Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[Chip]

Episode 3 of DOOM is my least favorite. I don't mean it isn't bad in any way, it's just that I remember these maps the least. If you showed me a picture of any map other than E3M1 or E3M8 I would think I've never played it before. 

[Biz!]

I think the 3DO version runs very well, in fact, it is my favorite port!

[lokbustam257]

Episode 3 is my second favorite episode in Doom

[xdarkmasterx]

On 5/20/2021 at 8:42 PM, Snarboo said:

Having played through Heretic again (the original 3 episodes, plus some user maps), its bestiary feels better designed than Doom's. This is both because its bestiary has more interesting behavior or unique abilities, and because most of them are about as tough as Doom 2's Revenant, making them easier to mow down. A lot of the basic monsters have variants, too, keeping things fresh. The Ghost mechanic is also legit better than Doom's lone Spectres and Blursphere, as it renders the stronger weapons moot and allows for some absolutely dickish setups that Doom can't touch (try putting Ghost Knights behind a horde of Ghost Golems).

 

You add in Heretic's arsenal, which is mostly* better balanced than Doom's, and Heretic's inventory system, and you've got gameplay that feels a lot more dynamic when at its best. Sure, Doom 2 has more monsters and a bestiary that's very good about making you move, but anything past a Revenant can be a chore to fight given Doom's propensity for meat wall enemies. The supershotgun doesn't always compensate for this, either.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

*That said, where Heretic suffers is how random its weapon damage values are. The Crossbow can do between 14 and 112 points of damage. WHY?! This can make certain situations more grindy than Doom ironically, but even Weredragons and Ophidians go down without much hassle.

 

 

I do enjoy Heretic, but I would have liked it a good deal more if the crossbow did some more damage. Taking 2 shots with a shotgun just to kill weak enemies like the golem is just depressing.

 

That, and the ridiculous RNG. If it were up to me I would have had it removed entirely, from every Doom engine game. I don't think it adds anything to the game except making your weapons feel puny when they take too long to kill something.

[ReaperAA]

9 minutes ago, xdarkmasterx said:

 

I do enjoy Heretic, but I would have liked it a good deal more if the crossbow did some more damage. Taking 2 shots with a shotgun just to kill weak enemies like the golem is just depressing.

 

Should I recommend Wayfarer's Tome. It makes balance changes to make the game less grindy. Crossbow being more powerful (and hence 1-shotting golems) is one of the changes.

[Fairen]

I've recently started Sunlust, and it's really driven home to me how so many "hard!" WADs have no idea how to design challenging encounters that don't rely largely or entirely on closet/pop-in monsters.

 

It's even more amusing given that, rather than making fights less predictable, it becomes incredibly predictable when a level is going to pull a cheap nasty trick on you. The peak of this was Sunlust's MAP05: Gear Up, where by then you're used to the game dropping ambushes on you for even the most insignificant pick-ups—except in Gear Up, you have to trigger a bunch of ambushes over armour bonuses in order to complete the level, and if you aren't aware of this gimmick (because nothing in the level gives you any direct clue to this), you'll eventually waste a bunch of time wandering around because you don't want to bother with another cheap spawn-in just for a few points of armour.

[Nine Inch Heels]

I think some people here confuse "controversial" with "complete and utter nonsense"...

 

EDIT: Here's my controversial opinion:

 

I think this thread should either be buried deep in the bowels of post hell, never to see the light of day again, or it should be moved to "everything else"..

[Samz707]

Doom 2016 theme is completely awful and a war crime against ears.

 

Doom 3's theme is actually really good.

[vdm1337]

"Doom Slayer" sounds a bit too edgy. Ironic, for a game like Doom to have something "too edgy" but I just think Doomguy gets the point across just as well, and changing it to Slayer was unnecessary. Not sure if this is controversial or not, but that's all I've got.

[I Drink Lava]

They still call him Doomguy in the Doom Eternal DLC.

[omx32x]

vanilla coop sucks

[Fairen]

9 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I think some people here confuse "controversial" with "complete and utter nonsense"...

Thus demonstrating the need for a thread where people express opinions that typically provoke other people to respond like assholes.

[roadworx]

9 hours ago, Fairen said:

I've recently started Sunlust, and it's really driven home to me how so many "hard!" WADs have no idea how to design challenging encounters that don't rely largely or entirely on closet/pop-in monsters.

