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rdwpa

Post Your Controversial Opinions About Doom

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Of course, the way these threads usually turn out, it's probably going to be a compilation of pseudoedgy opinions that most people actually believe, but whatever.

Anyway: I'm getting extremely tired of the term "slaughter" in any form. The fact that it even exists bunches up my panties because it normalizes "non-slaughter gameplay" and positions slaughter in some kind of niche, when -- to me at least -- a lot of what people consider slaughter gameplay is NORMAL Doom, and you have to go way up to Sunder or CS2 scale before I consider a map a slaughtermap. How about we call slaughtermaps just maps, and invent the term "WEENIEMAP" for the combat-centric maps that don't fit the slaughter or claustrophobia or whatever else categories. (Yes, I also think it's fine -- nay, CORRECT -- to retroactively relabel old maps once considered to be slaughtermaps according to the evolved standards and expectations of the present day. Fluidity of language and all.)

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I agree with your points about the misuse (or hell, even the use itself) of the word "slaughter", it's definitely irritating to me when people just slap that label on any old map just because it has a larger-than-normal volume of monsters.

Controversial opinion: I don't like Doom 1 much. Aside from a few maps in E4 it just bores me.

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My controversial opinions:

I like the pistol as-is. Though I will say that in Doom 2 when they added a SSG they could have also added a magnum/quadshot like scifista mentioned somehwere or something.

I like lost souls and PE's as-is as well.

"Into the Beast's Belly" was a great track off TNT: Evilution. Could have been longer, though.

I like the IoS and MAP30 of TNT's beginning puzzle was creative and fun to figure out.

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I don't know if this is really controversial, but anyway: I like doors, corridors, small mazes and some cramped areas. I think they can work IF well designed (and without excesses). Just a guess.

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Sure I will spark the flame a bit just like last time:

1. Slaughter Maps are more of a stress test than a level and an attempt at re-creating fun at an aged game where all stock resources feel incredibly exhausted. Granted mass killing is fun and we all have our preferences, but a map like Romero's latest is superior than most if not all slaughter maps.

2. Brutal Doom brings some elements to Doom that improves the game.

3. I believe not enough people are mapping and using modern sourceports. How people prefer to frequently play Doom without mouse-look I will never understand.

4. The Spider Mastermind is cooler than the Cyberdemon.

Have at me.

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Thy Flesh Consumed sucks. Ragtag bunch of ugly levels thrown together with no coherent progression, and it doesn't fit the rest of the story properly. They should have just released Registered Doom to retail and not bothered.

They should have kept on Tom Hall and never hired Sandy Petersen. E2M2 is proof of this.

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1. BDv20b's megawad has the best looking outdoor/city maps in Doom. The visual quality and realism are almost on par with something like Half-Life, if you ignore the sprites.

2. Playing without free look is annoying as hell. Few things are as frustrating in Doom as getting shot from above or below without being able to see the enemy. Especially considering that many of the recent megawads include a lot of verticality in the level design. There's no good reason for it other than "keeping it oldschool." I played Doom and Duke 3D with a keyboard in the 90's and it's not something I'm willing to put up with today.

3. Infinitely tall actors are infinitely irritating. I enjoy the increased performance in GLBoom+ but will not use it unless the map is uplayable in GZDoom/Zandronum. Especially if said map is spamming Cacodemons and Pain Elementals.

4. The Icon of Sin was alright in Doom 2 and disappointingly reused in Plutonia/TNT. Then every megawad maker thought it was great idea to slap it in their map 30. Also, if free aiming breaks your IoS fight then it's a poorly designed fight in the first place. Be more creative than "you have to be at point X to shoot 3 rockets to win."

5. Slaughter maps are only fun if ammo management is an actual factor. The player should be forced to switch weapons depending on the situation and not hold fire on the BFG for the entire level because it's flooded with cells. I BFG'd a Lost Soul on Scythe 2's map 28.

6. Stop the Revenant spam.

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I wish the final boss was another boss monster like the Cyberdemon or Mastermind instead of the Icon of Sin. A really bullet spongey one, with a powerful attack(s).

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I don't like the secret level music of TNT that oh-so-many love. It's melodramatic.

It's wrong to put fast-paced music (like Castlevania's?) in Hexen wads. In fact it's often better to just use the stock Hexen music in pwads.

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Alien Vendetta is a pretty average mapset.

(I never could warm up to it. If there's some greatness in there, it's going completely past me.)

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Linguica said:

id didn't really know what they were doing with Doom and mostly got really lucky.


That's also the case with other games, such as Duke3D. That's why 3DR didn't know how to make a proper Duke sequel (and why id has spent 8 years making DOOM4).

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Hell Revealed isn't really a slaughter mapset. It's just a set of maps that have tough-as-nails gameplay, just like Plutonia. To me, Plutonia and HR are like brothers, considering both have been created by two people respectively.

I always liked Tom Hall's level design style. In fact, I think Refueling Base (Doom 2 Map 10) is pretty good along with all his other maps Sandy Petersen worked his "magic" on, although John Romero did a really good job with Command Control (Doom E1M4).

Rise of the Triad is a much better FPS game to me, even though Doom is great. Yeah, I'm a RotT and Apogee fanboy.

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Rise of the Triad has some cute ideas, great music, and levels that are basically "Help! Tom Hall is drunk, he's locked himself in his office and he has a gun!"

Return of the Triad is what ROTT should've been.

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durian said:

The original IoS is fun, and a good final boss.

Daaaaaamn, this thread is heating up!

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fraggle said:

Thy Flesh Consumed sucks. Ragtag bunch of ugly levels thrown together with no coherent progression, and it doesn't fit the rest of the story properly. They should have just released Registered Doom to retail and not bothered.

They should have kept on Tom Hall and never hired Sandy Petersen. E2M2 is proof of this.


^ This

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fraggle said:

Thy Flesh Consumed sucks.


M2-6-7 are good maps. But yes, the rest is awful.

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the premise of this thread is sort of what people already use the confessional thread for, it would seem. But ohwell, time-2-b-edgy:

++ IoS and Chasm are the D2 maps I remember most fondly. though the fact that I was never good enough to play without cheats back then probably had something to do with that :p
++ I enjoy switch hunts, inescapable pits, mandatory secrets, etc. if they mesh with the map atmosphere
++ ToD is my favorite active mapper atm, I admire his unwavering conviction to hardcore/puzzly maps

-- masochistic and/or large-scale maps are pretty much the only thing that catches my interest nowadays. I'm guessing NGM2 will be coming out soon, at least..
-- modifications to stock mechanics (weapons, monsters) are a huge turn off 99% of the time. s2 additions are a notable exception.
-- superfluous palette modifications are bothersome (brb, channeling the disgruntled-grandpa energy that memfis left behind)

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Doom1 is boring and without the addition of doom2 stuff the game wouldn't gather nowhere near as much custom content as it managed to.

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Zombies and pistol should be stronger. Demons should be faster. Hell knights shouldn't exist. Enemies should have better variety, like in quake. The weapons should also have a wider variety, and should have been more unique. The brick textures should be replaced with more modern textures. E3, shouldn't have non secret health, ammo, and weapon pickups. It's hell for fuck sake.

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E2 and E3 is good in memories but really is (mostly) boring
Doom 2 is filled with filler-crap maps in the middle
Doom 3 is actually a good remake. heck, there is even airlocks/lifts at the end of the maps, just as was planned for the original
I found, that when I replay D1 I usually stop right after E3M8 and never play through E4
Master Levels is mostly boring. The real Master Levels is already in the games

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