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UNERXAi

UNX01 [noob map]

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FDA. Spammy monster placement was cheap and boring, there was also little health and the map was practically all about camping. Inescapable pits are bad, but inescapable pits with secret sectors and visible items in them are horrible. Also secret sectors that weren't damaging despite consisting of the same damaging liquid as their surroundings, and on top of that, the damaging liquid in question was water for whatever reason, it didn't even match the nukage-tinted walls around it. The architecture was somewhat blocky and bland at places, but at least visually / texturing-wise not bad.

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What scifista said. Placing a radsuit of all things in an inescapable damaging floor pit is the height of ridiculousness. Don't ever do that. :p

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scifista42 said:

FDA. Spammy monster placement was cheap and boring, there was also little health and the map was practically all about camping. Inescapable pits are bad, but inescapable pits with secret sectors and visible items in them are horrible. Also secret sectors that weren't damaging despite consisting of the same damaging liquid as their surroundings, and on top of that, the damaging liquid in question was water for whatever reason, it didn't even match the nukage-tinted walls around it. The architecture was somewhat blocky and bland at places, but at least visually / texturing-wise not bad.

Wow that was a fast reply lol.

Yeah, I expected people to notice the switch so they could lower the lift before attempting to get the items in the pit. The water surrounded by the nukage tinted walls I thought looked cool heh. I didn't know how to make the sectors secret and damaging at the same time on Doom Builder so I did that. Thanks for the feedback btw.

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Also the BK trigger is needlessly opaque. I actually paused mid-playthrough to check GZDB to make sure the map wasn't broken due to being tested only in ZDoom or something. Those little strips basically always indicate that the door needs a key -- very odd for it to actually be the triggering mechanism.

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scifista42 said:

FDA. Spammy monster placement was cheap and boring, there was also little health and the map was practically all about camping. Inescapable pits are bad, but inescapable pits with secret sectors and visible items in them are horrible. Also secret sectors that weren't damaging despite consisting of the same damaging liquid as their surroundings, and on top of that, the damaging liquid in question was water for whatever reason, it didn't even match the nukage-tinted walls around it. The architecture was somewhat blocky and bland at places, but at least visually / texturing-wise not bad.

I watched your demo. The player is supposed to lower the lift with the switch and then go fast and get the items before it raises again, but I understand it could frustrate some people lol.

rdwpa said:

Also the BK trigger is needlessly opaque. I actually paused mid-playthrough to check GZDB to make sure the map wasn't broken due to being tested only in ZDoom or something. Those little strips basically always indicate that the door needs a key -- very odd for it to actually be the triggering mechanism.

Sorry what do you mean by BK trigger? I tested it with vanilla and zdoom. Regarding the blue strip, that was just me trying to do something original again just like with the water and the nukage walls. :)

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Well, both of your "original" ideas went straight against player's intuitions/expectations in a way that didn't lead to improvement of the player's experience (particularly the inescapable pit was an unpredictable frustrating betray), and you should better avoid that.

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UNERXAi said:

I watched your demo. The player is supposed to lower the lift with the switch and then go fast and get the items before it raises again, but I understand it could frustrate some people lol.

Sorry what do you mean by BK trigger? I tested it with vanilla and zdoom. Regarding the blue strip, that was just me trying to do something original again just like with the water and the nukage walls. :)


Blue key (door) trigger.

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Link updated. Made some changes based on comments. Thanks everyone.

scifista42 said:

Well, both of your "original" ideas went straight against player's intuitions/expectations in a way that didn't lead to improvement of the player's experience (particularly the inescapable pit was an unpredictable frustrating betray), and you should better avoid that.


Sorry I meant no harm.

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I had an idea for your inescapable pit, though it'll need Boom support.

What about a switch that teleports the player inside a trap, then he must blast the way out to the start of the map? (through a hidden door only openable from inside the trap)

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^ The idea would not require Boom support if the teleporting switch was substituted by a standard walkover teleporter.

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I put "poison" signs so people know it's an inescapable pit. Also put the radiation suit on the other side and added a way to escape the pits in the "catwalk" section.

Gustavo6046 said:

I had an idea for your inescapable pit, though it'll need Boom support.

What about a switch that teleports the player inside a trap, then he must blast the way out to the start of the map? (through a hidden door only openable from inside the trap)

I want it to be vanilla compatible.

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UNERXAi said:

I put "poison" signs so people know it's an inescapable pit.

This doesn't work. There have been lots of maps with poison signs and death signs etc. that actually rewarded the player for exploring said pits by finding secrets there. I am of the opinion that inescapable pits as a design decision should just be avoided. I don't see a problem with simply adding some way out of the pit.

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Make it a teleporter then! Maybe it won't be inescapable then.

But escaping it requires passing through a trap if the player isn't quick enough to go to the lift before it raises, I think this adds well to the gameplay. ;)

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UNERXAi said:

Yeah, I expected people to notice the switch so they could lower the lift before attempting to get the items in the pit.