 

It's even more amusing given that, rather than making fights less predictable, it becomes incredibly predictable when a level is going to pull a cheap nasty trick on you. The peak of this was Sunlust's MAP05: Gear Up, where by then you're used to the game dropping ambushes on you for even the most insignificant pick-ups—except in Gear Up, you have to trigger a bunch of ambushes over armour bonuses in order to complete the level, and if you aren't aware of this gimmick (because nothing in the level gives you any direct clue to this), you'll eventually waste a bunch of time wandering around because you don't want to bother with another cheap spawn-in just for a few points of armour.

wat

 

i...don't think you understand ribbiks maps. they're all about setpiece encounters - yeah, ofc it's gonna be predictable when a fight is gonna come, the point is that it's all about interesting combat geometry and figuring out strategies for fights (hence the term "combat puzzles"). what it's doing is giving you time to examine your surroundings. if you're not into that then you probably shouldn't be playing sunlust lol

 

if you wanna play a hard wad that has a lot of incidental encounters, then play deus vult

[Nine Inch Heels]

10 hours ago, Fairen said:

I've recently started Sunlust, and it's really driven home to me how so many "hard!" WADs have no idea how to design challenging encounters that don't rely largely or entirely on closet/pop-in monsters.

 I wasn't actually interested in dignifying this, but since you feel like throwing the A-word around, let me introduce you to "nih's perspective":

 

First of, you recently started SunLust, so you have no idea what else the megawad has to offer at this point. Therefore, knocking it as "cheap" because of a gimmick map you didn't like, and using that as a basis to scrutinize the genre of "hard maps" as a whole is a reach and a half. It's not even controversial, it's straight up unqualified ranting and/or venting.

 

Secondly, there are only so many ways to create ambushes or setpieces, regardless of how hard a map aims to be. Closets, (insta-popping) illusio-pits, pre-placed monsters, and teleporting monsters. That's all there is (ignoring IOS), and SunLust uses all these methods in nearly all of the maps. If you are aware of a fifth method, or have a wad of your own that somehow does it all better, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to have a look at it.

 

10 hours ago, Fairen said:

It's even more amusing given that, rather than making fights less predictable, it becomes incredibly predictable when a level is going to pull a cheap nasty trick on you.

Okay, so what's the problem then? Seems like you know what's going to happen, which is good, because it allows you to save the game before engaging in a tough fight.

 

10 hours ago, Fairen said:

The peak of this was Sunlust's MAP05: Gear Up, where by then you're used to the game dropping ambushes on you for even the most insignificant pick-ups—except in Gear Up, you have to trigger a bunch of ambushes over armour bonuses in order to complete the level, and if you aren't aware of this gimmick (because nothing in the level gives you any direct clue to this)

So... Gear up wasn't a tell at all? Pick up all the things, and gearing up, so you can finish the map. And each time you grab something to gear up the map responds, but nothing in that map provides any clues? And looking at the txt that comes with the WAD also contains no information at all? I'm not buying it...

 

Last but not least: There's a difference between controversial, and grating nonsense. Controversial is usually a topic for which there are opposing, albeit well-reasoned perspectives and sensible arguments. Grating nonsense is "I hate how this WAD does stuff, therefore all WADs that do this stuff are bad and stupid, and the mappers have no idea how to map"... See the difference..?

[NuMetalManiak]

-I still like Super Sonic Doom despite numerous glaring flaws.

-Hall maps > Romero maps > American maps > Petersen maps

On 5/24/2021 at 9:48 AM, Fairen said:

It's even more amusing given that, rather than making fights less predictable, it becomes incredibly predictable when a level is going to pull a cheap nasty trick on you. The peak of this was Sunlust's MAP05: Gear Up, where by then you're used to the game dropping ambushes on you for even the most insignificant pick-ups—except in Gear Up, you have to trigger a bunch of ambushes over armour bonuses in order to complete the level, and if you aren't aware of this gimmick (because nothing in the level gives you any direct clue to this), you'll eventually waste a bunch of time wandering around because you don't want to bother with another cheap spawn-in just for a few points of armour.

In other words you've become accustomed to seeing what could lie ahead, although even then you could still be surprised! Especially when you start playing on the higher skill settings. If things start to become predictable, try playing things differently (different skill setting, different path, etc). I love doing this. Makes things funner.

[Shepardus]

10 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I think this thread should either be buried deep in the bowels of post hell, never to see the light of day again, or it should be moved to "everything else"..

Hey, at least having a thread keeps the chaff (mostly) sealed within its confines so you know where not to look.

