won't be long before we have a completed megawad up and ready for testing.

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On March 5, 2015 I officially joined the TNT Revilution Team with the intention of making map 32. Now here I am a year and half later & I have finally accomplished that task.
Europa

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SteveD said:

Great map, Pinchy. I loaded it just to take a looksee, since I was dead tired and ready for bed, and once I saw 500+ monsters, I thought, "Uh-oh," but once I started playing, I had so much fun I couldn't stop.

Fantastic job on the techbase texture usage. I usually prefer darker maps, but you made this shiny, well-lit techbase really interesting. Loved all the epic architecture and the interconnected pathing.

Gameplay was fairly easy, but given that your map follows Ribbiks, a breather might be in order. There were still some tougher traps, like the Archie/Chaingunner massacre at the green pillar. That got 1 of the 5 or 6 pelts I shed in the course of this adventure. ;) There was nothing unfair, though, and the setups were engaging even when they were somewhat mild. I can imagine some players disliking that the metal floors surrounding the nukage at the Archie/Revvie Massacre are damaging, but looking at the map, I can see what you did with the damage dropping the farther you get from the nukage. Interesting idea.

The only secret I found was the BFG, and I enjoyed the Zombie Slaughter immediately thereafter. It created an ammo reserve I dipped into several times. I could have used the RL earlier, but I still had enough ammo to corner-abuse the Revvie guards at the first RL I found. I most often ran out of shells and had to adjust to the large amount of rockets in this map, as that's an unusual approach and I'm habituated to hoarding my rocket ammo. This map also encouraged heavy use of the Chaingun, which is again unusual, but I like the CG so I don't mind being put outside my SSG comfort zone.

Overall, I found little to critique in this map, except that it does encourage a good bit of corner-camping against all the mid-tiers, but IMO it wasn't excessive or in any way bothersome. It's really grasping at straws to even mention it. ;)

Bottom line, fantastic map!


Wow thanks for the nice and detailed review ';,,;'

Here's a making of gallery, recommended for when you have beaten the map at least once.

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Paul977 said:

Good stuff. A question: Those grey/white crackle are a custom texture or can be found in some texture packs ?


The origin to most of the textures in Revilution is unknown to me. I'm aware that 40oz, Cage, Fuzzballfox, & Kyka made some of them, but that's about all I know. I've asked several people from TNT2 & Revilution if they know the origin of the textures, but it looks like only Whoo & Kyka would be able to provide a complete list, and they haven't been around Doomworld for quite some time.

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Well, Kyka included a complete list of authors at the bottom of the OP of this project's first thread (post), so fortunately no contacting needed.

Anyway, haven't yet got around to the updates to midis 31 and 32 that I said I'd do, working on something else at the moment so I keep forgetting but it should be a simple fix so I'll try and get it done very soon.

Also what's the deal with MAP11's music? Nothing is listed on the OP, but there's a custom track there, is that a new piece (a JDoyle track I didn't hear?) or is it from some other source?

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Eris Falling said:

Also what's the deal with MAP11's music? Nothing is listed on the OP, but there's a custom track there, is that a new piece (a JDoyle track I didn't hear?) or is it from some other source?


Tourniquet didn't mention the source, but it's going to be replaced with something else.

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Jaws In Space said:

On March 5, 2015 I officially joined the TNT Revilution Team with the intention of making map 32. Now here I am a year and half later & I have finally accomplished that task.


Finally finished your map, Jaws! It took 2 gaming sessions.

This is a big, beautiful, non-linear map. The snow textures were very cool, though you ran into alignment issues with those, as well as the curved Tekgren and also that Pipewall with the lights in it, where the lights were frequently cut off at one edge on curved walls. I guess you didn't use auto-align there? Tekgren will always give problems, though.

Hats off to Eris for his outstanding BGM. The perfect calm, pretty track for a very long map.

And this was loooooonnnnnnngggggggg. 667 monsters and tons of backtracking because of ammo/health starvation. It really is kind of a classic attrition/resource-management map which IMO has way too many ledge snipers. This led to me camping a high percentage of the encounters, because if I tried to Rambo them – and I did – I'd get torn to pieces by hitscanners.

One constant source of aggravation was the 118 Spectres. Thanks for giving a Zerk at the start, but the way the Spectres kept stumbling into fights forced me to constantly switch weapons because there wasn't enough ammo to SSG them. As a result, I kept fighting from my back foot, you might say, never really getting set as I'm trying to deal with Hell Knights, or the 172 Sergeants, but here comes a Spectre. Punch it to death, switch to SSG, but here comes another Spectre, and again and again and again. It prevented me from handling the fights expeditiously, which means it slowed down gameplay in an already massive map. The Spectres presented very little threat, so they served mainly as meat walls, protecting the bigger monsters. Getting them into infight situations again slowed things down, as they are not very effective infighters, so you end up killing most of them yourself while the other monsters ignore their futile attacks.