That's actually kinda clever, but you should only do this kind of things if it's only possible to get in the sector through the lift.

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Gustavo6046 said:

Make it a teleporter then! Maybe it won't be inescapable then.

But escaping it requires passing through a trap if the player isn't quick enough to go to the lift before it raises, I think this adds well to the gameplay. ;)

That's a cool idea. I might do something like that.

In the meantime I recorded this demo on UV (vanilla) so people can see what my idea was for this map.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_eK2LXM3IqybzUwa2xGVDNLcUk/view?usp=sharing

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That's also a pretty nice map in visuals ;) Keep up the good work!

I am not lowering the points made by scifista. They are very good. There are things you have to improve, but your mapping skill seems to be naturally good!

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yakfak said:

the pit secret ruled, keep doing things like that >:)


You know what rules?!?

Spoiler

the word that starts with C---

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Hello there!

I did a playthrough of your map and posted it here:



I put most of my thoughts in the demo, but I didn't mention a couple; for a first map, it's pretty good! Keep tweaking around an experimenting and you'll be making rock solid maps in no time.

Detail and stuff can come later once layout and structure are mastered but I'm seeing some ideas in here that'll probably serve you well (like the ceiling)bits in the first chamber and the office cubicles are a neat, if unexpected touch.

One thing to be careful of, as others have mentioned, is enemy placement. Try playing some other PWADs that're highly ranked on Idgames and you'll get a sense of what others do to make interesting and varied combat encounters.

All in all, a good first effort and I look forward to seeing more. :)

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I uploaded a video of the demo to my new doom youtube channel (lol.) Excuse my sloppy playing, I played through DOS Doom without novert. The catwalk was a bitch. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWML0iEi-QM

Gustavo6046 said:

That's also a pretty nice map in visuals ;) Keep up the good work!

I am not lowering the points made by scifista. They are very good. There are things you have to improve, but your mapping skill seems to be naturally good!

Thanks mate.

yakfak said:

the pit secret ruled, keep doing things like that >:)

Heh I'm glad at least one person liked it.

T_Silverwolf said:

Hello there!

I did a playthrough of your map and posted it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTqSHQ5g7Ko

I put most of my thoughts in the demo, but I didn't mention a couple; for a first map, it's pretty good! Keep tweaking around an experimenting and you'll be making rock solid maps in no time.

Detail and stuff can come later once layout and structure are mastered but I'm seeing some ideas in here that'll probably serve you well (like the ceiling)bits in the first chamber and the office cubicles are a neat, if unexpected touch.

One thing to be careful of, as others have mentioned, is enemy placement. Try playing some other PWADs that're highly ranked on Idgames and you'll get a sense of what others do to make interesting and varied combat encounters.

All in all, a good first effort and I look forward to seeing more. :)

Thank you. I'll keep your suggestions in mind.

One thing though, it's kinda hard to read the messages in your video because the text is quite small. Still, thanks for the video. :)

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Personally, I'm a fan of inescapable pits and I think the secret would have been good originally if it weren't for the radsuit. With the radsuit it just seemed like a troll though. It's not even "Hey you die immediately!" as in most inescapable pits, which is fine; it's "Hey, you get stuck and have to wait for the radsuit to wear off and then you die, zzzzzzzz."

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rdwpa said:

Personally, I'm a fan of inescapable pits and I think the secret would have been good originally if it weren't for the radsuit. With the radsuit it just seemed like a troll though. It's not even "Hey you die immediately!" as in most inescapable pits, which is fine; it's "Hey, you get stuck and have to wait for the radsuit to wear off and then you die, zzzzzzzz."

The radsuit is now in the other pit. :)

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Sorry for bumping, just wanted to comment on all the changes I made to the map based on the complaints and suggestions:

-Improved enemy placement and more variety (less hitscanners)
-Better availability of weapons and armor at the start
-Radsuit no longer in inescapable pit
-No sectors tagged as secret on damaging water (still left a hidden item but it doesn't count as secret anymore)
-Blue key door now operates normally
-Inescapable pit has poison signs to indicate it's inescapable
-Overall the map is easier and more fair now

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_eK2LXM3IqyeWFielktaVJiMFU/view?usp=sharing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xuyp2JdnXU

That's all. Thanks everyone.

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Don't be discouraged. I liked it. You used some good effects.
Get used to nasty comments presented in an unfashionable manner. It's the norm.

Add a text file

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Recorded in prBoom+, there's no particular reason to watch it unless you want to see how your fights might be tackled with preknowledge.

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rdwpa said:

Recorded in prBoom+, there's no particular reason to watch it unless you want to see how your fights might be tackled with preknowledge.

I thought it was an ok run. Killing the imps with a pistol after seeing a berserk near me or shotgunning demons when I have berserk is not something I'd normally do. But whatever if you don't like it it's ok.

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