[roadworx]

15 minutes ago, NuMetalManiak said:

-Hall maps > Romero maps > American maps > Petersen maps

this is the correct order

 

srsly tho, it's good to see that i'm not the only one who loves tom hall maps :)

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

Hey, at least having a thread keeps the chaff (mostly) sealed within its confines so you know where not to look.

I get the idea, but it's not done a particularly good job at that lately, which is why I'd argue that it might as well be moved to a different subforum instead of taking up space here...

[roadworx]

3 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I get the idea, but it's not done a particularly good job at that lately, which is why I'd argue that it might as well be moved to a different subforum instead of taking up space here...

then new people would come in, not see this thread (cuz doom general is typically the first place they'll go), and then start a thread with their """hot""" take. it's best to have this here than not have it at all tbh

[Chip]

11 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I think some people here confuse "controversial" with "complete and utter nonsense"...

 

I think this thread should either be buried deep in the bowels of post hell, never to see the light of day again, or it should be moved to "everything else"..

I see what you mean, and I mostly agree, but as @roadworx said above, there would be a bunch of hot-take threads that would pop up randomly and after a while, it would drive everybody insane. I think that this thread should stay up just as some sort of dump of rants just so it won't make Doomworld just another form of doomscrolling social media. 

 

I've always wished that there was an unfollow thread option on Doomworld. Something where you could just ignore responses to threads. because even if you aren't following a thread, it's possible that somebody you follow comments on it and it shows up in your notifications. 

 

So in the end, I agree that this thread has become Post Hell worthy, but I'd personally rather have it here than see a bunch of threads pop up that rant on things you would see on Twitter or Facebook. 

[omx32x]

11 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I think some people here confuse "controversial" with "complete and utter nonsense"...

 

EDIT: Here's my controversial opinion:

 

I think this thread should either be buried deep in the bowels of post hell, never to see the light of day again, or it should be moved to "everything else"..

why? its still doom related after all is "post your controversial opinions about doom" not "post your controversial opinions"

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 minutes ago, Chip said:

I've always wished that there was an unfollow thread option on Doomworld. Something where you could just ignore responses to threads. because even if you aren't following a thread, it's possible that somebody you follow comments on it and it shows up in your notifications. 

 

So in the end, I agree that this thread has become Post Hell worthy, but I'd personally rather have it here than see a bunch of threads pop up that rant on things you would see on Twitter or Facebook. 

Aside of having derailed this for long enough, ultimately I can see why there's merit in having it, and sometimes there's actually some interesting stuff to read here during a coffee break, which is why I'm checking in here sporadically, notifications or not (different can of worms)... That said, I wish some of these "opinions" were less of a disguised attempt at bashing something while using the word "controversial" as a shield, hence I only check in from time to time... I think I've established what I believe the difference between "controversial" and "bashing" is in my book already, so I'll just leave it at that...

[galileo31dos01]

1 hour ago, NuMetalManiak said:

Why do people like you again?

 

Oh I have an answer! She is an excellent mapping/doom-in-general adviser, provides in-depth help when in need, and more of a personal thing but I like that she states her thoughts, views and responses in an unapologetic, honest and respectful manner without attacking or projecting anything into anyone for no reason, basically unlike this question I'm answering.

[Serum]

I don’t think metal music and MIDI/soundfonts mix or date well at all so I prefer almost any remaster with real instruments (e.g. IDKFA) to the actual OST

[Fairen]

7 hours ago, roadworx said:

i...don't think you understand ribbiks maps. they're all about setpiece encounters - yeah, ofc it's gonna be predictable when a fight is gonna come, the point is that it's all about interesting combat geometry and figuring out strategies for fights (hence the term "combat puzzles"). what it's doing is giving you time to examine your surroundings. if you're not into that then you probably shouldn't be playing sunlust lol

Okay, let's describe it this way:

 

Sunlust, if we're describing it as a "puzzle", is the equivalent of throwing all the pieces of a children's jigsaw puzzle in someone's face, demanding they put it together in fifteen seconds, then giving them the finger when they don't accomplish it.

 

Then you pick up the pieces and do it again, and lo and behold, the person manages it to put the puzzle together with no real problem.

 

Sunlust is not difficult if you approach everything from the "okay, something is obviously going to happen if I go here/pick this up, let's trigger it, okay that's what happens and this is how I need to react to it, reload" angle. The problem is when you get screwed over because you didn't already know what's going to happen. For example, hitting a switch and having a revenant pop up directly behind you and corner you—something which Sunlust does in an early map.