Given how often these situations cropped up, I assume they were intentional, but how well will players react to these tactics? I did not react well. Was this a playstyle found in the original Evilution? I'll confess, I played Evilution once in '96 and have since forgotten practically everything about it, so I can’t tell you what it's like other than 2 maps I recently looked at which did feature serious ammo starvation, thus were probably not designed for pistol starts.

Aside from Spectres, the other monster I felt most keenly was the Arachnotron. With 43 of these hulking behemoths dominating the landscape, I was always fearful of their powerful attacks. These monsters were very well used. Chaingunners were also well used, sometimes too well. I strongly suggest deleting the Chaingunner in Sector 233 as he makes it extremely difficult to advance into Sector 203 past the Sector 207/208/209 fountain, mainly because he's essentially invisible past the Linedef 1825 wall. I also think you should change the floor and ceiling heights of the associated Sector 137 to -192/-128 to clear the texture cutoffs on each side of this window. You may have kept the ceiling at -136 to help hide that vicious Chaingunner, but IMO it looks bad and should be cleaned up.

The Spectres in the damaging water in Sectors 38 and 46 should be removed because with ammo starvation, it discourages people from jumping in there to punch out Spectres for 100% kills.

I think this map would be much more fun if the Spectres were reduced to 40 or less, and if more cell ammo was available at the end to deal with the Cyb.

An interesting aspect of the map was that with its flowy layout and unusual use of verticality, it made it possible for players to be surprised by attacks from the rear by Cacos that had flown in from another part of the map. This happened to me several times and you should have heard me cursing like Suitepee, lol, but I think it's a cool design element.

Okay, the stats; Kills – 95%, Items – 98%, Secrets – 66%. Death Count – 16

Yes, you got 16 pelts even though this map was mostly not very hard. 6 pelts were surrendered to the Cyb at the end because I kept fighting him in that corridor without enough cell ammo, which revealed how much I suck! :D When I saw the switch to raise the exit door I chose to run away because even if I killed him, there were several more Arachnotrons and I was almost out of ammo.

I enjoyed the blue key trap, and was very glad I found the secret radsuit and invuln. I also liked the big Caco trap, though that fight soon turned grindy when it came down to Spectres and Hell Knights.

I would say that overall, with ammo starvation, too many Spectres and too many ledge snipers, plus many situations where I was being hit by Chaingunners from a football field away, the gameplay was too slow and irritating to really be fun. Because of often distant snipers, more rockets would be nice, along with more bullets and shells. I hope some other players give this a whirl since their views may differ from mine. After all, in both BTSX E2 and Estranged, I complained a lot about too many ledge snipers, especially heavy snipers that are time and ammo-consuming to kill, so I have a special sensitivity against that type of gameplay scenario. Others like it much better than I do, so I hope they speak up.

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Pinchy said:

Wow thanks for the nice and detailed review ';,,;'

Here's a making of gallery, recommended for when you have beaten the map at least once.


Nice set of pics, Pinchy. I'm guessing you work in GZDoomBuilder, which I'll be switching to fairly soon. DB2's Visual Mode isn't quite powerful enough to give such sharp isometric views. BTW, I was freaked for awhile in GZDB because I kept wondering, "How do you set the Deaf flag?" until I figured out they changed it to Ambush Player. God knows why. ;D

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SteveD said:

Nice set of pics, Pinchy. I'm guessing you work in GZDoomBuilder, which I'll be switching to fairly soon. DB2's Visual Mode isn't quite powerful enough to give such sharp isometric views. BTW, I was freaked for awhile in GZDB because I kept wondering, "How do you set the Deaf flag?" until I figured out they changed it to Ambush Player. God knows why. ;D


GZ Doom builder can increase the view range up to 9000 units where it was previously only 3000 (I still would like 20000 for full map shots)

The plugins that come with it and are still being added even now like the new difficulty levels one on the way save so much time.

I think they might have changed the Deaf tag because the code actually has AMBUSH in it somewhere, hadn't got around to checking that part or had it commented on then realised deaf isn't really accurate as it's a state of hearing and not intent.

There are so many small time savers and fixes such as reducing linedef offsets to always be below the textures width and height to reduce data sizes and have no silly high numbers.

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SteveD said:

BTW, I was freaked for awhile in GZDB because I kept wondering, "How do you set the Deaf flag?" until I figured out they changed it to Ambush Player. God knows why. ;D

God says: "because that's the actual name of the flag in the engine, and the monsters still heard you anyway." See alertness.

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