 

And there are plenty of challenging maps and WADs that don't rely on pop-in monsters constantly, and it's not simply one level in Sunlust or Sunlust alone that does this constantly. The last map in Hell Revealed I played (because it expected you to take on large groups of enemies on elevated positions in open areas with nothing but shotgun shells) drops a two-arch-vile monster closet on you...for picking up a regular shotgun.

 

But hey, if it makes you feel more hardcore and better than other players, then more power to the Doom Souls crowd—game design should be nothing but trial-and-error, right?

[Spectre01]

53 minutes ago, Fairen said:

Sunlust is not difficult if you approach everything from the "okay, something is obviously going to happen if I go here/pick this up, let's trigger it, okay that's what happens and this is how I need to react to it, reload" angle.

That's really not the case at all, especially with later maps where you need a good amount of mechanical skill as well as understanding of game mechanics to beat the tougher fights. Foreknowledge only gets you so far.

[Pseudonaut]

30 minutes ago, Fairen said:

Sunlust is not difficult if you approach everything from the "okay, something is obviously going to happen if I go here/pick this up, let's trigger it, okay that's what happens and this is how I need to react to it, reload" angle.

IDCLEV to map29 and try this method. Good luck.

 

31 minutes ago, Fairen said:

For example, hitting a switch and having a revenant pop up directly behind you and corner you—something which Sunlust does in an early map.

Here's how you can deal with a lone revenant while cornered, at about 1:30 in this video. Actually, I can't recall being unavoidably cornered by just one revenant when I played it. This sounds very much like something an experienced player could deal with while lacking foreknowledge.

 

 

[roadworx]

5 hours ago, Fairen said:

Okay, let's describe it this way:

 

Sunlust, if we're describing it as a "puzzle", is the equivalent of throwing all the pieces of a children's jigsaw puzzle in someone's face, demanding they put it together in fifteen seconds, then giving them the finger when they don't accomplish it.

 

Then you pick up the pieces and do it again, and lo and behold, the person manages it to put the puzzle together with no real problem.

 

Sunlust is not difficult if you approach everything from the "okay, something is obviously going to happen if I go here/pick this up, let's trigger it, okay that's what happens and this is how I need to react to it, reload" angle. The problem is when you get screwed over because you didn't already know what's going to happen. For example, hitting a switch and having a revenant pop up directly behind you and corner you—something which Sunlust does in an early map.

 

And there are plenty of challenging maps and WADs that don't rely on pop-in monsters constantly, and it's not simply one level in Sunlust or Sunlust alone that does this constantly. The last map in Hell Revealed I played (because it expected you to take on large groups of enemies on elevated positions in open areas with nothing but shotgun shells) drops a two-arch-vile monster closet on you...for picking up a regular shotgun.

 

But hey, if it makes you feel more hardcore and better than other players, then more power to the Doom Souls crowd—game design should be nothing but trial-and-error, right?

how condescending of you :)

 

first of all, there's plenty of people who can get through sunlust maps on first try, so saying it's trial and error because of your experience (which, might i add, is very little due to you being on like...map05) is just plain incorrect. it's called being quick to adapt to situations and having reflexes. if there's a clear, consistent strategy to the encounter (which sunlust has for nearly all encounters) and it's not just throwing an entire horde of enemies at you out of absolutely nowhere (which sunlust doesn't) then maybe, the problem has more to do with you not being good enough at the game to play sunlust. don't take that as an insult - i'm not good enough either.

 

maybe try these things called difficulty settings instead of trying to brute force your way through the wad and then whining about how it's trial and error when you can't play it without dying a whole bunch. either that, or don't play a wad that's many times harder than hell revealed.

 

maybe try being self-aware of your skill level instead of insisting that something is just bad cuz you're not good at it? it's fine if you're not good at something, i'm not great at it either, but don't blame everyone else for your failings

Edited May 25, 2021 by roadworx : originally a bit too harsh and mean-spirited

[snapshot]

17 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Doom 3's theme is actually really good.

That's not controversial, that's the truth

 

 

[SynthScoutWave]

Æons of Death was phenomenal and didn't deserve the hate it got. On a related note: Æons of Death is the millenial version of Brutal Doom - gameplay mod tweaking maps and hardening gameplay to the point levels not built around it can sometimes feel like shit.

 

The canon that the Doom Slayer is the "leveled-up" Doomguy is stupid and should have never been declared.